The House that Bruce Built

[RedskinsInFebruary]

 

Well obviously the Redskins organization didn't like Bitonio

 

...but they should have.

[chipwhich]

...but they should have.

 

Well that would require a real GM, which we still don't have......although people will argue Bruce Allen is a real GM.  In 3-5 more years, maybe Danny finally gets it right.  It's unfortunate.

[knowledge316]

 

Well that would require a real GM, which we still don't have......although people will argue Bruce Allen is a real GM.  In 3-5 more years, maybe Danny finally gets it right.  It's unfortunate.

 

 

Of course Allen isn't a real GM and I have no idea why some of the fans here thinks he is. I hate Danny and I don't think he'll ever get it right. So many years of being a laughingstock, you'd think he would figure it out, but he hasn't. So I have given up hope for this terrible owner. 

[Zazzaro703]

The house that Bruce built is made out of cardboard and toothpicks. With the finances Snyder has and no cap on the front office, I really cannot fathom why we don't have the best front office in the league. Throw a pile of money at one of the consensus best GMs in the league and give them complete control and an open checkbook with who they want for scouts, coaches, everything. Guess its not that easy.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Zazzaro703

[bird_1972]

Of course Allen isn't a real GM and I have no idea why some of the fans here thinks he is. I hate Danny and I don't think he'll ever get it right. So many years of being a laughingstock, you'd think he would figure it out, but he hasn't. So I have given up hope for this terrible owner. 

 

Of course he won't get it right or figure it out. He's just not that bright. 

[martytheman]

The house he built looks an awful like that pirate ship down in Tampa 

 

yeah.. and that thing sunk with all hands on deck.

 

Bruce's house is looking pretty ****ty thus far, and there is nothing on the horizon that indicates that is going to change anytime soon.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What exactly did Bruce did with the Raiders? I always assumed that Al's executives were there simply as a blood supply.

[drowland]

What exactly did Bruce did with the Raiders? I always assumed that Al's executives were there simply as a blood supply.

 

He was executive of the year in 2002.  But it's hard to tell what Bruce actually did there since Al called all the shoots and Mike Lombardi was the top player personnel guy assisting Al. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He was executive of the year in 2002.  But it's hard to tell what Bruce actually did there since Al called all the shoots and Mike Lombardi was the top player personnel guy assisting Al. 

 

For the record, I wouldn't let Mike Lombardi plan a bachelor party let alone run a football team, but that's neither here nor there.

[drowland]

For the record, I wouldn't let Mike Lombardi plan a bachelor party let alone run a football team, but that's neither here nor there.

 

I agree, Lombardi's a weasel.  Is it a coincidence the Patriots suck now that he's part of their FO?  The Pats current struggles can actually be traced to the last couple years, but Lombardi ain't going to help.

 

As for Bruce I look more at what happened in Tampa.  He and Jon started with a Super Bowl roster.  Poor drafting and poor FA signings later that team was in the dumps. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

A couple general thoughts in relation to a number of posts:

 

1. Bruce has not proven to be a good personnel guy, but he's proven to be a good cap guy.  He should accentuate that.

2. If I was Bruce, I'd give up the GM title officially, and hire a real GM to work for me. 

3. I think that he hired too many guys from Tampa.  

4. As much as I like Gruden, and I think that he's a good coach, I think the fact that they are buddies isn't helping the perception.

5. He is going to have to step in on Haslett.  I don't think he does it during the season, because I'm not sure who they've got that would be any better.  But he's going to have to force Gruden to make a change there, if for no other reason than he's going to have a fan revolt on his hands if he doesn't.  

 

There are some things that happened this year (so far) that are unpredictable, unfortunately, and nothing he can do about it. You can't predict that you're going to lose your starting QB, NT, CB, TE for extended periods of time, and also miss out on your LT, LG, SS and a few others for shorter periods.  

 

And the 'Skins DO have more depth.  But the problem is that it's being tested way too early, and where the depth is questionable is exactly where they are getting tested.

 

The biggest miss personnel wise for me, and I said it in the "Wish I got that guy" thread is that I would have stayed put and taken Bitonio, because he could have been penciled in as a started immediately. While trading back and picking up Murphy and Long with the 2 picks is nice, they are both backups, and Moses was a long shot to start the season as a starter right from the minute they drafted him.

 

And the biggest organizational miss is that I think they needed to move on from Haslett and Raheem Morris regardless of what Bruce thought of them.  Sometimes change is necessary.  And there were a few guys out there that could have been immediate upgrades.  Including Wade Phillips, who's freaking son is on the coaching staff.  

[darrelgreenie]

Its gonna be hard for Bruce to step in on Haslett since he has proved the lousy personnel.

[TheLongshot]

A couple general thoughts in relation to a number of posts:

 

1. Bruce has not proven to be a good personnel guy, but he's proven to be a good cap guy.  He should accentuate that.

2. If I was Bruce, I'd give up the GM title officially, and hire a real GM to work for me. 

3. I think that he hired too many guys from Tampa.  

4. As much as I like Gruden, and I think that he's a good coach, I think the fact that they are buddies isn't helping the perception.

5. He is going to have to step in on Haslett.  I don't think he does it during the season, because I'm not sure who they've got that would be any better.  But he's going to have to force Gruden to make a change there, if for no other reason than he's going to have a fan revolt on his hands if he doesn't.  

 

There are some things that happened this year (so far) that are unpredictable, unfortunately, and nothing he can do about it. You can't predict that you're going to lose your starting QB, NT, CB, TE for extended periods of time, and also miss out on your LT, LG, SS and a few others for shorter periods.  

 

And the 'Skins DO have more depth.  But the problem is that it's being tested way too early, and where the depth is questionable is exactly where they are getting tested.

 

The biggest miss personnel wise for me, and I said it in the "Wish I got that guy" thread is that I would have stayed put and taken Bitonio, because he could have been penciled in as a started immediately. While trading back and picking up Murphy and Long with the 2 picks is nice, they are both backups, and Moses was a long shot to start the season as a starter right from the minute they drafted him.

 

And the biggest organizational miss is that I think they needed to move on from Haslett and Raheem Morris regardless of what Bruce thought of them.  Sometimes change is necessary.  And there were a few guys out there that could have been immediate upgrades.  Including Wade Phillips, who's freaking son is on the coaching staff.  

 

2. Some people don't seem to understand what a GM does.  He's not simply the personnel guy, but runs every aspect of the football operation.  Being a personnel guy isn't a requirement.  He's as much a real GM as any other GM in the NFL.

 

4. I don't get how knowing Gruden before hiring him is a bad thing.  I would think knowing a lot about a candidate would be a positive.  I guess one can argue that we didn't cast a broad net, but I think most teams are focused on just a few candidates and generally know who they want to hire.

 

5. I personally wouldn't like it if the GM was dictating who the head coach should hire as assistants.  I know people here hate Haslett with a passion, but he's the guy Gruden wanted to work with.  Also, let's be honest here: whether Haslett was here or not, the secondary would still suck.  (You want Morris to be the DC?  He's overseeing the worst unit on the defense.)

 

Personally, I shake my head that less than a year into the job, people are laying into him.  Guys, this team was a well deserved 3-13 last year.  Expecting a miracle turnaround, especially with the injuries we have been collecting, is really unrealistic.

Edited October 2, 2014 by TheLongshot

[Voice_of_Reason]

2. Some people don't seem to understand what a GM does.  He's not simply the personnel guy, but runs every aspect of the football operation.  Being a personnel guy isn't a requirement.  He's as much a real GM as any other GM in the NFL.

Well, there might be some semantics here. Bruce is President of the Redskins, and he has authority over everything in that capacity.

Bruce has final say over the roster, over the coaches, and as far as I can tell, over everything else.

What I'm saying is that he needs somebody with a GM title to work for him who's in charge of the scouting department, and makes the player decisions for him. The GM and the Coach would work for Bruce. He's still got ultimate responsibility, but there's somebody else who is a born and bred talent evaluator who's responsible for the roster.

4. I don't get how knowing Gruden before hiring him is a bad thing.  I would think knowing a lot about a candidate would be a positive.  I guess one can argue that we didn't cast a broad net, but I think most teams are focused on just a few candidates and generally know who they want to hire.

I think that he knew exactly who he wanted and hired that guy without a lot of due diligence. And I know that's the perception, and I think that hurts him.

5. I personally wouldn't like it if the GM was dictating who the head coach should hire as assistants.  I know people here hate Haslett with a passion, but he's the guy Gruden wanted to work with.  Also, let's be honest here: whether Haslett was here or not, the secondary would still suck.  (You want Morris to be the DC?  He's overseeing the worst unit on the defense.)

And with this I disagree. The GM/President is the Coach's boss. And sometimes your boss gets to tell you what to do. Now, the way that it SHOULD work is Bruce goes in to Gruden's office, and they discuss it, and Gruden comes to the realization that he's got to make a change there. Without Bruce having to drop the hammer.

However, if he has to drop the hammer, I think he has every right and responsibility to do that. Gruden should be involved in picking the next DC, but it should also be an organization decision.

When I hire managers to work for me, even though they're going to work directly for me, my boss interviews them as well. And if he doesn't like one of my decisions, he says so. Sometimes I get to pick anyway and live with the consequences. Sometimes he doesn't let me. Though, most of the time we agree. And if you've got the respect your boss, that's always good.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Voice_of_Reason

[chipwhich]

Personally, I shake my head that less than a year into the job, people are laying into him.  Guys, this team was a well deserved 3-13 last year.  Expecting a miracle turnaround, especially with the injuries we have been collecting, is really unrealistic.

 

You can't have it both ways.  He isn't less than a year into the job.  I shake my head when I keep hearing Danny has stopped interfering with football operations, yet everything during the Shanny years was all of Shanny's fault.  Either Bruce supported hiring Shanny and giving him full responsibility so it's his fault, or that was all on Dan Snyder so it was his fault.  To lay no blame on Bruce for ANYTHING until this draft is the real head shaker.

[TheLongshot]

 

What I'm saying is that he needs somebody with a GM title to work for him who's in charge of the scouting department, and makes the player decisions for him. The GM and the Coach would work for Bruce. He's still got ultimate responsibility, but there's somebody else who is a born and bred talent evaluator who's responsible for the roster.

 

And we have that guy.  His name is Scott Campbell.  Director Of Player Personnel.

 

 

I think that he knew exactly who he wanted and hired that guy without a lot of due diligence. And I know that's the perception, and I think that hurts him.

 

Except that's the way it works for most teams.

 

 

And with this I disagree. The GM/President is the Coach's boss. And sometimes your boss gets to tell you what to do. Now, the way that it SHOULD work is Bruce goes in to Gruden's office, and they discuss it, and Gruden comes to the realization that he's got to make a change there. Without Bruce having to drop the hammer.

However, if he has to drop the hammer, I think he has every right and responsibility to do that. Gruden should be involved in picking the next DC, but it should also be an organization decision.

 

Course, the assumption is that the majority of our defensive woes are because of Haslett and we'd be better off without him.  I don't think the defensive performance has reflected that perception. So far, the front 7 has mostly played up to expectations, being stout against the run and there is a lot of hustle to make tackles.  The problem has come from the long-neglected secondary, where the lack of experience and talent is really hurting us right now.  I don't think a change in DC would change much on the defensive side of the ball right now.

You can't have it both ways.  He isn't less than a year into the job.  I shake my head when I keep hearing Danny has stopped interfering with football operations, yet everything during the Shanny years was all of Shanny's fault.  Either Bruce supported hiring Shanny and giving him full responsibility so it's his fault, or that was all on Dan Snyder so it was his fault.  To lay no blame on Bruce for ANYTHING until this draft is the real head shaker.

 

Bruce does have the responsibility of who he had hired as the personnel department and their performance.  Certainly, you can question that.  That being said, I think he had a solid offseason and his FO has found a good selection of young players who are contributing.  You can second guess a lot of decisions, tho I'd be interested to see what the alternatives would have been.

[chipwhich]

Bruce does have the responsibility of who he had hired as the personnel department and their performance.  Certainly, you can question that.  That being said, I think he had a solid offseason and his FO has found a good selection of young players who are contributing.  You can second guess a lot of decisions, tho I'd be interested to see what the alternatives would have been.

 

Who takes the blame for Shanny?  It's got to fall on Bruce's shoulders.  Which is why his blame doesn't start this year.  Moving the goal posts and judging him by this year alone means that Dan Snyder interfered for the last 4 years as you don't want Bruce to have any responsibility.  I guess in another 3 years we can finally hope for a real front office.

[TheLongshot]

Who takes the blame for Shanny?  It's got to fall on Bruce's shoulders.  Which is why his blame doesn't start this year.  Moving the goal posts and judging him by this year alone means that Dan Snyder interfered for the last 4 years as you don't want Bruce to have any responsibility.  I guess in another 3 years we can finally hope for a real front office.

 

Dan Snyder does.  Bruce was hired with the understanding that Shanahan was going to be the head coach and have personnel control.  Beyond that, Snyder handed off the responsibility to Shanahan.

[RFKFedEx]

I don't think the RG3 trade was all Shanni induced. The owner applied 'must win now' pressure after two flat seasons in 2010-2011. The haul just wasn't rational for a real football man to have executed it.

Theres no way D. Jax would be here today if we had a real GM. That signing just reeked of classic Snyder.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You can't have it both ways.  He isn't less than a year into the job.  I shake my head when I keep hearing Danny has stopped interfering with football operations, yet everything during the Shanny years was all of Shanny's fault.  Either Bruce supported hiring Shanny and giving him full responsibility so it's his fault, or that was all on Dan Snyder so it was his fault.  To lay no blame on Bruce for ANYTHING until this draft is the real head shaker.

 

Shanahan hired Allen. You have it backwards.

 

Snyder hired Shanahan who hired Allen who became closer to Snyder than Shanahan and led to Synder having Allen fire Shanahan and promoting himself to Shanahan's old job.

 

The organizational flow chart of this team at times literally has Dan Snyder looking up his own ass.

[chipwhich]

Shanahan hired Allen. You have it backwards.

 

Snyder hired Shanahan who hired Allen who became closer to Snyder than Shanahan and led to Synder having Allen fire Shanahan and promoting himself to Shanahan's old job.

 

The organizational flow chart of this team at times literally has Dan Snyder looking up his own ass.

 

Well I don't think Shanny hired Allen.  Allen was brought in for his ties to past Redskins, for his family ties, and for his relationship with Danny.  I don't think Dan did his hiring search for Shanny, and Shanny said he we need this Allen guy.

[SkinsFTW]

If Shanny hired Allen then he did it before he was even hired by Snyder. That takes some talent.

[Thinking Skins]

Who takes the blame for Shanny?  It's got to fall on Bruce's shoulders.  Which is why his blame doesn't start this year.  Moving the goal posts and judging him by this year alone means that Dan Snyder interfered for the last 4 years as you don't want Bruce to have any responsibility.  I guess in another 3 years we can finally hope for a real front office.

From the way I recall it, Shanny and Dan spoke while Zorn was the coach (and before) and they were talking about what it would take to get him to coach the Skins. And Shanny mentioned that he'd like Allen as his GM/number 2 for personnel. Then Dan goes out and fires Vinny during the regular season, and hires Bruce. And at the end of the season they fire Zorn and hire Shanny.

[Cooleyfan1993]

If Shanny hired Allen then he did it before he was even hired by Snyder. That takes some talent.

yeah i was gonna say, pretty sure bruce allen was hired in December and then Mike Shanahan got hired after the final game.

[Zazzaro703]

They can step in on Haslett now. Wade is up in the stands at our games, he should have been hired over the summer. While he has a bad head coaching record, when he is in charge of the defense he gets results. Much better results than Haslett.