The House that Bruce Built

[darrelgreenie]

                                                                                                                                                          

 

I don't think we can cut bait with Gruden. But in perfect world Bruce Allen's GM duties should be removed and handed to an actual GM.

A GM that will fix the coaching staff to resemble the structure closer to that of a normal WCO.

 

Our structure: 1st time HC also call plays, 1st time OC non-play-caller. QB coach duties shared by the HC/OC

 

KC-

Andy Reid HC who calls plays, Doug Pederson OC (former NFL QB and QB coach), Matt Nagy QB coach, Brad Childress (former HC, OC and playcaller) spread game analysis/special projects

 

Eagles-

Chip Kelly HC who calls plays, Pat Shurmur OC (former HC, former OC), Bill Musgrave QB coach (former OC, vet QB coach)

 

Colts-

Pep Hamilton 2nd year OC (Luck's college OC btw), Rob Chudzinski special assistant (former HC, vet OC developed Cam/rookie year), Clyde Christensen QB coach (former OC, vet QB coach)

 

Packers-

Mike McCarthy vet HC former OC doesn't call plays, Tom Clements OC playcaller (former OC vet/QB coach), Alex Van Pelt QB coach (vet QB coach former NFL QB)

 

Cowboys-

Garrett vet HC former OC doesn't call plays, Bill Callahan OC playcaller (former HC, vet OC) Scott Linehan passing game coordinator (former HC, former OC), Wade Wilson vet QB coach former NFL QB

 

Miami-

Philbin 3rd year HC former OC doesn't call plays, Bill Lazor 1st year OC playcaller stolen from Chip Kelly former vet QB coach, Zac Taylor vet QB coach, Ben Johnson assistant QB coach 1st year

[Voice_of_Reason]

 

I remember that press conference you refer to above and I don't buy that drivel for a second.

 

I think that you're being extremely naive. That wasn't just on 980, that was every insider, beat reporter, everybody saying it.  And it makes sense, and fits the same story line that's been pushed by Griffin and Griffin's father (who spoke WAY too much) before the 2013 season.  

 

Where there is smoke, there is fire. 

 

You put a lot on the teacher, I put a lot on the student.  

                                                                                                                                                          

 

I don't think we can cut bait with Gruden. But in perfect world Bruce Allen's GM duties should be removed and handed to an actual GM.

A GM that will fix the coaching staff to resemble the structure closer to that of a normal WCO.

 

Our structure: 1st time HC also call plays, 1st time OC non-play-caller. QB coach duties shared by the HC/OC

On this, we are in complete and total agreement.  Allen should never have let Gruden be the HC, ostensibly the OC and Playcaller.

 

McVay might be the OC, but it's Gruden's offense.

 

And no QB Coach.

 

That should NEVER have happened.  And that's on Allen to make sure that it doesn't happen.

 

I'm actually really against HC's who call plays.  There are a few where it works, Kelly and (up until recently) Payton in New Orleans are the exceptions, not the rule.  But they have a lot of vets on their staffs to get everything together.

 

I prefer having a HC manage everything, have an OC, DC and STC, and let them do the X's and O's. 

[darrelgreenie]

I think that you're being extremely naive. That wasn't just on 980, that was every insider, beat reporter, everybody saying it.  And it makes sense, and fits the same story line that's been pushed by Griffin and Griffin's father (who spoke WAY too much) before the 2013 season.

Then the feeling is mutual.

That drivel fits the story line crafted by the media around Griffin II statement. I'm gonna let this go after this because its pointless now. Once a player is done, the revisionist piling on is impossible and pointless to stop. So after this I'm gonna try to be done.

First of all what Robert II said is true by the way “You name one quarterback out there that would rather run the football than throw the football and I’ll show you a loser.” Seriously what QB would rather run then pass?

But going from Griffin II comments to dictating how the offense would be run is a ridiculous and absurd leap.

 

Here's what Robert said-

I'll do whatever we have to do to win the game," he said. "That's always been my mindset. I'm the quarterback."

 

"The plays are in, they're ready to run, and I'm ready to run them," Griffin said. "We just haven't had a chance to do them because we've fallen behind too much.

"It's not that I want to run more, I just feel like that's what we need and if that's what it takes for us to win games, I'm willing to do that. It's not anything I'm going to shy away from."

 

Why do statements from Griffin's father carry more weight then Griffin's own statements? Why do those statements carry more weight then Griffin's actions running w/ a knee brace?

 

This year-

"... I’m not gonna go out there and try to be a normal quarterback. I’m gonna go out there and be the quarterback he’s called me to be.”

 

“It’s a part of every quarterback who can move around a little bit — their game,” Griffin said. “Everybody has run it, from Aaron Rodgers on down the list. It’s something you want to sprinkle in, keep the defense aware of, make them have to practice it, but it’s not something that you make the focal part of your offense. That’s why we have the guys that we have. That’s why we run the offense that we’ve been running, and you haven’t seen very much of the zone read. But it is there, and it’ll be utilized as Coach deems necessary.”

 

“We’ll mix in quick gains, screens, we’ll take our shots, we’ll run the ball and if a zone-read creeps in there every now and there, it doesn’t bother me,” he said. “It’s whatever Coach Gruden and Coach [sean] McVay want, and I also can use my legs in the passing game if something’s not there.”

 

Gruden-

“If you run it just a few times over the course of the game — maybe three or four times in two games — I don’t know, then it’s just something else for the defense to have to worry about in practice and will give them fits,” Gruden said. “. . . I don’t envision us running it seven, eight times a game. We’ll see how the game dictates. But it’s just like anything else. You run something similar often, the defense will figure it out. You have to be diverse in what you do. You have to disguise what you do.”

 

Gruden: Designed runs 'few and far between' for RGIII

Gruden conceded to NFL Media's Steve Wyche on Thursday's edition of NFL AM that Griffin's designed runs might be "few and far between" this season. The new 'Skins coach made it clear, however, that RGIII will have the green light to scramble as often as the situation dictates.

 

From before Gruden even came here:

"It was my feeling and a lot of other people's feeling in the building that Andy was the most mentally ready to come in and start Day 1," Gruden said. " ... Colin had the great physical makeup, but there were questions about his quarterback accuracy, as a passer is concerned. I also wasn't really into the read option stuff and it wasn't really that popular at the time."

                                                                                                                                                         

 

So where there is smoke there is sometimes media driven BS. Grudes doesn't call much zone-read because he never has and doesn't even like it. So can we stop with Griffin doesn't want to run read-option and that is why they don't call it. No. Watch some Bengals game and know the history Grudes doesn't like/call much zone read.

And Dilfer in this interview here: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=428&f=3671033

Said ~Even if Jay wanted to run an offense similar to the Mike/Kyle he doubts whether or not Jay has their acumen in the read-option game.

 

 

You put a lot on the teacher, I put a lot on the student.

I am not saying Griffin is blameless, never have not once. Griffin has played the worst 2 games I've ever seen him play. I've broken down some of his mistakes and Griffin is not playing well.

 

But this is a process and the Jay is supposed to be responsible for Griffin's development. ~20 quarters into a process that Jay knows takes far more he's giving up.

For me this is results driven. Jay was responsible for develop QBs not for making excuses about their lack thereof.

Jay's task was to develop QB the results of that development is production.

The production has dropped and some say the Griffin has regressed. (Cousins hasn't developed either btw)

From a management perspective Jay has failed in the task of developing QBs.

 I'm done talking about Griffin though. Its in the past. People are gonna pile on and Griffin is gonna be the bad guy/fall guy in many peoples eyes because that's what happens now. But, when we refer to Griffin and what happened here I hope the revisionist history and the narrative doesn't have to become completely fabricated because its annoying to read post after poster of falsehoods. (not from you per se but in general)

 

Here's what I see:

Jay was tasked with develop Griffin. Griffin didn't play well quickly enough based on Jay's arbitrary time table. Jay pulled the plug and turned the process of pulling the plug into a spectacle.

 

I hope Griffin lands in a place with a stable organization, strong front office and knowledge QB coaches. I think best case scenario would be to sit behind an aging but good QB for a couple/few years where he is developed properly then takes the keys of a turn-key offense. Ideal places: Saints, Arizona, Chargers, Denver (but they have a QB in development), Cowboys. Or a place where he can play right away that is completely catered to his skillset but I'm still a fan of the Burgundy and Gold so the last place I want to see him is probably the best fit the Eagles.

Edited November 26, 2014 by darrelgreenie

[darrelgreenie]

My biggest gripe in this whole charade is that Bruce got his first decision as GM wrong. He hired a HC that wasn't 100% focused on develop the franchise's most important player. So for me that's a huge strike 1. If you hire someone like Bevell or Roman although they aren't big names at least they proved the willingness to work with and build a productive offense around QBs with Griffin's skillset. As a result of this failure we may have gained a HC (good) but lost our best and potential franchise QB (bad). When we could have had a win-win. Get a good HC and retain our potential franchise QB.

 

And I actually think Colt has a chance to play well and win the job. I've always liked Colt going back to when he was a draft prospect. I thought Colt was a good addition in the offseason and thought he could play. I never understood why fans thought he sucked and viewed him as inferior to Kirk so I don't rule out Colt being guy. I'm happy for Colt just never thought it would happen like this.

 

It just sucks that one of the most talented QB prospect in a decade has washed out here in DC after such awesome start.

Edited November 26, 2014 by darrelgreenie

[redskins59]

Bruce

 

My biggest gripe in this whole charade is that Bruce got his first decision as GM wrong. He hired a HC that wasn't 100% focused on develop the franchise's most important player. So for me that's a huge strike 1. If you hire someone like Bevell or Roman although they aren't big names at least they proved the willingness to work with and build a productive offense around QBs with Griffin's skillset. As a result of this failure we may have gained a HC (good) but lost our best and potential franchise QB (bad).

 

And I actually think Colt has a chance to play well and win the job. I've always liked Colt going back to when he was a draft prospect. I thought Colt was a good addition in the offseason and thought he could play. I never understood why fans thought he sucked and viewed him as inferior to Kirk so I don't rule out Colt being guy. I'm happy for Colt just never thought it would happen like this.

 

It just sucks that one of the most talented QB prospect in a decade has washed out here in DC after such awesome start.

 

Maybe Allen's intention was never to hire a guy who'll fix Griffin, but a guy who will do everything he can to make this a winning team. This is the first year that Allen is making decisions without Shanny--so gotta give him time.  

I think the draft class looks pretty good.  Murphy has been rated high by pro football focus.  Breeland is steadily improving.  Moses looked bad against San Fran, but he'll be fine as a right tackle next year.  He has made good progress as Keim has noted.  Long hopefully is a starter too.  This is not a bad draft class.  

As far as I am concerned, Allen inherited RG3 from Shanny.  Not his guy.  

Shanahan's philosophy was, draft for potential.  RG3 had potential, that was it.  Remember that Trent Williams was drafted for potential although the guy Seattle took was rated higher.  It worked that one time.

[drowland]

As far as I am concerned, Allen inherited RG3 from Shanny.  Not his guy.  

Shanahan's philosophy was, draft for potential.  RG3 had potential, that was it.  Remember that Trent Williams was drafted for potential although the guy Seattle took was rated higher.  It worked that one time.

 

Where did you get this from?  The talk was always Snyder and Bruce talked Shanahan into making the trade up for RGIII and Shanahan was content with staying put and drafting Tannehill.  

 

As for player ratings, every team grades players differently.  Otherwise they'd all draft based off Kiper's big board.  A lot of it has to do with scheme fit.  Williams athleticism fit the ZBS better then Okung.   

[authentic]

I think as Redskins fans we've fallen into the trap of judging Bruce vs Vinny (who was a numbskull) instead of judging Bruce vs the rest of the current NFL GMs. As it stands Bruce is not a capable talent evaluator and is over his head. Just look at the over all record from 2010 until now. It doesnt inspire alot of confidence going forward. I like Bruce, but something has to Change drastically this offseason.

[knowledge316]

Lol.

 

Bruce

 

 

Maybe Allen's intention was never to hire a guy who'll fix Griffin, but a guy who will do everything he can to make this a winning team. This is the first year that Allen is making decisions without Shanny--so gotta give him time.  

I think the draft class looks pretty good.  Murphy has been rated high by pro football focus.  Breeland is steadily improving.  Moses looked bad against San Fran, but he'll be fine as a right tackle next year.  He has made good progress as Keim has noted.  Long hopefully is a starter too.  This is not a bad draft class.  

As far as I am concerned, Allen inherited RG3 from Shanny.  Not his guy.  

Shanahan's philosophy was, draft for potential.  RG3 had potential, that was it.  Remember that Trent Williams was drafted for potential although the guy Seattle took was rated higher.  It worked that one time.

 

Draft class looks pretty good? Breeland looks like a stud. Murphy has been decent, was a luxury pick. The 2 3rd rounders don't play/usually inactive, the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders were cut. Those players should be your special teamers/depth. 

 

What about his FA signings? Jackson just happened to fall to us since he was cut fairly late into the FA. Wey was a great pickup. Luavao was his #1 option and signing and he's playing as expected (a lowly rated guard). All those LBs the signed are nowhere contributing. Tracy Porter has been hurt (not surprising because he was hurt when they signed him). Ryan Clark, might as well be playing with 10 guys on defense with him. Roberts hasn't been any more productive than Hank from last season. Hatcher hasn't been what they expected. I just don't agree with signing a 32-year-old DL on a lucrative deal for a 3-13 team. That signing shows this FO lacks vision/plan. When you are 3-13, you should know you are 2-3 years away from actually competing so why bring in a old guy?

 

Right now, Danny boy and Allen are the biggest impediment to continual success for the once great franchise, Redskins.

Edited November 27, 2014 by knowledge316

[Makaveli]

I have as little faith in Allen as most other posters on here, but for those of you expecting him to be fired, do you honestly think Snyder would fire someone who has been the mouthpiece for the organization in defending the name? On top of that, they seem to be extremely close friends.

 

The best we can hope for is him getting promoted to some executive position and relinquishing his GM responsibilities in the process. But I don't see that happening for at least another season. We are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

[chipwhich]

I have as little faith in Allen as most other posters on here, but for those of you expecting him to be fired, do you honestly think Snyder would fire someone who has been the mouthpiece for the organization in defending the name? On top of that, they seem to be extremely close friends.

 

The best we can hope for is him getting promoted to some executive position and relinquishing his GM responsibilities in the process. But I don't see that happening for at least another season. We are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

 

No Allen wont be fired.  We are screwed.

[Spearfeather]

I'm not sure what Gruden is supposed to do as far as Griffin's development is concerned, when Griffin has open receivers staring him in the face, and he refuses to throw the ball.

[knowledge316]

I have as little faith in Allen as most other posters on here, but for those of you expecting him to be fired, do you honestly think Snyder would fire someone who has been the mouthpiece for the organization in defending the name? On top of that, they seem to be extremely close friends.

 

The best we can hope for is him getting promoted to some executive position and relinquishing his GM responsibilities in the process. But I don't see that happening for at least another season. We are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

 

He won't be fired. As far as promoted, he was promoted to Team President. He doesn't need to be the GM as well, but Allen gave himself that title as well. The fans are screwed the most (Allen/Danny will get their money, players will get their money, fans will waste their money).

[chipwhich]

He won't be fired. As far as promoted, he was promoted to Team President. He doesn't need to be the GM as well, but Allen gave himself that title as well. The fans are screwed the most (Allen/Danny will get their money, players will get their money, fans will waste their money).

 

Ticket sales are way down.  The seats aren't very full.  When seats aren't full, concession sales go down.

[zoony]

I'm not sure what Gruden is supposed to do as far as Griffin's development is concerned, when Griffin has open receivers staring him in the face, and he refuses to throw the ball.

It's the Internet dude, go with it

[darrelgreenie]

If we had a strong GM none of this nonsense happens. We wouldn't hire a HC that plans to burn through our QBs like Rust Cohle.

We wouldnt leave our new HC under staffed with the QB/ passing game coaches.

A strong GM let's our HC know that you cannot crush the QB that HE is responsible for developing in press conferences.

And you can't turn the handling of Griffins benching into a spectacle.

The HC we hired should have been asked and held accountable to one question first and foremost. Can you develop Griffin? If the answer is yes then understand that you are tied to him.

Griffins success/failure is your success/failure.

So do your due diligence on Griffin all our film and staff coaches are an open to you. Fund out as much as you can. If you want the job you have full control and can do whatever you like. But Griffin's develop is tantamount.

Edited November 27, 2014 by darrelgreenie

[carex]

This is speculation, but I think that it's pretty simple:

 

1. The knee injury completely broke Griffin's psyche.  

2. Griffin told Dan/Bruce that he was not going to be a dual threat QB

3. Dan/Bruce told Shanahan (both) that Griffin wasn't going to be a dual threat QB.

4. Shanahan (both) knew that this was going to implode, because neither are stupid.

5. Shanahan gave it a shot, it didn't work.  He got tired of Griffin going to Dan/Allen. Started leaking stuff to Shefter to tear down Griffin. (NOTE: This was a childish move, was the wrong move, unsavory, and rightfully got him fired.)

6. Gruden is hired.  Thinks he can use Griffin as a dual threat QB.  

7. Gruden is told by Dan/Bruce that Griffin IS NOT going to be used a dual threat QB.  Hence the rolling back of the initial press conference quotes.

8. Gruden recognizes that was going to implode, because he's not stupid.  

9. Gruden gives it a shot.  It implodes.  Griffin gets WORSE game by game because as teams get a little more film on him, they know what he's going to do before he does. 

10. Gruden finally convinces Dan/Bruce that Griffin can't do what they need him to do.  

 

 

If Griffin doesn't want to be a dual threat QB then why do they still use read option some and why when he runs will he finish those runs off with plays like that back first dive?

[War Paint]

I still think the whole Dan Snyder affect is overblown.

 

Snyder's problem seems to be hiring the wrong person. Vinny was a bad hire of course, and Allen doesn't look to be much better.

 

Constantly hiring the wrong people is a fatal flaw that leads to disaster.

[SkinsFTW]

 

Ticket sales are way down.  The seats aren't very full.  When seats aren't full, concession sales go down.

 

And when the ticket sales are way down, seats aren't very full, and concession sales are down, Snyder brings in Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Albert Haynesworth, RG3.

 

Hmm, I heard Suh is gonna be on the FA market in a few months... oh oh and Tramon Williams, Cliff Avril, Revis Island, and Jeremy Macklin... who do we choose!!!

[chipwhich]

And when the ticket sales are way down, seats aren't very full, and concession sales are down, Snyder brings in Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Albert Haynesworth, RG3.

 

Hmm, I heard Suh is gonna be on the FA market in a few months... oh oh and Tramon Williams, Cliff Avril, Revis Island, and Jeremy Macklin... who do we choose!!!

 

If we are big players in free agency this year, we are doomed for good.

[Boss_Hogg]

Signing Revis or Suh when the team needs everything else?

That's so redskins

[Laron Burgundy]

Signing Revis or Suh when the team needs everything else?

That's so redskins

But we need to think about selling merch and tickets post rg3!

[DJD2]

The HC we hired should have been asked and held accountable to one question first and foremost. Can you develop Griffin? If the answer is yes then understand that you are tied to him.

Griffins success/failure is your success/failure.

So do your due diligence on Griffin all our film and staff coaches are an open to you. Fund out as much as you can. If you want the job you have full control and can do whatever you like. But Griffin's develop is tantamount.

 

That's all well and good assuming the GM is going in to the process a.) to conduct a real coaching search and b.) with the mindset that Griffin needs development.

 

I think it's obvious that the coaching search was a farce, and it wouldn't surprise me if the mindset around Redskins Park was that Griffin didn't need development and Gruden could win with him right out of the gate.

[darrelgreenie]

That's all well and good assuming the GM is going in to the process a.) to conduct a real coaching search and b.) with the mindset that Griffin needs development.

 

I think it's obvious that the coaching search was a farce, and it wouldn't surprise me if the mindset around Redskins Park was that Griffin didn't need development and Gruden could win with him right out of the gate.

I guess I didn't consider option b.

[FrFan]

Bruce Allen: Absentee leadership charting course to nowhere for Washington

"Has anyone seen or heard from Bruce Allen lately? Really, when is he going to be benched?"

"An associate of Allen’s once issued an assessment of his NFL executive career, much of which he felt was owed to his bloodlines instead of actually making his own bones. “Bruce Allen was born on third base, and he hasn’t taken one foot off,” the associate said."

Edited November 29, 2014 by FrFan

[Rufus T Firefly]

Bruce Allen: Absentee leadership charting course to nowhere for Washington

"Has anyone seen or heard from Bruce Allen lately? Really, when is he going to be benched?"

"An associate of Allen’s once issued an assessment of his NFL executive career, much of which he felt was owed to his bloodlines instead of actually making his own bones. “Bruce Allen was born on third base, and he hasn’t taken one foot off,” the associate said."

I always thought a decent GM would do a version of what people have been advocating for RG3- stay in the background when the team is winning, leaving the coach and players to get the credit; when you lose, go out and absorb the blame.

 

I kind of thought that PR would be the one part of the job Allen would be competent at.