BBC: Ukraine sanctions imposed amid Kiev clashes

[Larry]

You have to hand it to him.. He's a bold guy....

Goes back to something Merkle said of Putin when they talked last... She told Obama that Putin was in his own reality.. out of touch with our reality.

 

Another parallel with the GOP. 

 

(Sorry.  Thread really needs some humor.) 

[JMS]

LOL some Reuters reporter asked about the Budapest memorandum and Putin seemed caught off guard.

BBC Analyst said that now that 7 of the G8 have pulled out of the Russian hosted summit..

(as you posted) Putin said he's going to hold the talks away and the other 7 are still invited..

The Russians are calling it the G1 summit. I thought that was funny.

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/mike_giglio

Then these guys showed up pic.twitter.com/ogmpHo0nvm

6:36 AM

 

Ukrainian commander now negotiating with masked Russian man at besieged air base in Crimea pic.twitter.com/0BCP58cej5

6:43 AM

 

Surreal. Journalists face down masked Russian men at besieged Ukrainian air base in Crimea. pic.twitter.com/qm20q7Y8Nv

6:45 AM

 

For the record the people I described as masked Russian men said they were from Sevastopol and here for "peace" 

6:48 AM

 

Marching away from the Russians pic.twitter.com/FyDVXPUipZ

6:51 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

video of some of the stuff going on at the base

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCNwQKhgo7M

 

 

https://twitter.com/jancienski

Kiev reasserts control in east. Lots of police in Kharkiv. Anti-gov't demos gone from Lenin monument. Tighter control on Rus border 

6:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'm going to try to get some sleep.

[JMS]

Most of the inward investment in the UK from Russia though is in property (domestic and retail) and is mainly in London.

Cheese Grater?

 

[Slateman]

"Corporal at besieged Ukrainian air base in Crimea: "It doesn't matter if I'm afraid or not. There are only two ways for this to end.

5:15 AM"

 

I would go to war with that man every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[JMS]

Visionary,  This was a pretty rare press conference for the Russian leader.   I'm wondering if you sensed Putin was a little on edge by the unified  front being shown to Russia from the West.   Seemed to me he was on edge,  trying to be charming, and excuse his actions as totally reasonable and the west as unreasonable.   Which to me seems like more horse hockey...  He's not foolling anybody in the west by his claims.    I don't think he's even fooling people in Russia.    If he's feeling the heat now...  What's he going to be feeling in the coming days / weeks / months when the sanctions start to come more into focus and start to bite?

 

Now Putin is saying he has no troops in Crimea, and the 16000 uniformed soldiers who appeared there over night getting off planes and such, are some sort of local militia..  That's just nuts.

[Larry]

Hey, maybe the Masked Men are "Not Russian". 

[MartinC]

Cheese Grater?

 

 

Not aware of that one - have you seen the Gurkin? Put them together and you have the start of a decent sandwich ...

 

 

 

"Corporal at besieged Ukrainian air base in Crimea: "It doesn't matter if I'm afraid or not. There are only two ways for this to end.

5:15 AM"

 

I would go to war with that man every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

Hold that thought .....

[Stadium-Armory]

We have never had a defense treaty with Taiwan..   President George W. Bush made a statement about an American commitment to defend Taiwan, but he did so in error, and was quickly corrected by the white house spokesman.

For the record, we did, but it was annulled by Jimmy Carter in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-American_Mutual_Defense_Treaty

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It's pretty amazing to me that Putin is saying those troops aren't his. 

[88Comrade2000]

Sanctions have to be coordinated to be effective.  It doesn't matter if the US cut's off Russia's credit if Germany extends them credit.  I think sanctions can be very very meaningful if the West is willing to commit and put up with the collateral damage.   Germany get's 30% of it's natural gas from Russia.    France has many millions of dollars worth of arms yet to be delivered to Russia she will have to eat.   UK is a primary benefactor of Russian investment dollars.    To freeze Russia's assets will cost the west..  

 

That's why I don't see anything happening.   Putin knows the EU countries  would lose to much if they severly sanctioned Russia.  I see any sanctions as for show but in reality it will be business of usual.

 

The Russia people are used to hardships; so if the west were to completely cut Russia off to make it suffer; they would survive. They would have other sources to help them out if needed.  The biggest thing, Russia still has the military and they still have some nukes.

 

 

 

AS for Tiawan, I really thought we did have a treaty.  Always, seeing the GOP babbling about that when things tense up with China.

[grhqofb5]

Another parallel with the GOP. 

 

(Sorry.  Thread really needs some humor.) 

 

I'd say its more of a parallel with North Korea. But much better weaponry.

[Ellis]

Wow.  Putin definitely blinked.

[JMS]

It's pretty amazing to me that Putin is saying those troops aren't his. 

 

Putin said in his press conference that he had no troops in Ukraine.    I think we misunderstood him.   I think he meant that Russia had no Troops in eastern Ukraine.   I think Putin has already moved on and doesn't consider Crimea part of Ukraine.    Nothing else makes sense,  clearly he has the entire black sea fleet in Crimea even if he disavows the 16,000 some odd masked troops.

Wow.  Putin definitely blinked.

 

No I think Putin always coveted the Crimean... not eastern Ukraine.   He's pushing back from the table with that which he most wanted, and patting himself on the back for avoiding a blood bath.   Eastern Ukraine is just the carrot which he's trying to get the west to forget the fact he invaded a sovereign country and cut away that which Russia most coveted.   The Crimea.   The Crimea after all has the important Russian Naval base as well as the commanding outlet to the sea which Russia's other most important black sea port must navigate through.

 

Now Putin is going to see if he can split off some of the European allies away from a unified front on sanctions...  He's saying.. Germany,  look I'm not as bad as your worst nightmare...  let me just have Crimea and we will go business as usual...   Let's have a G2 summit!!   What's Crimea really worth to Europe.

[Larry]

Sounds a little like Saddam saying he doesn't have troops in Kuwait, they're in "New Iraq".

Lots of images, to this event, that just make me go "WTF?"

I mean, armed and armored troops, surrounding a military base, and demanding that the soldiers inside the base surrender, isn't a declaration of war?

And then the troops, in said base, coming out, negotiating, and trying not to throw the first punch, because their weapons are in a warehouse? (I assume, elsewhere?).

[JMS]

I mean, armed and armored troops, surrounding a military base, and demanding that the soldiers inside the base surrender, isn't a declaration of war?

 

It's certainly an act of war..   Although Russia's claim is the democratically elected President of the Ukraine requested their troops.

 

Anyway Ukraine doesn't want a war they can't possible win.   Russia doesn't want a war if she can take whatever she wants without one.

 

You have to remember all the Ukrainian and Russian officers here were probable once in the same Soviet Military.   They might even know each other from those days, or have discussed their joint history..    They are kind of like family.   Same doctrine,  same equipment,  a lot of the same history.   We are lucky that and good discipline has helped us avoid a shooting war so far..    Now we get down to the real war...  The diplomatic war which will decide if Russia keeps Crimea.

[Larry]

Yeah, there was a quote on here, a ways back, from one of the Ukrainian soldiers, along the lines of "They don;t want to kill us.  They might want to bring their families here, on vacation." 

 

Still, if I'm in the Ukrainian Army, the thought has to occur to me that I just allowed my country to be conquered without firing a shot. In fact, without me even getting my weapons out of storage. 

 

Might want to schedule some training on the subject of maintaining readiness. 

[visionary]

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2014/mar/222862.htm

Reply to the Statement of the Russian Federation on Ukraine at the Special Meeting of the Permanent Council

 

Victoria Nuland Assistant Secretary, Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs

 

Vienna, Austria

March 3, 2014

 

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Because Ambassador Kelin’s remarks were intermittently addressed to us, I thought it best to respond immediately to the parallel reality that was presented here to the situation that the vast majority of the rest of the delegations here see in Ukraine.

 

First and foremost, the assertion that EU nations or the United States “pushed an Association Agreement on Ukraine”: Just to correct the record there, it was President Yanukovich’s own choice to seek association with the European Union. We were at the time supporting the choice of the freely elected government of Ukraine in seeking association with the European Union, but it was very much a European Union project. And it was President Yanukovich who pursued that policy for six months, including seeking some 18 conforming pieces of legislation approved in the Rada, and only one week before Vilnius stepped back from that. So I don’t know how anyone can speak of the United States or anybody else “pushing” that choice on Ukraine.

 

Second, we were supporters of the February 21st Agreement: We commended the work done by France, Germany and Poland to mediate and negotiate that agreement, with Russia very much in observance, and we would have been prepared to support its completion. But it was President Yanukovich who chose not to sign the first piece of action pursued in the Rada, the changing of the constitution pursuant to the agreement. Not only did he not sign it, but he left the city – he fled the city – packing himself and his family up, and left the seat of the presidency vacant for two days, during which time the democratically elected Rada nearly unanimously voted him out of office, including every single member of his own party turning against him. So, from where we’re sitting, there is no way a person who takes those decisions can be considered still the legitimate leader of his country.

 

Third, the notion that the current government in Kyiv is “illegitimate”: Yes, the vast majority of representatives in the government are either from a small handful of political parties or from civil society, many of them having never served in government before, and representing broad constituencies across Ukraine. But that is not because this government does not have broad political support across the spectrum and across the country – in fact, the government was voted in with a very, very broad mandate, including from the Party of Regions, from the independents, from the Communists. However, those parties chose not to accept invitations to participate in government; they’ve publicly explained that they want to distance themselves from having to clean up the mess that Yanukovich left, and they want to run on their own platforms in the May 25th election. So, it is incorrect and inaccurate to assert that either nations of the West destroyed the February 21st Agreement, or that the current government is illegitimate – it was elected into office by a very broad mandate from a democratically elected parliament and was the result of President Yanukovich fleeing the scene.

 

Last point – aggression, intervention, who’s responsible for violence: From where we sit, there is no way to justify a deployment of some six-to-eight thousand troops, all across the Crimean Peninsula, effectively taking operational control of all of the ground of Crimea, including ground troops, airborne troops, tanks. There was no situation on the ground anywhere in Ukraine to justify unilateral military action of this kind. Once you go down the road as an OSCE State of asking your parliament to justify military intervention in anybody else’s country, where does it end?

 

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/nato-responds-to-ukraine-crisis-with-rigorous-and-on-going-assessment

NATO Responds to Ukraine Crisis With 'Rigorous and On-Going Assessment '

 

The North Atlantic Council has met at Poland's request to hold consultations within the framework of Article 4 of the Washington Treaty , which states that "the parties will consult whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence, or security of any of the parties is threatened."

Despite repeated calls by the international community, Russia continues to violate Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to violate its international commitments.

These developments present serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro‑Atlantic area.

Allies stand together in the spirit of strong solidarity in this grave crisis.

We undertake to pursue and intensify our rigorous and on-going assessment of the implications of this crisis for Alliance security, in close coordination and consultation.

We continue to support all constructive efforts for a peaceful solution to the current crisis in accordance with international law. We welcome the ongoing efforts undertaken by the United Nations, the European Union, the OSCE and the Council of Europe.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/the-anatomy-of-a-standoff-in-crimea

The Anatomy Of A Standoff In Crimea

 

At besieged bases around Crimea, the standoffs between Ukrainian and Russian troops are the front lines of a raging psychological war. This is what happened when one commander decided to fight back.

 

Russia’s psychological war over the Crimean peninsula has taken many turns in the days since its unmarked forces surrounded the airports and military bases here, from naval blockades and ultimatums for surrender to threats of war from Russian President Vladimir Putin himself.

 

But the front lines are the standoffs that have become a regular feature at besieged bases around Crimea — in which out-gunned Ukrainian soldiers stare down the Russian forces who hope to intimidate them into leaving so they can win Crimea without firing a shot.

 

On Tuesday morning, one commander decided to turn the tables on the Russians and fight back.

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/MarquardtA

Ukraine troops in earlier standoff have just arrived back at Belbek base to applause from wives.

7:13 AM

 

Ukraine officer who returned from standoff: "Negotiations continued on and on and then the commander decided we should go back for lunch. 

7:58 AM

 

Massive Russian convoy just passed through checkpoint toward Sevastopol. 40+ vehicles, all with Russian license plates w/ "21".

1:16 PM

 

After Russians in two places aimed their guns at us today, happy to show some love for the home team.… http://instagram.com/p/lIW0a9Ajbl/   

1:21 PM

 

 

[daveakl]

Strong response: Turkey sent eight F-16s to intercept Russian spy plane flying near its coast atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosour… pic.twitter.com/6ZoJjLwfnf

Natosource tweet

Sorry. Posting from phone.

[visionary]

um....now Putin thinks they're North Korea?

 

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

REU: RUSSIA TEST-FIRES INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILE - RIA CITES DEFENCE MINISTRY

1:54 PM

 

 

 

This is an important time for Ukraine. Positive discussions today with legitimate Acting PM & President in Kyiv. pic.twitter.com/MsuWXsiBvO

1:50 PM

 

 

 

 

 

In Kiev

 

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-local-forces-crimea-russian-military-20140304,0,41184.story#axzz2v1OdHuvt

Some 'local' forces in Crimea look a lot like Russian military
 

As Russian leader Vladimir Putin publicly insisted Tuesday that Russian troops had never seized or blocked any facilities in Ukraine's Crimea, a tense standoff continued between a Ukrainian army unit and a group of well-armed, Russian-speaking forces at a military airport in the southern part of the Crimean peninsula.

 

The gunmen, dressed in unmarked military uniforms that appeared identical to those used by the Russian army, had captured the Belbek airport near here along with three dozen combat jets and an arsenal of weapons belonging to the Ukrainian military.

At a news conference in Moscow, Putin had been asked why there were forces in Crimea dressed in Russian-style military uniforms. “Go to a store here and you can buy any uniform," he said. "Those were local self-defense forces.”

 

But Ukraine army Lt. Col. Oleh Shapoval, deputy commander of the unit attempting to protect the Belbek airport, scoffed at the Russian president’s remarks, noting that what Putin called “local self-defense forces” had landed at the Belbeck airstrip over the weekend in eight Russian IL-76 jumbo jets.

 

He added, sarcastically, that they must have gone to “a store here” to buy Russian military vehicles, Russian Kalashnikov rifles and Dragunov sniper rifles, RGD-5 and Mukha grenade launchers, Utes machine guns, Igla portable anti-aircraft missiles “and a bunch of other Russian arms.”

 

As he spoke, members of his unit were arrayed in front of the airport controlled and guarded by the gunmen in unmarked uniforms. The road to the airstrip was blocked by a Russian combat vehicle and two Russian military trucks, all with Russian army license plates.

 

 

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katherinemiller/insane-moments-from-rts-coverage-of-the-russian-invasion-of

14 Insane Moments From RT’s Coverage Of The Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

 

On Saturday, Russian forces effectively seized the Ukrainian region of Crimea. Formerly known as Russia Today, RT is a Kremlin-funded television network. Its U.S. version, RT America, is carried in the United States by Comcast, Verizon FiOS, Time Warner Cable, and other providers. (Larry King actually has a show on RT, if you’ve wondered where he went.) We decided to watch RT to see how it covered the news.

 

[visionary]

More on the missile

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

RIA: Russia test-fired RS-12M Topol ICBM missile from southerly Astrakhan region near Caspian Sea

2:06 PM

 

RIA: Dummy warhead on ICBM test-fired by Russia hit its intended target at proving ground in Kazakhstan

2:07 PM

 

[JMS]

I remember during the US Yougoslavian intervention in the Kosovo War.   When our troops went into Kosovo,  Russia sent paratroopers to occupy the Pristina Airport.    We surrounded the airport and there was a tense stand off.    I remember the goal of the Russian troop movement was to get the US / NATO to agree to a partition arrangement like that done in Germany after WWII.    NATO said,  forget it knowing they would be agreeing to a nearly perminent partition if they did agree.

 

I remember the chatter from the Russian government was,  why doesn't the west fear us any longer?  Eventually it turned out the Russian paratroopers didn't have food or water for a siege and were asking our troops for supplies...  Which we of coarse gave them one meal at a time.   Eventually Russia realized the futility and gave up their demands for their own autonomous sector of Kosovo....

 

I get the same thing going on here.  Russia is trying to be it's most intimidating.   The West isn't intimidated...   The winning argument for Russia is to focus on the economic pain sanctions will cause in Europe.   The intimidation angle Russia has going on isn't scaring anybody in NATO.   Actually I think it detracts from the anti sanctions argument by convincing countries like Germany and Italy Russia needs to be dealt with before they get even bolder.

[JMS]

 

 

Hey where is Seagal now?   I think we might have a job for him..

 

My biggest problem with hiring Seagal to liberate Crimea is he doesn't run like a man.   He runs like a third grade girl... If mobility becomes an issue here Seagal isn't our man.    Other than that he's a B. A.

 

You know Russia can't use him.   With his signature running style every Male over the age of 40 in the west will know who he is right off;  even if he were wearing a mask.

[daveakl]

Does anyone else feel like this is Putins last stand?

Coming off the Olympics and leading into the G8 it would show that he had positioned Russia as the leader in sports (most medals), a top 8 economic power, and a military so mighty that everyone would cower at their feet.

When the Ukrainian soldiers did not bow down and the situation drew out to the point it is now it all blew up in his face.

Now he is trying to flex his military muscle with missile launches, spy plane flyovers, war drills and yet it's still not working.

[visionary]

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/international/537858-ukraine-makes-first-contacts-with-russia-to-avert-war

Ukraine makes first contacts with Russia to avert war

 

KIEV - Ukraine's interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said on Tuesday that his government had made the first "timid" contacts with Russian leaders aimed at resolving the crisis in his ex-Soviet state.

 

The dramatic announcement came four days after President Vladimir Putin won parliament's authorization to use force against Russia's neighbor in response to three months of protests that swept pro-Kremlin leaders from power and installed a new Western-backed team in charge.

 

There was no immediate response from Russia to Yatsenyuk's comments and the Ukranian premier himself stood firmly behind his government's decision to distance itself from Moscow's rule.

 

But the contacts came in the midst of a visit to Kiev by US Secretary of State John Kerry and appeared to reflect combined efforts by Washington and its European allies to prevent an all-out confrontation from flaring up on Europe's eastern edge.

 

"So far, [the talks] have been rather timid. But the first steps have been made," Yatsenyuk said in a statement issued after he and interim president Oleksandr Turchynov met Kerry during the US diplomat's first visit to Ukraine since the political crisis first erupted in November.

 

https://twitter.com/mpoppel

REU: U.S. RECEIVED PROPER RUSSIAN NOTIFICATION AHEAD OF ITS ICBM TEST-FIRE -U.S. OFFICIAL TELLS REUTERS 

2:39 PM

 

REU: INITIAL RUSSIAN NOTIFICATION OF PLANS FOR ICBM TEST-FIRE PRE-DATED CRIMEA CRISIS -U.S. OFFICIAL 

2:42 PM

Either weird timing, or the US is trying to downplay it.

 

https://twitter.com/IvanCNN

Ukrainian warship "Hetman Saraidachny" steamed thru Istanbul's Bosphorus to Black Sea hours behind 2 Russian warships pic.twitter.com/Y4kPjfOsLa

2:41 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/BSpringnote

Kerry paying respects to the fallen on Institutska street today euromaidan pic.twitter.com/BmH7fUhRoy

2:47 PM