Larry Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 But Ukraine army Lt. Col. Oleh Shapoval, deputy commander of the unit attempting to protect the Belbek airport, scoffed at the Russian president’s remarks, noting that what Putin called “local self-defense forces” had landed at the Belbeck airstrip over the weekend in eight Russian IL-76 jumbo jets. He added, sarcastically, that they must have gone to “a store here” to buy Russian military vehicles, Russian Kalashnikov rifles and Dragunov sniper rifles, RGD-5 and Mukha grenade launchers, Utes machine guns, Igla portable anti-aircraft missiles “and a bunch of other Russian arms.” As he spoke, members of his unit were arrayed in front of the airport controlled and guarded by the gunmen in unmarked uniforms. The road to the airstrip was blocked by a Russian combat vehicle and two Russian military trucks, all with Russian army license plates. Remember, decades ago, I was a reader of National Lampoon. Their magazine featured a fake newspaper, inside the magazine. One article from that newspaper stuck in my head so well that I pretty much memorized it, and it pops into my head every time there's something like this. (Which, IMO, is far too often.) Ugandan dictator Idi Amin announced today that 1,400 Ugandan dissidents had died in a four month long "bus crash". When asked about the reports of anonymous witnesses that the bodies were riddled with bullets, President Amin observed that it was very dangerous to be cleaning automatic weapons in a moving vehicle. International watchdog organization Amnesty International has announced that they intend to investigate. President Amin is quoted as saying "The **** they will". Does anyone else feel like this is Putins last stand? Coming off the Olympics and leading into the G8 it would show that he had positioned Russia as the leader in sports (most medals), a top 8 economic power, and a military so mighty that everyone would cower at their feet. When the Ukrainian soldiers did not bow down and the situation drew out to the point it is now it all blew up in his face. Now he is trying to flex his military muscle with missile launches, spy plane flyovers, war drills and yet it's still not working. I think that when the entire Ukrainian Army is sitting in their barracks, unarmed, surrounded by Russian soldiers who are armed, and have air and naval support, and are receiving reinforcements and resupply, then it's just a teensy premature to be declaring the Russians defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think that when the entire Ukrainian Army is sitting in their barracks, unarmed, surrounded by Russian soldiers who are armed, and have air and naval support, and are receiving reinforcements and resupply, then it's just a teensy premature to be declaring the Russians defeated. That speaks more to my point. It seems Putin thought that the people would welcome big brother Russia back and those loyal to the Ukraine would tuck tail and go back to the Western portion of the country. Instead they are standing firm in the face of insurmountable odds. His bluff was called and now his next move is very tricky. Walk away and he looks weak. Fire first and the whole world turns on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Either weird timing, or the US is trying to downplay it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idfv6a2ampo#t=27 This isn't a blockade... this is language... This is a vocabulary...the likes the world has never seen. This is Putin talking to Obama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 That speaks more to my point. It seems Putin thought that the people would welcome big brother Russia back and those loyal to the Ukraine would tuck tail and go back to the Western portion of the country. Instead they are standing firm in the face of insurmountable odds. His bluff was called and now his next move is very tricky. Walk away and he looks weak. Fire first and the whole world turns on him. He already HAS fired first. He fired first when he ordered his troops into somebody else's country. That's a pretty big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 He already HAS fired first. He fired first when he ordered his troops into somebody else's country. That's a pretty big deal. It's a big deal sure, but it's their sphere of influence. Same as with Georgia, except Georgia fired shots at Russia and he could craft an argument that he had no choice. Ukraine has stared the Russian troops down but has not fired a single shot, not said the wrong thing to inflame the situation, just stood there and waited. Now Putin has painted himself into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://mashable.com/2014/03/04/russia-crimea-ukraine-shots/#:eyJzIjoidCIsImkiOiJfN3Mwazk1cm9tczA4ODRmMHFqZWVjeXdndnRfIn0 Russian Soldiers to Ukrainian Troops: 'We Have Orders to Shoot' Russian soldiers on Tuesday fired warning shots at a group of Ukrainian soldiers who marched unarmed toward their heavily equipped counterparts in an attempt to reclaim their airbase that had been seized a day earlier.The column of some 100 Ukrainian military pilots, led by Col. Yuli Mamchur, stopped their advance at Pokryshkin airbase in Belbek, in Ukraine's Crimea region, only after the Russians trained their rifles on the group. The soldiers remained there — under the close watch of Russian elite forces armed with machine guns rifles and mortars and blocked by military jeeps — throughout the afternoon as negotiations between Mamchur and a man known only as "Roman" took place behind Russian lines. They [Russian soldiers] told us: ‘Stop. Do not come closer. We have orders to shoot,’” said Andriy Matchenko, deputy head of logistics for the Belbek. “They said they would shoot at our legs if they needed to stop us.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 That speaks more to my point. It seems Putin thought that the people would welcome big brother Russia back and those loyal to the Ukraine would tuck tail and go back to the Western portion of the country. Instead they are standing firm in the face of insurmountable odds. His bluff was called and now his next move is very tricky. Walk away and he looks weak. Fire first and the whole world turns on him. I don't think Putin cares at all about the people or what the people do. I think Putin did the calculation and figured the West wouldn't go to war over Ukraine... and he was right... What he didn't do the calculation on is how badly the west could hurt him without going to war. I don't think it ever occurred to him he was vulnerable to the kinds of sanctions which the old Soviet Union would just tuck under there arm and continue walking for a decade or two. Sphere of influence or not, this could become an existential crisis for Putin, and I don't think Putin realized that until yesterday. Now he's trying to justify his invasion of Crimea, placate the west saying he's done, "for now"... while saying the entire thing was the EU's and US's fault.... Only he still has troops in Crimea. So now the question is will the EU push back from the table and count their lucky stars, or will they face Putin down with a united front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10676113/Russia-Today-host-who-criticised-Kremlin-sent-to-Crimea.html Russia Today host who criticised Kremlin sent to Crimea A TV presenter working for a Kremlin-funded channel who spoke out against Russia's military invasion in Ukraine live on air has been sent by the broadcaster to Crimea to "better her knowledge" of the situation. In an off-message tirade, Abby Martin, a Washington-based American news anchor for Russia Today, shocked mostly pro-Russian viewers by announcing she "cannot stress enough" how strongly she felt about presence of its troops in Crimea, saying "Russia was wrong". However, in Russia Today's official statement released on Tuesday afternoon it said: "Contrary to the popular opinion, RT doesn’t beat its journalists into submission, and they are free to express their own opinions, not just in private but on the air. This is the case with Abby’s commentary on the Ukraine. "We respect her views, and the views of all our journalists, presenters and program hosts, and there will be absolutely no reprimands made against Ms. Martin. "In her comment Ms. Martin also noted that she does not possess a deep knowledge of reality of the situation in Crimea. As such we’ll be sending her to Crimea to give her an opportunity to make up her own mind from the epicentre of the story." Miss Martin however told the Telegraph: "I am not going to Crimea despite the statement RT has made." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't think Putin cares at all about the people or what the people do. I think Putin did the calculation and figured the West wouldn't go to war over Ukraine... and he was right... What he didn't do the calculation on is how badly the west could hurt him without going to war. I don't think it ever occurred to him he was vulnerable to the kinds of sanctions which the old Soviet Union would just tuck under there arm and continue walking for a decade or two. Sphere of influence or not, this could become an existential crisis for Putin, and I don't think Putin realized that until yesterday. I don't think Putin cares at all about the people or what the people do. I think Putin did the calculation and figured the West wouldn't go to war over Ukraine... and he was right... What he didn't do the calculation on is how badly the west could hurt him without going to war. I don't think it ever occurred to him he was vulnerable to the kinds of sanctions which the old Soviet Union would just tuck under there arm and continue walking for a decade or two. Sphere of influence or not, this could become an existential crisis for Putin, and I don't think Putin realized that until yesterday. Exactly! Except that he does care about what his people at home think and the riots that could break out in Russia. His rule is held up in many ways by the iron fist that he wields when people come out against him. If he loses the ability to be viewed that way his entire threat at home in undermined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10676113/Russia-Today-host-who-criticised-Kremlin-sent-to-Crimea.html "Miss Martin however told the Telegraph: "I am not going to Crimea despite the statement RT has made." Wow. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/russian-propaganda-ukrainian-rumours-anger-hate-crimea?CMP=twt_gu Russian propaganda and Ukrainian rumour fuel anger and hate in Crimea Anyone spending any amount of time in Crimea at the moment will hear the words "Nazi" and "fascist" a lot. The protests in Kiev, people across the region will insist, were a Nazi-inspired revolt, backed by the west, and that is why the Russian operation to "protect" Crimea from such Nazis was so necessary. Certainly, there were unsavoury elements among the Kiev protests, and there are a number of people with unpleasant far-right views that hold positions in the new interim government. Many people in western Ukraine do hold complicated views about the wartime period, and many in Russia are understandably concerned by the veneration by small parts of the protest movement of controversial collaborationist leaders. "You Brits don't understand about fascism but we fought against Nazi Germany," said a 62-year-old Simferopol resident, Viktor Varazin. "We know what fascism is and we will never let it take hold here. Thank God the Russians are here." But perhaps the most disturbing thing about the Russian propaganda is that it is clear that many inside the Kremlin actually believe it. In December, a Russian government source assured the Guardian that the Kiev protests were the preserve of radical marginals, and that the rest of the city had no time at all for its goals. On Tuesday, Putin conceded that he understood that there were some normal people on Independence Square who were tired of Ukrainian corruption, but there is nevertheless a sense in the Kremlin that the entire protest was a western-backed plot, as evidenced by Putin's claims that they were organised by "people sitting in America doing experiments, like on rats". On the ground in Crimea, what is particularly odd is that the most vociferous defenders of Russian bases against supposed fascists appear to hold far-right views themselves. Outside the Belbek airbase, an aggressive self-defence group said they were there to defend the base against "Kiev fascists", but also railed against Europe, "full of repulsive gays and Muslims". "What you foreigners don't get is that those people in Maidan, they are fascists," said Alexander, a Simferopol resident drinking at a bar in the city on Monday night. "I mean, I am all for the superiority of the white race, and all that stuff, but I don't like fascists." http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/03/04/ukraine-russia-navy-mobilizes-watson-lklv.cnn&video_referrer Russian and Ukrainian warships mobilize Added on March 4, 2014 Russian and Ukrainian warships have been seen on the move heading to the Black Sea. CNN's Ivan Watson reports. https://twitter.com/maxseddon Kerry struck by how safe the streets of Kiev seem. "I didn't see anyone who feels threatened - except for invasion by Russia." 12:12 PM https://twitter.com/mitchellreports @JohnKerry arriving now Paris brought Ukraine's foreign minister with him to talks and will try to engineer meeting with Russian FM 4:24 PM http://www.theonion.com/articles/john-kerry-sits-in-shadows-of-kiev-cafe-awaiting-w,35436/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default&recirc=masculinity John Kerry Sits In Shadows Of Kiev Café Awaiting Woman Known Only As Dasha Following his overnight arrival in Ukraine amid the escalating regional tensions over the the Crimean peninsula, sources confirmed seeing U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry wearing a trench coat and cloaked in shadows at the back of a seedy, smoke-filled Kiev café Tuesday while reportedly awaiting a woman known to him only as Dasha. “All I know is that my contact goes by the name Dasha, and from the dossier I was given, she’s extremely beautiful, deadly, and not keen on making my life easy,” the United States’ top diplomat was reportedly overheard saying between drags of a pencil-thin cigarette held between his pursed lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomthePasserby Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Wow. Just wow. Hah, I'd say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Russia needs Crimea to be unequivocally on their side. IMO Putin, having to ensure cooperation in the aftermath of an unplanned(?) change of power and maybe future allegiances, in the country where Crimea is an autonomous region anyway (like Texas I imagine), has to make damn sure his bases are still his bases to protect his own government at home. The new Ukraine government definitely hasn't had an auspicious beginning. Frankly, Russia should have thought of the possibility before they gave Crimea and one of their major naval bases back to Ukraine the last time. Those Texans start making allegiances with Russia and there would be patriotic, American boots on the ground at Ft Hood lickety-split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.iiss.org/en/politics%20and%20strategy/blogsections/2014-d2de/february-1d08/ukraine-russia-088f Excellent read. Two theories on why Russia is doing what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Russia needs Crimea to be unequivocally on their side. IMO Putin, having to ensure cooperation in the aftermath of an unplanned(?) change of power and maybe future allegiances, in the country where Crimea is an autonomous region anyway (like Texas I imagine), has to make damn sure his bases are still his bases to protect his own government at home. The new Ukraine government definitely hasn't had an auspicious beginning. Frankly, Russia should have thought of the possibility before they gave Crimea and one of their major naval bases back to Ukraine the last time. Those Texans start making allegiances with Russia and there would be patriotic, American boots on the ground at Ft Hood lickety-split. You sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=2btGZSb6 Defiant Putin drops cool demeanor in Ukraine talk In some ways, the venue Vladimir Putin chose and the emotional lecture he gave the world about Russia's actions in Ukraine said it all. In an hour-long chat with a handful of Kremlin pool reporters at his presidential residence, Putin sat in an easy chair and spoke with the bravado of an ex-KGB agent suspicious of Western plots. https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov Former Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul: Russia's eventual annex of Ukraine a 'possibility' if events escalate. 6:46 PM https://twitter.com/MajorCBS Key details from WH on Ukraine: POTUS spoke to Merkel 1+ hour today, Germany looks to mediate w/Putin; sanctions prepared not launched soon 6:55 PM Also from WH: US out of G-8 summit if crisis continues; POTUS does not see Ukraine as biggest FP challenge (still ArabSpring) 6:57 PM Potential offramp for Putin = pull troops back to bases w/11K ceiling, accept international mediators, accept May 26 election for new govt 6:58 PM POTUS phone call w/Putin Saturday exercise in talking past one another; POTUS raised variation of Ukraine "offramp" & Putin non-committal. 7:00 PM Lastly, administration says more POTUS-Putin calls are expected; POTUS does not view Putin as irrational, intends to keep channels open. 7:01 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velocet Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 .....aaaaaaaaaand visionary with ANOTHER score: nice Onion inclusion in the sourcing; just more great work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 We would respond militarily to an invasion of Taiwan. I think what you're saying is that inaction is a sign of weakness that will be exploited by the Russians and others. There's something to be said for that. Maybe we hold some war games with a neighbor of theirs? Or send the 6th fleet in to the black sea? What would you chose to do? Aside from economic sanctions, I'd push hard to immediately add more bordering states like Ukraine and the Scandinavian countries to active NATO membership. Of course that depends on them agreeing to do so but I have to think just the possibility of that would make the Russians more than a little uncomfortable. And if Putin continues to act a fool, I'd start placing all sorts of nice military equipment in close-by NATO states. Worse comes to worst, I'd call his bluff and start preparing for military options. I think he'd eventually back down. If not, retake the Crimea and replace the Russian base there with an American one. See how they like the possibility of having us all cozy, right next to them. Sometimes, one has to call a bluff or be prepared to pay higher costs later. I think we need to make abundantly clear to them that allowing Russia to rebuild the Soviet Union (lite) one brick at a time is a non-starter. Syria, where nobody knows whether we might be helping AQ is one thing, going back to Soviet days is totally another. Western Europe may be a bunch of punks about it but I'm sure the former Eastern Bloc would be willing to fight to the last man. Putin's core motivating principle is regaining the former glory of the Soviet days. I say ratchet things up on him so that he loses more of that former glory the longer he holds out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I tell you, the longer this goes on the more I think "just give it to him" Russia wants Crimea. Crimea wants Russia. Not sure what business that is of the international communith. I mean, the Crimean sheeple cant wait to please that prick. Let it happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/ukraine-russia-protesters-donetsk-separate-by-force?CMP=twt_gu Ukraine crisis: 'We don't want Russia to separate us by force', say protesters Inside the occupied government building, teenagers strolled through the regional council chamber and took selfies in the speaker's chair, now flanked by the flags of Russia and the Soviet-era independent republic of Donetsk. Riot policemen with shields and helmets lined the corridors, but they seemed in no particular hurry to remove the pro-Russian activists who had burst into the 11-storey building a day before and appointed their own "people's governor". "We will not leave until our demands are met," said Olexsander, aged 42, a self-appointed commander in the "local resistance" camped out in the council chamber. "Donetsk belongs with Russia," he said. Pro-Russian groups have called on local deputies to declare the government in Kiev illegitimate, to put all security forces under regional control and to withhold taxes from the capital. They also want a referendum on the region's future status – although they have yet to agree on the question to be asked, and the new government in Kiev has said that any such vote would be illegal. But later on a string of "pro-unity" demonstrations across the city attracted people from many walks of life. Waving a Ukrainian flag alongside several other local clergy, Maxim Gorinov, 37, a pastor at a local evangelical church, said he wanted Donetsk to stay in Ukraine. "I am Russian, my family speaks Russian, but I am against separatism. We don't want Russian troops here to separate us by force," he said. Significantly, the unity movement in Donetsk is backed by "ultras" – fanatical supporters of the local Shakhtar football club, one of Ukraine's two top teams. In the violent street protests which eventually forced Yanukovych to flee the country, Shakhtar ultras fought alongside their arch-rivals from Kiev's Dynamo. On Sunday the ultras from each team played against each other in the country's capital in a continued display of unity. The game ended in an uncontroversial 1-1 draw. On Tuesday evening the largest pro-unity rally in Donetsk attracted more than one thousand people. Protesters carried Ukrainian flags and chanted "Donbas is Ukraine" and "Putin go home". Shakhtar football club ultras flanked ordinary demonstrators saying they were there "to protect the people". "Why should we have a referendum? It is unconstitutional for Donetsk to do this on its own", said Dimitry Goryainov, a urologist who joined the rally. "We are against the separation of Ukraine," he added. "The main problem here is people are scared the new government needs to reassure them by calling parliamentary elections after the presidential election." http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/495632.html Canada Suspends Bilateral Military Activities With Russia Canada has suspended "all planned bilateral activities" with the Russian military, following a similar move by the U.S. over Moscow's deployment of troops in Ukraine. "I have this morning directed that, effective immediately, all planned bilateral activities between the Canadian Armed Forces and the military of the Russian Federation be suspended," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Tuesday in a statement posted on his website. The canceled activities include Vigilant Eagle, a counterterrorism exercise involving the Russian Air Force and the North American Aerospace Defense Command of the U.S. and Canada, as well as all scheduled meetings. https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak French Foreign Minister says the EU could vote on sanctions for Russia tomorrow if there is no de-escalation in the crisis in Ukraine 2:51 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Reading the above articles, I'm reminded of Eddie Izzard. "Do you have a flag?" "Governor, there's a bunch of WOGs here to see you." "What do they want?" "Don't know, sir. But they brought a flag." "Blast." I'm wondering if maybe what Russia probably wants, is for Crimea to split off, and become a separate country, or just join Russia. Might even be the right solution. What the people want. But I hate to see the invasion of somebody else's country, work. (Especially by Russia or China.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Russia needs Crimea to be unequivocally on their side. IMO Putin, having to ensure cooperation in the aftermath of an unplanned(?) change of power and maybe future allegiances, in the country where Crimea is an autonomous region anyway (like Texas I imagine), has to make damn sure his bases are still his bases to protect his own government at home. The new Ukraine government definitely hasn't had an auspicious beginning. Frankly, Russia should have thought of the possibility before they gave Crimea and one of their major naval bases back to Ukraine the last time. Those Texans start making allegiances with Russia and there would be patriotic, American boots on the ground at Ft Hood lickety-split. (1) Texas isn't any more "autonomous" than any other state. Even though during football season some of us woiuld like them to be. (2) Russia has a lease on it's bases in Crimea until 2042, Ukraine just agreed to that extension in 2010, ten years before their original leasing deal was to run out. and nobody was talking about terminating that agreement early. (3) As for dangerous economic relationships.. Anchorage Alaska is a sister city to Khaborovsk Russia Fairbanks Alaska is a sister city to Yakutsk, Russia Homer Alsaska is a sister city to Yelizovo, Russia Flagstaff AZ is a sister city to Barnaul, Russia Macon Georgia is a sister city to Ulyanovsk, Russia Honolulu Hawaii is a sister city to Kyzyl, Russia We haven't invaded or deployed troops to Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, or Hawaii to stem these dangerous economic relationships. Fundamentally Putin did not understand what was happening here. He jumped to conclusions and invaded Ukraine needlessly. Anybody looking at how well the Ukrainian and Russian militarizes are working together under some very tough times can see they have much more in common than they have which devides them. Ukrainians like Russians, they lived together for 300 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Might even be the right solution. What the people want. But I hate to see the invasion of somebody else's country, work. (Especially by Russia or China.) This is a bunch of hooyee that Russia is selling. Now that Russian troops dominate the Crimean, now that Russia has installed a friendly President in Crimea who was only able to garner about 4% of the local vote in the last election; Russia says only now is Crimea free to vent their true feelings on succession ! That is not reasonable. Russia can't site popular Crimean will in their argument, when Russia has thousands of masked soldiers on the ground there scaring the hell out of people and repressing alternative ideas. Troops amazingly Russia isn't even claiming as their own? There is a fundamental dishonesty to this argument which should not be overlooked. What is a reasonable statement is Russian troops have no right to invade Ukraine. Crimea is part of Ukraine and has been part of Ukraine for 50 years. Ukraine's boarders have been recognized by every major country in the world including Russia. Russia doesn't get to invade and redraw the map because it suites them regardless of convenient informal public opinion polls taken post invasion. This entire argument Russia is making is designed to peal off support for sanctions inside Europe. We are basically being asked to reward Russia for the appearance of reasonability they are now choosing to project. Reward Russia by not opposing their unlawful act because they aretaking the time to craft the outline of a rational reasonable argument. Only we must ignore the fact their argument is devoid of any truth. Don't do it, Don't let them sell that drivel. We make the world we live in. If the world ( EU + US ) allows the Crimea to remain in Russian hands without taking strong economic action to oppose it, then Putin will have been successful in setting back the clock in Europe by 80 years... And this kind of nonsense will become more and more common and brazen. If Russia can invade any country it likes on the pretext of protecting the Russian speaking minority, what Eastern European country is safe? Latvia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Bulgaria? What country is Russia going to invade next? How is that reasonable? If we oppose Putin, exact a heavy economic price and show Russian this sort of behavior will not be tolerated by their neighbors and trade partners; then perhaps we will have begun to pull Russia into the 21st century...Then perhaps Putin will think twice about invading his next neighbor two or three years down the road... 21st century is a better place for all of Europe to live in compared to the mid 20th century. The 21st century vision of Europe is worth confronting Russia's aggression over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-the-cool-it-response-to-foreign-policy-rhetoric/2014/03/04/38cefa34-a3e6-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html Robert Gates tells Republicans to cut back on criticizing Obama’s Ukraine policy .... “I think considerable care needs to be taken in terms of what is said, so that the rhetoric doesn’t threaten what policy can’t deliver,” Gates explained in a telephone interview. Russian President Vladimir Putin “holds most of the high cards” in Crimea and Ukraine as a whole. U.S. policy should work to reinforce the security of neighboring states without fomenting a deeper crisis in which Putin will have the advantage. Specifically, said Gates, the United States should help NATO allies such as Poland and the Baltic states enhance their readiness to resist any future Russian moves. The United States could encourage a rotation of NATO aircraft to beef up defenses on Russia’s border, for example. That’s the kind of power play that can check Putin, because it is realistic and sustainable. Gates said that Obama is correct to avoid loose talk about military options. “I’d even be cautious about sending warships into the Black Sea,” Gates explained. “It’s a threatening gesture, but if you’re not prepared to do something about it, it’s an empty gesture.” I asked Gates what he thought about the criticism of Obama by McCain and Graham. “They’re egging him on” to take actions that may not be effective, Gates warned. He said he “discounted” their deeper argument that Obama had invited the Ukraine crisis by not taking a firmer stand on Syria or other foreign policy issues. Even if Obama had bombed Syria or kept troops in Iraq or otherwise shown a tougher face, “he still would have the same options in Ukraine. Putin would have the same high cards.” Gates, a Republican himself, urged the GOP senators to “tone down” their criticism and “try to be supportive of the president rather than natter at the president.” .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 UN envoy trapped in a coffee shop in Crimea after masked men threaten him and seize his car. Some media with him now, staying to watch him on his request. https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv UN special advisor Robert Serry had been visiting navy commander when his car was blocked. Stand off followed 11:54 AM He refused to go with men blocking car, got out and walked until he found coffee shop. He's asked ITV News team to stay with him. 11:56 AM UN special envoy Robert Serry's assistant says she saw at least one man with a gun among group who blocked his car. 11:57 AM Outside coffee shop are men in combat fatigues blocking the door. Some wear pro Russia black and gold arm band. Not allowing anyone in/out 12:01 PM UN special envoy Robert Serry with me in coffee shop. Outside local militia block the door. Ukraine pic.twitter.com/pbotNqCG3i 12:04 PM https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM Dozens of pro-Russian men in fatigues have attacked the group of women holding peace signs. They tore the signs, shoved women into street. 5:11 AM Police stand by and do nothing here on Karl Marx street as women thrown into street, pro-Russian group attacks journalists w/ cameras. 5:12 AM Women in Simferopol prepare sign that reads: Do you love Ukraine? Nearby, ~50 pro-Russian burly men shout "****es." pic.twitter.com/TzpyidKUdo 6:11 AM Another reported kidnapping today: Colonel-General Mikhail Koval abducted near Yalta military base - @ukrpravda_news http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/5/7017734/ 11:44 AM Massive opposing rallies this eve in eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk. Livestream here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/donbasstv-live 11:51 AM https://twitter.com/carlbildt Swedish FM In Kiev later today I hope to be able to see also friend Mustafa Cemilev. Situation of Tatars the real minority issue on Crimea. 3:27 AM https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv View of militia from inside coffee shop where UN envoy Robert Serry is blockaded inside pic.twitter.com/ojbAruMzyW 12:11 PM Robert Serry has now agreed to go straight to the airport and end his mission in Crimea 12:12 PM Crowd chant Russia Russia as UN envoy leaves coffee shop and scrambles into waiting car 12:14 PM Path of envoy's car blocked by protesters chanting Putin Putin. 12:15 PM Robert Serry finally on his way to the airport, police having forced a way through an angry crowd. 12:19 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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