Latimes.com: A Black Box In Your Car? Some See A Source Of Tax Revenue

[Destino]

 

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

The usually dull arena of highway planning has suddenly spawned intense debate and colorful alliances. Libertarianshave joined environmental groups in lobbying to allow government to use the little boxes to keep track of the miles you drive, and possibly where you drive them — then use the information to draw up a tax bill.

The tea party is aghast. The American Civil Liberties Union is deeply concerned, too, raising a variety of privacy issues.

And while Congress can't agree on whether to proceed, several states are not waiting. They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over. Thousands of motorists have already taken the black boxes, some of which have GPS monitoring, for a test drive.

"This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do," said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. "There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it."

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-roads-black-boxes-20131027,0,6090226.story#axzz2j2xtGPJ7

 

What could go wrong?  Nothing, stop being paranoid.  

[HOF44]

Well heck if we are really gonna get into that kind of use taxing lets just start taxing for school districts only people that have kids in school.  Seems much more fair.

[Destino]

Well heck if we are really gonna get into that kind of use taxing lets just start taxing for school districts only people that have kids in school.  Seems much more fair.

 

And lets install tracking devices on those kids to make sure they are taxed correctly.  You know, for accuracy and stuff.  

[HOF44]

I can see it morphing into tiered tax rates.  During rush hour the tax rate is highest, middle of the night??? Near free driving. 

[No Excuses]

Some ideas are so bad they almost seem fake. Sadly, I have very low expectations from all forms of our government now; local, state or federal. 

[twa]

And lets install tracking devices on those kids to make sure they are taxed correctly.  You know, for accuracy and stuff.  

 

They already have id tags that can do it that they are required to carry

 

The mileage tax  is a natural extension of EV and hybrids resulting in lower fuel tax collections.

[mikered30]

How is this to be implemented if there is no GPS?  What happens when I travel out of state?

[Larry]

I have a problem with the OP's claim that Libertarians support this idea.

But then, my idea of Libertarianism, and other people's, sometimes diverge.

(BTW, I'm opposed to it. Yeah, EV's and hybrids burn less gas, resulting in less revenue. But they also propose a public good, by polluting less, too.

(I think that somebody who's willing to pay Big Bucks for an EV, is somebody who's offsetting the environmental impact from my Explorer. I don't mind paying his share of the road tax. I think of it as a subsidy for an activity that benefits society.)

[PokerPacker]

Dear government: I hate you; stop tracking my every move.

I have a problem with the OP's claim that Libertarians support this idea.

That stood out to me, too. What kind of libertarian wants the government tracking their every move?

[Destino]

The mileage tax is a natural extension of EV and hybrids resulting in lower fuel tax collections.

There are other ways to track mileage than tracking devices in cars. I have no problem with a mileage tax if it also makes toll roads entirely illegal.

[GhostofSparta]

Libertarians are in favor of this? The Tea Party and ACLU on the same side? What's next, cats and dogs living together? Mass hysteria!

 

Seems like just another one of those situations where the government tries to make citizens more efficient, and ends up realizing that it means less revenue for them so they're scrambling for any way to make up for it.

-People get more fuel efficient cars? Great, except we're losing money because people buy less gas!

-People conserve water during a drought? Perfect, except now we've lost all that revenue from higher water bills!

-Awareness campaigns mean less people smoke? Awesome, except how do we make up for all that missing tobacco tax money?

 

Ah well, at least it's not like the government could possibly abuse this black box idea, right guys?

[twa]

There are other ways to track mileage than tracking devices in cars. I have no problem with a mileage tax if it also makes toll roads entirely illegal.

 

but the devices are there already in many cases(but easily enough tabulated otherwise in states with yearly inspections,) toll roads are a convenience ya pay for.

 

most all newer cars are emitting data 

 

I think we pay enough taxes ,but if ya are going to add more this is certainly fair....especially since I don't commute 

 

think of it as incentive to reduce traffic and road wear.....a sin tax

[Destino]

but the devices are there already in many cases(but easily enough tabulated otherwise in states with yearly inspections,) toll roads are a convenience ya pay for.

 

most all newer cars are emitting data 

 

I think we pay enough taxes ,but if ya are going to add more this is certainly fair....especially since I don't commute 

 

think of it as incentive to reduce traffic and road wear.....a sin tax

 

The devices aren't needed for mileage taxes.  They are needed only for where and when you drive, not how far.  

 

Toll roads are not a convenience, Roads are infrastructure that by existing lead to the construction of other things like places of employment.  Reaching them, reasonably, then requires the use of that infrastructure and they become an essential entrenched public nuisance.  If we are going to be paying mileage taxes then why should I pay a tax for maintenance while driving on a privately owned road?  Makes no sense.  The best solution is to ban toll roads and, if I had my way, jail the owners and anyone in government that ever voted for their existence in the first place.  While I understand that there is a separation of church and state, toll roads are clearly the work of the devil and must be opposed.  

[twa]

a tax deduction for toll road miles might work,I think the tolls already are.

 

if they are not a convenience then why were they not publicly funded?

 

Think of the children your tax dollars could help.

[zoony]

I'm actually fine with people who use more of the roads paying in more. It probably follows the 80/20 rule like most things. Seems there could be a better way to track it without black boxes. Maybe just higher fuel taxes

[twa]

I'm actually fine with people who use more of the roads paying in more. It probably follows the 80/20 rule like most things. Seems there could be a better way to track it without black boxes. Maybe just higher fuel taxes

higher fuel taxes skips the EV and hybrids....Cali &co created a imbalance they feel a need to address.

 

not to mention that higher mpg  mandates and the economy is killing their fuel tax income....but wth, raise em all

[Destino]

a tax deduction for toll road miles might work,I think the tolls already are.

if they are not a convenience then why were they not publicly funded?

Think of the children your tax dollars could help.

They aren't publicly funded because someone wanted to make money without any real competition and had friends in the government that could make it happen.

I have no problem with a mileage tax, I just think that given recent history it's naive to think black boxes tracking movement have even a small chance of being exclusively used for tax purposes. I also really hate toll roads.

[twa]

oh the boxes track much more than that.

I don't see the problem,your phones,computers and even tv's are being used....why should a car be any different?

 

 

ya got something to hide Citizen? 

[abdcskins]

Paying for driving?  Nah dude that's dumb.  Not a chance people would be able to afford that.

 

Then again, perhaps it could cut back on this horrible exhaust ruining the ozone layer thing that we got going on.

 

I dunno, all in all it's not going to work though.

[Mocountyskins]

Just let the government into your heart. Allow the giant PSA speaker systems into your heart citizen. We care about you citizen and want to keep you safe. Remember to buy the blue ray Zero dark thirty DVD to remind you how awesome America is. All we care about is protecting your freedoms. LOLOLOLOLLMAOLMAOLOL

[Slateman]

I have a problem with the OP's claim that Libertarians support this idea.

But then, my idea of Libertarianism, and other people's, sometimes diverge.

(BTW, I'm opposed to it. Yeah, EV's and hybrids burn less gas, resulting in less revenue. But they also propose a public good, by polluting less, too.

(I think that somebody who's willing to pay Big Bucks for an EV, is somebody who's offsetting the environmental impact from my Explorer. I don't mind paying his share of the road tax. I think of it as a subsidy for an activity that benefits society.)

Fuel taxes were never intended to disuade people from driving nor made to offset the enviornmental impact of burning fossil fuels. They were instituted as a way of funding road and transportation costs. EVs and Hybrids do just as much, if not more, damage to the roads as their conventional counterparts, but were paying less tax. This would be a way of ensuring that everyone is "paying their fair share."

 

That thinking was also why Virginia is doing away with the gas tax and adding sales tax, with that increase in sales tax earmarked for transportation.

[Corcaigh]

Another option is making the annual car tax based on gross weight or engine size/HP equivalent... wouldn't reflect miles driven, but is a start based on averages.

[twa]

Another option is making the annual car tax based on gross weight or engine size/HP equivalent... wouldn't reflect miles driven, but is a start based on averages.

 

the other seems fairer imo, but would be even better if they did away with the fuel tax

 

here your tags already factor weight

[Elessar78]

Not a bad idea as long as our current tax bill is reduced by the amount that goes to road improvement. May be a solution to driving down greenhouse gases. 

[RiggosMohawk]

I can have a short commute to work and contribute to traffic gridlock just as much as someone driving from 20-30 miles further down the road.

 

If you doubt my claim, research the Trooper interchange on US-422 eastbound here in MontCo PA. I can live in that area, have a <5 mile commute to work, and actually do more to cause traffic backup than anyone else on that road.

 

I don't know what the answer to population density and commuting is, but this ain't it.