tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 i'm hoping 1 or 2 of them actually establish themselves as viable presidential candidates. i'm expecting them all to behave like dogs chasing a stick; trump will be the one throwing the stick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I really don't think it's possible for a candidate to establish himself as Presidential in these things. Especially considering the limited amount of time each will get. Like many political endeavors, I suspect this is something that the candidate can't win, he can only lose. (And most of them will be trying not to lose.) OK, maybe the folks at the kiddie table will try to grab some headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 So, anybody cheering for/against anything in the debate, tonight? Me, I think it would be OK if this marked the end of Trump. Yeah, he's entertaining. (In a dangerous "hey, this is really happening" kind of way.) But frankly, I expect people like Cruz and Cristie and Paul to be just as entertaining. In ways that I think will be much harder for the GOP to disclaim. And I'd like for the media to be paying more attention to them. I'd like to see Cruz implode, though I doubt it will happen. Rather, I'd like to see somebody else on the stage blame him for the Gov Shutdown...and others pile on. Tomorrow I'd like to see guys like Huckabee, Santorium, Jindal...just beyond done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If this was anything other than a Fox News run debate, I would expect a debate, or at least a question or two on Planned Parenthood, abortion and such. But since I expect Fox News to know better - I wonder if it will even get brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 For: as much abortion talk as possible. I am hoping for another Todd Akin moment. This is a losing issue for the GOP in my opinion and I do not understand their strategy of tying PP defunding to passing the budget (for any GOP members supporting that) Maybe not a "for," but I am looking forward to Trump in general. There is nothing off limits for him. I want Rick Perry in this debate just so I can see Trump call him stupid on stage, which would absolutely happen. Maybe not good that I want a WWE event when one of these guys could be the next President, but I'm not responsible for this circus. Against: Obama talk. We get it, he's the antichrist and has been since 2008. None of the candidates will have a view that is significantly different from that (or different from the other R candidates). If it has to happen I hope the questions are "how would you have done <specific event> differently?" For: any hint that even one of these guys is not as far right as I think. The absolute worst thing that could happen for this country is ending up with two more Scalias on the Supreme Court in the next 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I really don't think it's possible for a candidate to establish himself as Presidential in these things. Especially considering the limited amount of time each will get. Like many political endeavors, I suspect this is something that the candidate can't win, he can only lose. (And most of them will be trying not to lose.) OK, maybe the folks at the kiddie table will try to grab some headlines. Maybe. Well, probably. There might be an opportunity for someone to actually show themselves as a leader. I have a feeling it'll be more about pandering and trying to one-up Trump. I'm not attached to either party at this time, so I still hold on to this ridiculous notion that we might get a quality candidate from each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm really not sure I want Cruz to implode. Despite the fact that I think the man, or at least the policies he advocates, say that he should be institutionalized. I want him to get lots of air time. I want him to lay out his proposals for his objectives. Heck, I want him to be the face of the Republican Party. I mean, to me, the fact that Ted Cruz is the #2 GOP candidate, in terms of fundraising, (with almost as much as Hillary, although Jeb is ahead of either of them by 2 to 1), says more about today's GOP than Trump looking good in the polls If this was anything other than a Fox News run debate, I would expect a debate, or at least a question or two on Planned Parenthood, abortion and such. But since I expect Fox News to know better - I wonder if it will even get brought up. Oh, I think that if the Dems could hack into the broadcast, and insert the question of their choice, I'd ask each candidate how they feel about the recent Supreme Court decisions, and what they expect to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Larry, you made me think of this, but it's not just you... But I'm confused with some of you guys. You say your problem with the GOP is with the extreme, that you're moderate/independent/not party affiliated, but you advocate for the most extreme rep for the party. It seems like you say if the party wasn't so extreme you'd consider their viewpoint, in the next breath you say you want the party to be extreme... I don't understand it. Why is anyone that's not extreme to the right, or totally committed to the democrat party, advocating for someone like Ted Cruz? That likely spells doom for the party, and if he was somehow elected it would be terrible for most of your viewpoints... If you are moderate/independent/etc it would seem to me you'd be rooting for someone to lead the GOP that's not on that extreme right... unless you're not actually moderate/independent/etc and you're not interested in having a viable GOP candidate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm not attached to either party at this time, so I still hold on to this ridiculous notion that we might get a quality candidate from each. Each? It's looking like "either" is too much to hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Each? It's looking like "either" is too much to hope for. I did qualify it as a 'ridiculous notion' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm really not sure I want Cruz to implode. Despite the fact that I think the man, or at least the policies he advocates, say that he should be institutionalized. Cruz as a debater scares me. As we saw with Mitt Romney's nonexistent tax plan in 2012, it doesn't really matter if what you're advocating makes no sense. Romney was dangerously close to winning before the 47% comment because he was sharp and Obama "seemed tired" in the first debate. I don't like it, but this is the nonsense that changes polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If this was anything other than a Fox News run debate, I would expect a debate, or at least a question or two on Planned Parenthood, abortion and such. But since I expect Fox News to know better - I wonder if it will even get brought up. "This question is for Mr. Rubio. On a scale of 1-10, how much do you love America?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Larry, you made me think of this, but it's not just you... But I'm confused with some of you guys. You say your problem with the GOP is with the extreme, that you're moderate/independent/not party affiliated, but you advocate for the most extreme rep for the party. It seems like you say if the party wasn't so extreme you'd consider their viewpoint, in the next breath you say you want the party to be extreme... I don't understand it. My position: The GOP is extreme. It's been literally redefining extreme, for the last 15 years or so. I want them to be honest about it. (Or, maybe a better way to express it is: I want the voters to see it.) Those extreme positions and policies that Ted Cruz owes his fame and success to? Every single Republican in Congress agreed with him. Every state where the GOP has control, is competing with every other state to be more extreme than the others. They don't want to cut taxes on the rich, any more. They want to completely eliminate them. Now, show me a GOP candidate who is moderate? Who'll stand up to The Party of Stupid, and actually do some good for the country? Yeah, I'll consider him. But I don't believe that there is such a person in today's GOP. They've been purged with the same fervor that McCarthy showed to the commies. Sorry. but I'm firmly convinced that there are two kinds of Republicans, for the last 10 years: 1) Rush Limbaugh extremists. 2) And Rush Limbaugh extremists who are smart enough to claim to be moderate, long enough to get elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Right, I guess my problem is that you say that, then root for chaos. Instead of rooting for the party to be fixed. Again, it's not just you. It's majority of the people who claim to be independent/moderate. Their desire seems to be to watch the GOP burn to the ground, leaving us with one party... It's like a death spiral. The GOP is pandering to the extremes because that's where most of their support is, so they keep outdoing each other to be more extreme to get more support from 'the base.' Meanwhile the people claiming to be moderates don't have any desire to give the GOP support, then **** that the GOP doesn't ever seem to try to reach out to them. Jeb Bush seems more of a moderate to me, but he has the wrong last name for too many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Yeah people would prefer chaos, they really don't want a good presidential candidate. I am sure the world laughs at us. I wonder which Bush Clinton will run in 8 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Not sure if a debate is where anybody will ever see a party get "right". Especially a primary debate. Who knows? Maybe somebody says "Look, the only way this works long-term is if we stop treating the other side as enemies...and start looking for common ground again." Of course, that person would get crushed as a socialist. But the adult in the room that says there will be give and take to make it work. I hope Trump out of nowhere says there needs to be term limits on the Hill. That actually would make him more popular. CNN to host first Democratic presidential debate Washington (CNN)CNN and the Democratic National Committee announced Thursday the network will host the first Democratic primary debate in Nevada on October 13. The exact location will be announced in the coming weeks. The announcement adds to the trio of Republican debates CNN is hosting, the first of which is September 16 at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. The field of major Democratic candidates is significantly smaller than the 17-member Republican one, at five candidates, and it's been dominated by frontrunner Hillary Clinton. But that hasn't stopped candidates like Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders from running neck-and-neck with Clinton in New Hampshire or former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley from clamoring for more debates. The field, meanwhile, could expand from five to six, if Vice President Joe Biden decides to enter the fray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I wonder which Bush Clinton will run in 8 more years. With any luck, Billy... and George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 So, anybody cheering for/against anything in the debate, tonight? Me, I think it would be OK if this marked the end of Trump. Yeah, he's entertaining. (In a dangerous "hey, this is really happening" kind of way.) But frankly, I expect people like Cruz and Cristie and Paul to be just as entertaining. In ways that I think will be much harder for the GOP to disclaim. And I'd like for the media to be paying more attention to them. I would like for Kasich to look like a better alternative to Bush for the nomination. I want to see someone have a Perry- Oops type moment. I want Bush to have a grievous, campaign damaging error. From the junior debate, I want Carly to do well enough; so she can rise some in the polls. I want her to be around and in the second debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If this was anything other than a Fox News run debate, I would expect a debate, or at least a question or two on Planned Parenthood, abortion and such. But since I expect Fox News to know better - I wonder if it will even get brought up. Chris Wallace is co-moderator, along with Megyn Kelly and Brett Baier. He's said his goal is to push the candidates off their scripts...try to get the candidates out of robo-candidate mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Chris Wallace is co-moderator, along with Megyn Kelly and Brett Baier. He's said his goal is to push the candidates off their scripts...try to get the candidates out of robo-candidate mode. If he wants to do that. Then he needs to clearly say "Ok, you didn't answer the question....moving on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 If you are real partisan Dem and even Republican; you want the worst possible candidate for the other party. That makes it easier for your candidate to win. Also, you want the other party to be wiped off the face of the earth. I personally want both parties to be weakened. They no longer represent the average American. They cater to their special interests/donors on the left and right I want a viable third party to become permanent. If the Repubs nominate a Ted Cruz; it might be the best thing for them, long term. The right would be discredited, because Cruz would lose badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Rand Paul: I’m Ready To ‘Mix It Up’ In Tonight’s Debate WASHINGTON (CBSDC/AP) — Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., is ready to take the gloves off at tonight’s Republican presidential debate. Speaking to “CBS This Morning” on Thursday, the GOP presidential candidate says he’s ready to “mix it up” with the other nine candidates who will share the stage with him. “Why not mix it up on the ideas and issues of the day? It doesn’t mean it has to be impolite, doesn’t mean it has to be rude, but we need to mix it up because really this campaign and who becomes the president ought to be about ideas and who can best lead the country,” the Kentucky senator said. “And I don’t think … you can just say anything and all of a sudden we’re in some sort of reality TV show. I think there needs to be a substantive debate.” Paul enters tonight’s first debate well behind the pack. The latest CBS News poll shows Paul only garnering 4 percent of support from Republican voters. Donald Trump leads all candidates at 24 percent. Paul explained to “CBS This Morning” he has been having trouble getting traction to get his message out because of the “billion dollars’ worth of news media” coverage for Trump. More from the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Right, I guess my problem is that you say that, then root for chaos. Instead of rooting for the party to be fixed. Again, it's not just you. It's majority of the people who claim to be independent/moderate. Their desire seems to be to watch the GOP burn to the ground, leaving us with one party... It's like a death spiral. The GOP is pandering to the extremes because that's where most of their support is, so they keep outdoing each other to be more extreme to get more support from 'the base.' Meanwhile the people claiming to be moderates don't have any desire to give the GOP support, then **** that the GOP doesn't ever seem to try to reach out to them. Jeb Bush seems more of a moderate to me, but he has the wrong last name for too many people. What about Bush makes you think he's a moderate? I actually liked his dad and have looked at his record, but other than immigration I don't see much there that makes him a moderate. (And realistically, his views on immigration are wrong I think. The idea of border security as long as there are jobs here for them isn't realistic. The key would be to make the jobs dry up, but neither the Republicans or Democrats are going to do that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 What about Bush makes you think he's a moderate? First - let me say I haven't put a whole lot of research into Bush because, at the end of the day, I don't consider him electable. Second - The GOP has set the bar so far, most reasonable republicans have some way to claim they're a moderate these days. He's for common core, he has thoughtful/reasonable opinions on immigration (he even spoke in spanish because, omg they are people too!), and from what I seem to see/remember he's not overly zealous about gay marriage or forcing christianity down people's throats. That seems pretty damn moderate for a GOP person these days. I have no idea what his tax/economic policy is/would be, and I have no idea what his foreign policy is/would be. Like I said, I haven't dug too deep on him because I just don't see him being the nominee. But those few things above seem to separate him quite significantly from the rest of the GOP field in terms of 'being moderate.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Right, I guess my problem is that you say that, then root for chaos. Instead of rooting for the party to be fixed. In my view the GOP policies are generally the opposite of what we should do (on nearly all social issues and taxation I am for the opposite of what they propose). Why exactly should I want a party of bad ideas to be "fixed?" I want them to lose, and then to be replaced with different ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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