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Election 16: Donald Trumps wins Presidency. God Help us all!

88Comrade2000

By 88Comrade2000
in The Tailgate

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Popeman38

Popeman38

Posted
Posted
Just now, Predicto said:

 

The deficit and debt sure as hell did.  

Using that logic, the deficit and debt got much worse under Obama. Does that mean the country is worse off now than it was 8 years ago?

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

 

I don't know if Clinton 42 surrounded himself with the kinds of men that Trump surrounds himself. However Clinton 42 conducted himself, he did appoint more women to his cabinet and at least publicly didn't defame an entire sex like Trump does.

So by that, you mean its not a rape culture when the Democrat does it? I mean, you posted an article that showed Trump was accused of sexual assault and harassment. Last I checked, Bill Clinton was accused too. Why is it a rape culture when a candidate is accused but not when the President is accused?

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Popeman38

Popeman38

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Predicto said:

I don't think Bill Clinton can run for President anymore.

Oh wait, you are blaming Hillary for what Bill may have done.  

I get it.  Ha ha  nevermind then

You know what I meant. Please explain how I blamed Hillary for a damn thing.  I do not like Trump and there is no posting history of me defending him or supporting him. I will not vote for him. But this thread has turned into a circle jerk. It is not a thread for discourse, it is one-sided and anyone not on that side is dismissed and ridiculed. That is not an environment that fosters healthy discourse.

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

 it is one-sided and anyone not on that side is dismissed and ridiculed. That is not an environment that fosters healthy discourse.

I agree with that philosophically. So, give us a healthy reason to support Trump and not be dismissive or denigrating?

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Popeman38

Popeman38

Posted
Posted
Just now, Burgold said:

I agree with that philosophically. So, give us a healthy reason to support Trump and not be dismissive or denigrating?

There doesn't have to be a reason to support him to not be an ass to those who do. There are posters who have stated anyone supporting Trump is an idiot. You can loathe the candidate without being condescending.

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Using that logic, the deficit and debt got much worse under Obama. Does that mean the country is worse off now than it was 8 years ago?

 

 

No, actually the deficit has gotten got much, much better under Obama.  Here is a chart from the Wall Street Journal.  As you can see, the deficit was at its worst in 2009, the last year the government operated under a budget set by the Bush Administration.  As you can see, the deficit has gotten smaller every single year Obama has been in office, and is now less than a third of what it was under the last Bush budget.

deficit.jpgfree image uploading

  

Of course, the total debt got worse, because it is cumulative.   Obama has not yet achieved a surplus, so there is always more debt every year.  Of course, every President since George Washington has increased the debt, if you use that kind of a measure.  

Ronald Reagan cut taxes, increased spending, and said that deficits don't matter.   As a percentage of the economy, he increased both the deficit and the debt more than any other president in modern times.

14 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

 

So by that, you mean its not a rape culture when the Democrat does it? I mean, you posted an article that showed Trump was accused of sexual assault and harassment. Last I checked, Bill Clinton was accused too. Why is it a rape culture when a candidate is accused but not when the President is accused?

 

No, by that I meant that Hillary Clinton is the one running for office, this year, against Donald Trump.   Not Bill Clinton.   Endlessly bringing up Bill Clinton this year in an effort to deflect from Donald Trump's misdeeds ignores who Donald Trump actually is running against.  

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Popeman38

Popeman38

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Predicto said:

 

No, actually the deficit has gotten got much, much better under Obama.  Here is a chart from the Wall Street Journal.  As you can see, the deficit was at its worst in 2009, the last year the government operated under a budget set by the Bush Administration.  As you can see, the deficit has gotten smaller every single year Obama has been in office, and is now less than a third of what it was under the last Bush budget.

Rule 11. 

Of course, the total debt got worse, because it is cumulative.   Obama has not yet achieved a surplus, so there is always more debt every year.  Of course, every President since George Washington has increased the debt, if you use that kind of a measure.  

Ronald Reagan cut taxes, increased spending, and said that deficits don't matter.   As a percentage of the economy, he increased both the deficit and the debt more than any other president in modern times.

You fail at posting images. :)

I was using the link in the previous post. 2015 is higher than 2014, and it is no longer projected. Hell, today is the last day of FY16.

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted

Actually I believe you are mistaken.  The deficit in 2015 was smaller than 2014.  And 2014 was smaller than 2013.  And so on.   Obama has reduced the deficit every single year he has been in office.  

 https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-budget-deficit-falls-8-low-2015-194021330.html?ref=gs

Sorry I grabbed the first chart I saw, and didn't notice it was a year old.  I chose the Wall Street Journal one so that no one could claim I was using a source with a liberal bias. :)

 

And you still haven't responded to the main point - you know, comparing how Obama and Reagan did with regard to deficits.  

 

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visionary

visionary

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

There doesn't have to be a reason to support him to not be an ass to those who do. There are posters who have stated anyone supporting Trump is an idiot. You can loathe the candidate without being condescending.

It's difficult to respond to someone (in general) supporting Trump and using the sort of 'logic' we've seen people often use in support of him, without getting upset.  

People should avoid being needlessly insulting, but should not have to pretend they are ok with it.  

 

As for things being one-sided.  Eh.  That's how Trump has made things.  He fuels the coverage and the masses eat it up both positively and negatively.

 

(though there has been quite a bit of discussion of Hillary in here as well)

 

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

You know what I meant. Please explain how I blamed Hillary for a damn thing.  I do not like Trump and there is no posting history of me defending him or supporting him. I will not vote for him. But this thread has turned into a circle jerk. It is not a thread for discourse, it is one-sided and anyone not on that side is dismissed and ridiculed. That is not an environment that fosters healthy discourse.

 

I'm sorry.  I may have mistaken you for other posters who do raise Bill in order to try to deflect because they support Trump.   My bad.  

And honestly, the discourse is one-sided because, bottom line, the comparison between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is one sided.   Trump is infinitely less qualified and more horrible.  Anyone who defends him with right wing talking points is going to get blasted here, because we (mostly) know what we are talking about and they Should Get Blasted for being so ignorant (or dishonest).   And anyone who says "they both suck equally" will also get blasted, and rightfully so, because false equivalency is another form of deflection and is bullcrap.

Sometimes more reasonable posters like you get caught in the crossfire.  We are all a little frustrated at how long this Trump farce has been going on, and our trigger fingers get itchy.    :)  

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BornaSkinsFan83

BornaSkinsFan83

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Wait...Is someone complaining because opponents of Trump have LOWERED the level of discourse?  Am I reading that right?

Won't someone think of the poor Trump supporters!! They have feelings too goddammit!!

 

**** 'em all. This isn't a normal election. If people haven't figured that out by now I don't know what to tell them.

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Popeman38

Popeman38

Posted
Posted
Just now, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

Won't someone think of the poor Trump supporters!! They have feelings too goddammit!!

 

**** 'em all. This isn't a normal election. If people haven't figured that out by now I don't know what to tell them.

And this is exactly what I was talking about. "If you disagree with me, **** you" and then justifying it with bad logic, "It's not a normal election." Please explain how this election, scheduled every 4 years for the same office, isn't a normal election?

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Popeman38 said:

And this is exactly what I was talking about. "If you disagree with me, **** you" and then justifying it with bad logic, "It's not a normal election." Please explain how this election, scheduled every 4 years for the same office, isn't a normal election?

 

FYI, I just edited my posts from a few minutes ago.  Don't want there to be any misunderstandings.   :cheers:

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

Won't someone think of the poor Trump supporters!! They have feelings too goddammit!!

 

**** 'em all. This isn't a normal election. If people haven't figured that out by now I don't know what to tell them.

I'm of both minds. Usually, I lean towards respect and I still do, but the Trump supporters decried that they hated PCism and adored Trump for being blunt, rude, and obnoxious to his opponents. They said that was being "real"

Now, as with most bullies it seems that the Trumpsters and the like are demanding civility and PCness towards their candidate. Trump has even whined "they're saying mean and not nice things" about him. Seriously? If you can't take the heat stop starting fires!

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visionary

visionary

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

And this is exactly what I was talking about. "If you disagree with me, **** you" and then justifying it with bad logic, "It's not a normal election." Please explain how this election, scheduled every 4 years for the same office, isn't a normal election?

Well, if you haven't figured this out, maybe you haven't been reading as much of this thread as you say you have.  How many historically unprecedented decisions from conservative newspapers and Republicans going against the GOP nominee is necessary for this to be not a normal election?

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