BBC: Ukraine sanctions imposed amid Kiev clashes

[Stadium-Armory]

Condemn, boycott and complain. But in the end, let Putin have his sphere of influence.

[visionary]

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukrainian-president-russia-ultimatum-crimea-20140302,0,6104716.story#axzz2uqKJrGhh

Ukraine's president says Russian forces issued ultimatum on Crimea
 

The Russian military set an ultimatum Sunday for Ukrainian army and navy units “to surrender weapons and leave their bases” in the Crimean peninsula, Ukraine’s acting president, Olexandr Turchinov, said in televised remarks.

 

According to Turchinov, the ultimatum demanded that the troops abandon their bases by 5 a.m. Sunday. But as of late afternoon, the Ukrainian military was still occupying the bases, although they were kept effectively confined to them by Russian troops blocking access.

 

Turchinev said the ultimatum came from the Russian military’s North Caucasus division. He said his efforts to speak about it with leaders in Moscow had been futile.

 

“Unfortunately, I couldn't get through to President [Vladimir] Putin, Premier [Dmitry] Medvedev or State Duma Chairman [sergei] Naryshkin,” Turchinov said.

 

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/chubarov-russian-invasion-of-crimea-is-threat-to-world-peace-security-338117.html

Chubarov: Russian invasion of Crimea is threat to world peace, security

 

Russia's invason of Crimea poses a new challenge to Ukraine's Tatars, an indigenous ethnic minority on the peninsula that returned to the nation in the 1980s after their deportation in the early 1940s by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin.

 

Refat Chubarov, chairman of the Mejlis, the representative body of Crimean Tatars, says he is afraid that Russians will accuse the ethnic group of being a threat to ethnic Russians. So he is asking Tatars to minimize their time in public and avoid confrontations.

 

Some Tatars, however, have done the opposite and formed their own self-defense units that patrol streets. These civic guards are unarmed and are multinational. “Their main task is to prevent provocations,” Chubarov said. 

 

 

https://twitter.com/vatamaniuk

Military registration and enlistment office today in Dnipro city, Eastern Ukraine  pic.twitter.com/QyEdKoZRU6

11:39 AM

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/dnp_david

BREAKING: Electricity cut off to Ukraine's naval base in Crimea, base is expecting an attack tonight, via @CNN live

4:09 PM

 

https://twitter.com/WilliamJHague UK FM

Have met a wide range of Ukrainian political leaders in Kyiv tonight. Violation of Ukraine's sovereignty unacceptable  

4:06 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt

US official says "Russian forces now have complete operational control of the Crimean peninsula."  

4:18 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/JohnKerry

I will be headed to Kyiv, Ukraine tomorrow night for discussions there Tuesday.

4:27 PM

 

https://twitter.com/joshrogin

U.S. cancelled USTR trade trip to Moscow, cancelled Russian visit on energy cooperation, will cancel upcoming joint Naval event. 

4:34 PM

 

https://twitter.com/ajamlive

Senior US official: US weighing steps to expedite US economic assistance to Ukraine in near future. http://alj.am/UkraineCrisis 

4:37 PM

 

https://twitter.com/MonicaTiberi

Europe divided over Russia: Germany and Italy against excluding Russia from G8. France and UK in favor, with the US. Putin laughs probably! 

4:40 PM

 

https://twitter.com/attackerman

Visa bans & targeted individual leader sanctions for Russians on deck if they don't leave Ukraine, says US administration official.

4:45 PM

 

[nonniey]

And an act of war, I would say. Blockading somebody's ports?

How so? They don't own the straights and it would entail no blockade. Turkey owns the straights and Turkey closed them in WWII to all belligerents. Just call Russia a belligerent as long as they occupy Crimea. Other straights have been closed to specific nations traffic in the past as well without it being an act of war.

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/Ukroblogger

Ukraine's Belbek Air Force Base under Russian attack; attackers aim for arms cache,use stun grenades

5:06 PM

 

https://twitter.com/EastOfBrussels

Ukraine: BREAKING acc. to Pravda(UA) Russia invaders started storming ammunition depots in Simferopol, Crimea.

5:07 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

For all that we can do to Russia, don't you think Russia thru it's allies could do some things to us.

 

Russia could ask China to call in on their debt their own.  Russia or one of their allies could launch

an emp attack on the U.S. and then hit us with their nukes. 

 

Putin is a hard liner in the old soviet style and nothing more would his day than bringing the U.S. to it's knees.

[Larry]

Uh, 2000,

 

I don't think Russia and China are exactly "allies". 

[visionary]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-standoff

Ukraine crisis: 'We won't give up without a fight'

 

The Russians arrived at the base early in the morning with a blunt message: give up your weapons within the hour or face the consequences. But the elite Ukrainian battalion, based outside the Crimean town of Feodosia, told them politely but firmly to get lost.

 

"We gave an oath to the state of Ukraine, not an oath to one particular general, and certainly not one from another country," Major Rostislav Lomtev told the Guardian from inside the base. The Russians duly disappeared. But not for long. They would be back later. The resolution to this standoff remains precariously inconclusive.

At Feodosia, where the Guardian was given exclusive access to the inside of the base, the marines created a small barricade of tyres and barbed wire at the entrance to the base after the Russian ultimatum in the morning, and built another barricade of sandbags in front of the main entrance of the two-storey white stone headquarters.

 

Outside, a group of Russians gathered, waving Russian and Crimean flags. Appropriating the tropes of the Kiev anti-government protests, women handed out tea and sandwiches, and people sang songs to the accompaniment of an accordion. The mood was positive, with chants of "Russia! Russia!" but there was an undercurrent of aggression, especially when a group of the Russians discovered a western reporter in their midst.

 

There were also three armoured personnel carriers and several dozen troops standing guard. They had been here for days, despite the Kremlin only voting to send troops in on Saturday. They are, if the Russian version of events is to be believed, the best-equipped local volunteer brigades in the world.

 

But it would take an extraordinarily naive person to believe that. The troops may not wear insignia on their uniforms, but they arrived in trucks with Russian military plates and are well armed. Privately, the commanders admitted to Ukrainian troops that they were Russian regular troops. Given that some of them were personally acquainted, there was not much point in hiding it.

 

As Major Lomtev in Feodosia put it: "We know a lot of them, because we have done a lot of joint exercises together and have close links with them. To be honest, I don't think they are very proud of the orders they are carrying out at the moment."

[Larry]

Didn't we used to have a policy of not allowing Russia to just invade and take over places?

[Destino]

The alternative to the UN would be direct actions by countries as they deem necessary.

If the alternative was no international group, sure that would be true. I'd like to point out however that Russia is currently doing exactly that despite the UN. I'm sure they'll veto any attempts to issue a strongly word letter.

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis

G7 leaders full statement on Ukraine via the White House pic.twitter.com/6o5C9LF3HP

7:38 PM

 

US, UK, France, Canada, Italy, Germany, and Japan all condemn Russia's actions and suspend G8 summit preparations.

[Larry]

If the alternative was no international group, sure that would be true. I'd like to point out however that Russia is currently doing exactly that despite the UN. I'm sure they'll veto any attempts to issue a strongly word letter.

Pointing out that I don't recall us letting the UN stop us from invading Iraq.

Hard to get all that outraged, after that one.

[Larry]

Part of me wishes we WOULD go to war over it. Be nice to be the Good Guy again.

Desert Storm really felt good.

Granted, Russia's just a bit tougher than Saddam, though.

I know that starting a war over thus wouldn't be the smart thing. But I sure do miss being The Good Guys. Maybe we never really were. But I THOUGHT we were.

[88Comrade2000]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/russia-vladimir-putin-the-west-104134.html#.UxPZs4V1N8E

[bearrock]

I wonder which is worse between US actions in second Iraq and Russian actions in Ukraine?

US tried a lot harder to work within the international framework and even towards the lead up to war, Bush administration tried to maintain an argument that prior UN resolutions and sanctions justified military action. But certainly damage and destruction was a lot more than Georgia or Ukraine so far.

Russia, though, man, they're not even trying. It's like, we're just gonna take this land, who's gonna stop us?

[Larry]

I like to point at what I think us a clear moral distinction between the US actions and Russia.

We leave.

After Desert Storm, we owned Kuwait. And we handed the country back to its government, and we left.

I know we haven't 100% left Iraq, this time. But I don't think anybody can claim that were in charge.

I think it's a pretty important distinction.

[JMS]

 

REU: GERMAN GOVT SPOX SAYS PUTIN ACCEPTED MERKEL PROPOSAL FOR “FACT-FINDING MISSION”, POSSIBLY LED BY OSCE, TO START POLITICAL DIALOGUE 

3:28 PM

 

 

 

That's HUGE.   That's the beginning of this thing ratcheting down.    That Putin has allowed a fact finding mission to move forward is what everybody has been asking for since the beginning of this thing including the Ukrainians....   This is a positive sign.

[visionary]

Maybe...facts can be manipulated and made up, as Russia Today and other Putin mouthpieces prove.

But if there really is going to be a fact finding missing with international diplomats on the ground, it would seem like it would make it harder for an invasion.

 

But there hasn't been a lot of mention of this anywhere except from Germany earlier.

It's unclear what was agreed to (assuming it wasn't a misinterpretation) or when it would happen.

[JMS]

In addition to protecting Russia's ports, if some agreement were made that neither NATO nor Russia would have a military base/presence in Ukraine/Crimea, that might pacify all parties.  Russia would have to give up its base in exchange for a pact that NATO will not set up shop there.

 

So Russia already has a long term lease on their bases in Ukraine ( until 2042) ...  and prior to last week the Ukrainian government and people didn't really have a problem with Russia having those bases.

 

The problem with these treaties and pledges is Putin doesn't honor them,  aka the Budapest Memorandum he's currently violating...  I don't think Putin put's much stock in such things..   At least not when he thinks he has an option to avoid doing so.

[visionary]

Apparently Jared Leto gave a shout out to "The Ukraine" in his Oscar speech...

[JMS]

Maybe...facts can be manipulated and made up, as Russia Today and other Putin mouthpieces prove.

But if there really is going to be a fact finding missing with international diplomats on the ground, it would seem like it would make it harder for an invasion.

 

But there hasn't been a lot of mention of this anywhere except from Germany earlier.

It's unclear what was agreed to (assuming it wasn't a misinterpretation) or when it would happen.

 

Germany is the largest economy in Europe.   I think Putin's realizing this thing is going to come down to punitive Economic moves and he's already demonized the US..  He's trying to play nice cop with Germany...   Only Merkle is from east Germany,  I think she's more pro Ukraine and warry of Russia than we are....

 

I also think it's important to note,  it doesn't matter how the "fact finding mission" turns out.   If a minority is being repressed or abused in a neighboring country there are diplomatic things to be done.   It doesn't give you the right to invade and annex...   Or invade and hold succession elections.    That's the first point.   The second point is there is no evidence prior to the invasion any Russian native speakers were being abused.     Russia agreeing to a German proposal for fact finders is the first step in backing down.   It is a positive step which leads only to this thing ratcheting down.

Apparently Jared Leto gave a shout out to "The Ukraine" in his Oscar speech...

 

Too bad Russian TV decided not to show the Oscars in protest to America's provocative moves in Ukraine..

 

( got that from one of your posts...)..

[Larry]

Hope you're right.

[Kindred]

So Russia already has a long term lease on their bases in Ukraine ( until 2042) ...  and prior to last week the Ukrainian government and people didn't really have a problem with Russia having those bases.

 

The problem with these treaties and pledges is Putin doesn't honor them,  aka the Budapest Memorandum he's currently violating...  I don't think Putin put's much stock in such things..   At least not when he thinks he has an option to avoid doing so.

 

Perhaps as long as Russia believed it had a pro Russia puppet regime in power, it was secure, but with the new pro west Govt in place, it could have viewed this as a threat to it's security interests, especially if the new govt shifted into the Nato fold.

[visionary]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/02/inside-obama-s-plans-for-economic-war-on-russia.html

Inside Obama’s Plans to Squeeze Russia

 

The Obama administration is working around the clock to come up with ways to punish Vladimir Putin for invading Ukraine. But will any of them work?

 

Behind the scenes, Obama administration officials are preparing a series of possible battle plans for a potential economic assault on Russia in response to its invasion of Ukraine, an administration source close to the issue told The Daily Beast. Among the possible targets for these financial attacks: everyone from high-ranking Russian military officials to government leaders to top businessmen to Russian-speaking separatists in Ukraine. It’s all part of the work to prepare an executive order now under consideration at the Obama administration’s highest levels.

 

The Obama administration came under sharp criticism over the weekend for not responding quickly or strongly enough to the takeover of the Ukrainian province of Crimea. Meanwhile, a team of State Department, White House, and Treasury Department officials worked to provide the president a menu of sanctions and other economic pressure levers that Obama might add to that executive order..

Part of the delay in devising the list of sanctions and making a decision is due to the fact that the Obama administration was caught by surprise last Friday when Russian paramilitary forces entered Crimea and began taking control of airports and other key infrastructure. The administration had prepared sanctions against Yanokovich and his allies, but those plans were quickly taken over by events on the ground when Yanukovich was deposed. Further changes on the ground could change the sanctions plan again.

 

The other reason the sanctions are taking some time is because the administration is required to build an evidentiary basis for each sanction it wishes to impose. For an executive order, for example, the president must make a finding that the crisis constitutes a grave threat to American national security. Administration sources said that shouldn’t be a problem and past findings have been made following lesser provocations.

 

“The expectation that this is going to change in 24 hours, that’s not real world,” a third senior administration official said. “This is a serious situation that the Russians have created, it’s going to take serious efforts to unwind it, and we are absolutely seriously engaged in the effort to do that.”

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/world/europe/pressure-rising-as-obama-works-to-rein-in-russia.html?referrer

Pressure Rising as Obama Works to Rein in Russia

 

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. “In another world,” she said.

But Mr. Obama offered Russia what aides called an “offramp,” a face-saving way out of the crisis, by proposing that European observers take the place of Russian forces in Crimea to guard against the supposed threats to the Russian-speaking population cited by the Kremlin as justification for its intervention.

 

Mr. Obama’s aides said that they saw no evidence of such threats and considered the claim a bogus pretext, and that they wanted to call Mr. Putin’s bluff. Privately, they said they did not expect Mr. Putin to accept, and they conceded that Mr. Obama probably could not reverse the occupation of Crimea in the short term. They said they were focusing on blocking any further Russian move into eastern Ukraine that would split the country in half.

[JMS]

Perhaps as long as Russia believed it had a pro Russia puppet regime in power, it was secure, but with the new pro west Govt in place, it could have viewed this as a threat to it's security interests, especially if the new govt shifted into the Nato fold.

 

Yes,  I think that's exactly it.  Russia saw EU membership for Ukraine and perhaps even NATO membership as unavoidable.

[JMS]

They said they were focusing on blocking any further Russian move into eastern Ukraine that would split the country in half.

That is the big thing now...   Russia's got 16 thousand guys in Crimea and that gives him operational control of that region.   Crimea is a done deal.   Now what seems to be going on is pro Russian factions,  some actually from Russia, are storming into the government buildings in the east and dragging the Ukrainians out of the buildings and beating them up.   Then they are raising the Russian flag over these buildings.    If the Ukraine reacts,  then Russia has the proof the needs to say Ukraine is persecuting ethnic Russians and the 120,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's boarders come marching in.    What happened in Crimea happens in the entire eastern part of Ukraine which is all ethnic Russian majority.

 

If we get the western observers in there then that defuses this danger and we may have averted a blood bath, and have a little breathing room to let the diplomacy take it's course.