Kilmer17 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hillary and Bernie would both be excellent 4 year placeholders while the world waits for the next Reagan. All is well. #positivity Im positive whoever wins will be cheered by one side as awesome and dismissed by the other as a complete failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Last night was depressing. This whole thing is depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Im positive whoever wins will be cheered by one side as awesome and dismissed by the other as a complete failure. Spoken like a man who knows in his heart that Hillary is unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Last night was depressing. This whole thing is depressing. It's ok, the voters are just angry after 8 years with a Democrat president. It was the same thing after the last time we spent 8 years under Clinton, right? The right wing hasn't gone completely insane under Obama, right? Oh. That's right. They have. You want depressing, let's take a look back at when we used to have two reasonable parties that debated policy: http://youtu.be/0bPixyNi4DI I like McCain around the 15m mark talking tax policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well look On the bright side. After 4 years with trump you guys will really be bent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well look On the bright side. After 4 years with Trump the country will really be bent Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm not happy about how active, and unusually visible, the parties have been in trying to pick candidates. It's unseemly and feels undemocratic. The GOP is actively trying to torpedo Trump and would prefer Cruz fail as well. Meanwhile the democrats are happy to debate as little as possible and even then, only when no one is watching. If the people prefer what they are hearing from Trump, Cruz, and Sanders the parties should not be openly trying to stop them. It stinks of corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Spoken like a man who knows in his heart that Hillary is unstoppable. I don't agree with that at all. I think she'll win the Dem nomination. But she's far from unstoppable in the general. Im constantly amazed by people here that continue to say that and when pressed for info on WHY they think that, they fall silent. So I'll ask directly. What are you seeing that makes you think she's unstoppable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I don't agree with that at all. I think she'll win the Dem nomination. But she's far from unstoppable in the general. Im constantly amazed by people here that continue to say that and when pressed for info on WHY they think that, they fall silent. So I'll ask directly. What are you seeing that makes you think she's unstoppable? Oh I don't think that at all. But as for fitting your "cheered as awesome while dismissed as a failure" theory, there's no one that fits that better than Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Oh I don't think that at all. But as for fitting your "cheered as awesome while dismissed as a failure" theory, there's no one that fits that better than Hillary. Can you imagine what the reaction will be to Ted Cruz? shudder....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 So I'll ask directly. What are you seeing that makes you think she's unstoppable? The GOPs inability to pull in crossover voters by nominating the most extreme candidates possible. Or even when they do nominate an electable candidate, having them kowtow to the extreme right and hanging an albatross around their neck with the VP pick. The part that is lost on too many here is that (in my opinion - do I really need to say that?) the center of the parties is what elects at the national level. Fringe nominations like Bernie and Trump/Cruz either get crossover votes to the other party..or they get a lot of their own moderate voters staying home. Do people honestly think that moderate Republicans are 100% going to vote for extremists like Trump and Cruz over Clinton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Republicans have been campaigning against Hillary since the Clintons left the whitehouse. Warning that she would run eventually and making her the focal point of so many attacks over the years. If she wins it would a crushing blow to the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Republicans have been campaigning against Hillary since the Clintons left the whitehouse. Warning that she would run eventually and making her the focal point of so many attacks over the years. If she wins it would a crushing blow to the GOP. I think they secretly want her to win because it will guarantee another 4 years (minimum) of GOP dominated midterm and state elections. Which will in turn guarantee another decade of a GOP dominated House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hillary Clinton Is Botching Her Best Chance To Win Conventional wisdom, 2007: Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic nomination in a cakewalk. Conventional wisdom, 2015: Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic nomination in a cakewalk. Everybody knows what happened to the conventional wisdom once 2007 turned to 2008. Certainly Clinton does. This time around, even as she amassed advantages that may still prove insurmountable, her campaign put forth a strong message: "We get it. We’ve changed." But after a promising start, Clinton's campaign has taken an abrupt, confused, strategic turn. And a familiar crassness has returned to a campaign that now appears to be bent on ensuring a repeat of 2008 in 2016. On this week’s edition of “So, That Happened,” we grapple with how this came to be. Recent polling suggests her rival for the Democratic nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), is not only ahead of Clinton in New Hampshire, but is neck-and-neck, perhaps even ahead, in Iowa. That these early states are shaping up as competitive shouldn’t be a shock to anyone. Voters break late -- many aren't paying close attention until a few weeks before their state's contest. And yet, Clinton has responded to the adversity by doing, frankly, what Clintons always tend to do -- going on the attack. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, as long as those attacks make sense in the context of a Democratic primary. What Clinton has come up with, however, is strategic madness. Perhaps the most astounding mistake Clinton has made, in recent days, is the way she’s gone about competing with Sanders on the issue of health care. Sanders favors a single-payer, Medicare-for-all system. Clinton would prefer to make incremental expansions to Obamacare. But instead of convincing voters that she’d be the more politically effective candidate in this situation, Clinton’s gone all the way 'round the bend and has decided to ramp up unnecessary fearmongering, dispatching her daughter to New Hampshire to darkly warn that Sanders is gonna take everyone’s health care away: More from link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Can you imagine what the reaction will be to Ted Cruz? shudder....... That will be something to behold. I hope he eats some bacon cooked on a gun barrel at the inauguration...to really drive it home. I think they secretly want her to win because it will guarantee another 4 years (minimum) of GOP dominated midterm and state elections. Which will in turn guarantee another decade of a GOP dominated House. Not too mention boffo ratings for Fox News. And, really, isn't the GOP just the "street team" for the Murdoch media empire at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Republicans have been campaigning against Hillary since the Clintons left the whitehouse. Warning that she would run eventually and making her the focal point of so many attacks over the years. If she wins it would a crushing blow to the GOP. Not sure it would be a crushing blow but it would be torture to see her smug mug posing all over for four years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The GOPs inability to pull in crossover voters by nominating the most extreme candidates possible. Or even when they do nominate an electable candidate, having them kowtow to the extreme right and hanging an albatross around their neck with the VP pick. The part that is lost on too many here is that (in my opinion - do I really need to say that?) the center of the parties is what elects at the national level. Fringe nominations like Bernie and Trump/Cruz either get crossover votes to the other party..or they get a lot of their own moderate voters staying home. Do people honestly think that moderate Republicans are 100% going to vote for extremists like Trump and Cruz over Clinton? I'm telling you that the Polls say that they will. And that the polls disagree with your premise. And historical election data shows it's not true in every election ever that doesn't include Barrack Obama. You guys think that Trump and Cruz are extremes. And you want to think everyone else thinks that way. Heck I even think that way. But it's just not true that the people who matter most think that way. I'll bet anyone that the GOP candidate this time will get more votes than any GOP candidate in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I don't agree with that at all. I think she'll win the Dem nomination. But she's far from unstoppable in the general. Im constantly amazed by people here that continue to say that and when pressed for info on WHY they think that, they fall silent. So I'll ask directly. What are you seeing that makes you think she's unstoppable? personally i think Bush Sr, Dole, W, McCain and Romney would all be favored over Hillary today by varying degrees, or at the very least would stand equal with her (as they stood at the time of THEIR initial elections--- ie, before they had presidential track-records) i think that Cruz and Trump are significantly weaker than those previous GOP candidates, and it is hard for me to try to wrap my brain around even trying to consider them as viable candidates. Palin at the time was an aberration and a mistake... except now it is appearing that maybe she wasn't, and it is possible that this IS the republican party now. and that thought... frankly... sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm not happy about how active, and unusually visible, the parties have been in trying to pick candidates. It's unseemly and feels undemocratic. The GOP is actively trying to torpedo Trump and would prefer Cruz fail as well. Meanwhile the democrats are happy to debate as little as possible and even then, only when no one is watching. If the people prefer what they are hearing from Trump, Cruz, and Sanders the parties should not be openly trying to stop them. It stinks of corruption. I don't think "corruption" is the word I'd use. To me, that sounds like you're saying that the parties have been paid to go a certain way. I do think that the Parties have people they want to win, but there reason for wanting, say, Hillary or Bush, is because they think they will win the general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 i think in the general election Christie, Kasich (and maybe fiorna, i don;t know) would do well against hillary Jeb and Rubio are weak "presenters", but would do fine. Hillary is a weak presenter as well. the rest are assclowns that will still get the 45% of the election that would vote for Uuday Hussein if he had an R on the ballot, even if he was running against George Washington ---- but they wouldn't (shouldn't) get much else. (and yes... there is also 45% of the electorate that would vote for ANY dem, in any instance, no matter what --- Joe Stalin (D) against Abe Lincoln) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 see i always thought it was 80% of the people that are stupid but you're right maybe it's 90% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 see i always thought it was 80% of the people that are stupid but you're right maybe it's 90% i don;t even think that those people are ALL stupid... but they are all stubborn, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 personally i think Bush Sr, Dole, W, McCain and Romney would all be favored over Hillary today by varying degrees, Puleeze...they would all be cast as idiot warmongers too incompetent to wipe the drool off their chins....as is usual I'm enjoying this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Puleeze...they would all be cast as idiot warmongers too incompetent to wipe the drool off their chins....as is usual I'm enjoying this i don't care how they would be cast by their opponents (yes we know that ALL opponents are devil-spawn), i'm talking about how they would be perceived by the middle of the electorate. (I'm not even talking about how they would be conceived by me... i didn't vote for any of them, but find Bush Sr and Dole a little tempting, and would've been tempted by Romney and maybe even 15 year ago McCain --- if they were running against SOME candidates --- except for that moronic hard right turn both took DURING election season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well, he knows how to self promote. That can be a really great tool, for becoming President. Not sure it's really useful, once you sit behind the desk. The Reagan presidency demonstrated that it absolutely is useful for being a president. The ability to control messaging and conversation about your policy initiatives and secure favorable media coverage is a tremendous asset for a presidency. How else was Reagan able to institute so many policies that directly contravened reality or the good of the overwhelming majority, and do so with virtually no negative press during the first six years of his presidency? Slashing taxes for the richest will make everyone else wealthier too. The tiny third world nation of Nicaragua is a dire threat to the security of the United States. We can massively cut taxes and massively increase military expenditure without exploding the National debt. We can gut the social safety net without ravaging the poor and we can fight and win a war on drugs and crime through the creation of a private prison industrial complex and the mass incarceration of minorities. How else is he still held up as the patron saint of the GoP by Republicans despite his presidency being a disaster of awful policy that raped the post-war prosperity and strength of the country and did more to contribute our biggest social problems today than anyone else? Expert PR and personal self promotion. Cult of personality that is seemingly even more potent today than it was during his presidency. People trusted Reagan even as he told them obvious lies and intellectually shallow nonsense about his policies because they liked him and didn't want to believe that the man who seemed so congenial and sincere was lying to them or treating them like they were stupid. Even many Democrats who knew he was selling bull**** were afraid to oppose him because they believed he was massively popular. Donald Trump is notgood at self promotion. He's a clown. Nobody likes him or believes his bull**** except the most ignorant and misinformed part of our electorate (which is apparently large and centralized enough within the Republican party to create a plurality in a crowded GoP field). And even then I'm not sure that a lot of those supporters only do so because they think he's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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