Has The Read Option Suddenly Made Qbs Cheap?

[NoCalMike]

Ok, here is one guy you can use to counter this argument: Tim Tebow.

Tim Tebow could run the read option if asked. He is athletic enough. The problem is, he can't consistently make the throws necessary to be an NFL QB so what would happen eventually is defenses would game plan to minimize what he could get out of his athleticism and go ahead and force him to win games with his arm which he can't do. Michael Vick is similar although still way better of a passer than Tebow.

 

What you see in Kap & RG3, & Wilson are QBs...........who are athletes too. If you cheat the defense up to stop a would-be option run? They will run a fake and throw a 25 yard strike downfield right on the money.  That is the game-changer right there.  Even Terelle Pryor was a pretty good prospect but fell off the map because of personal troubles.

 

The ability to make the throws is still the first thing you look at when scouting a QB.

 

Right now I think Kap might have the best numbers out of the crop this season, because he is playing behind an O-line of steel.  Every time he drops back he has all day to throw the ball around. It was ridiculous watching the game yesterday and seeing him just stand there forever before needing to throw the ball.

[NoCalMike]

Also, something you saw a lot of yesterday was that the threat to run is just as bad as when the QB actually runs.

 

Pryor ran for 100, but that was mostly due to the necessity of running for his life because of his O-line.

 

A lot of the RO QBs would use the pistol formation merely to get the defense to have to game plan for 3 different things at once.

 

If you watched the SF/GB game, even when Kap/Gore screwed up the RO handoff later in the game, it still faked out Matthews enough to result in positive yards gained.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I was gonna say the same thing NoCal.  Defenses are terrified of this thing.  Everyone keeps saying "when defenses figure out how to stop it", but I'm not so sure they ever will.

 

The rules on defense suck.  Nobody can put their hands on anyone anymore.  Take the over on every game for the entire season and you cna probably retire. 

[chipman5544]

Hindsight is 20/20, but we could have gotten Russell Wilson without giving up two first rounders to move up and get him. Honestly had we picked him up in the second round we could have gotten a guy like Luke Kuechly in the first, or even moved down and stocked up on more picks while picking up a guy like Doug Martin. There are all sorts of what-ifs, I think this class of quarterbacks, including Kap, is so strong that the game is evolving. They run this type of offense to perfection, because they have NFL caliber arms as well as the ability to run. It is still tough to find a guy who can throw the ball as well as Kap, Wilson, RGIII do and have their speed and open-field ability. More colleges are switching to systems that involve running quarterbacks, but the best of the best will eventually show, and those guys will make the big bucks 

[UK_HOG]

There will still be a hierarchy amongst the "read option" QBs.  Green Bay took away the read option plays against the 49ers but in doing so they left huge holes in there zone defense for Kaepernick to abuse.  If the read option was all that Kaepernick had then the Packers would have won comfortably.  RG3, Kaep and Wilson will separate themselves from the rest of the Read Option QBs because they have all the tools and not just the athleticism.

[nemocystem]

I just think that coordinator's have discovered a system that affords these more atletic QB's a smoother transition into the NFL. The game is faster & way more complicated than college & a lot of relly well thought of QB's struggle with that transition. All they have done is work in a system where these more athletic QB's can

1) avoid too much contact...yes, AVOID too much contact. Let's not forget that teams drafting QB's almost always have serious O-line issues to go along with the why's & how's. and i agree with the Shanahan's in saying that a QB takes way more punishment in the pocket with a squeaky O-line than he does if he takes off & protects himself.

2) it's not a base offense. You run it, & you show it a lot of the time...but in reality...it only gets used about 17% of all offensive plays.

3) what this does specifically is it simplifies the game for the QB. It minimizes his read responsibilities & takes away all the excess thinking that goes on for a young NFL QB. Let's also not forget that Luck went to Stanford & has a photographic memory. Playing QB is relatively easy for him....a rare talent indeed.

4) some guys...while they will have moderate success using their legs & running the RO...i don't see them showing the same type of passing & progression read ability as guys like RW, RGIII, & Kaep. Although...of note, watching the GB & Seattle games yesterday i noticed that RW & Kaep still lock onto receivers a lot & don't really progress beyond their first 2 reads. I expect this to change at some point...but i almost think that they're protected more by the talent that surrounds them rather than them making players better a' la Manning the elder.

The thing that jumps out the most as a separate quality with these guys is leadership & their arm strength & accuracy. They have all the tools to be legit QB's, but that mental part has to catch up with the rest of their game.

On a sidenote...what i saw more from last year, & yesterday's games were par for the course imo, is that RGIII put a team of average to above average dudes (mostly due to injury), a suspect O-line, & a down-trodden franchise on his back & used all of his talents to make plays & will us to victory at times.

Heck...i think he would have had 5 comeback victories if Joshua Morgan doesn't take a boneheaded penalty at the end of the Rams game & RGIII just throws the ball away & takes 3 pts in the ATL game instead of that wicked hit. Actually...6...if you take away Madieu Williams watching Victor Cruz run by him like he was watching a ballet.

Anywho...i don't think you can expect to plug n' play this system as a base...but it certainly works as a stipend to limit a rookie QB's penchant for mistakes, & avoid too much exposure to blind-side shellackings.

My 2¢

[Tyron Biggums]

A very intriguing question, OP.  Actually, one intriguing question and one natural question, respectively:  Is the read option from the pistol formation changing the position of QB so much that it substantially expands the number of persons that can be an effective QB, thereby diluting the premium placed on finding an effective QB?  And, two, in light of the answer to question one, did we overpay for RGII?

 

Kyle's changed the game.  He didn't introduce a gimmick or start a fad.  The read option is here to stay for the foreseeable future.  Other teams have copied it and after a year of confusing defenses, the only response that defenses have articulated is that they need to hit the QB.  They've had a year, and that's their best, most innovative response:  hit the player with the ball.

 

Does it expand the potential number of candidates that can play the QB position effectively?  Yes.  And it is about time.  Sure, you need a quality passer and runner.  You need someone good at reading the dive.  You need a good running back and some good receivers.  But what you don't need is someone with a near supernatural ability to throw super accurately, throw very deep, and to have a sick sense of timing just to win.  You just need someone that is good, not some phenom that comes around once in a generation. 

 

Did we over pay for RGII?  In a word, no.  He is an excellent QB w/o the ability to run.  He is one of those freaks of pure passing nature that only come around oh so rarely.  But he also has the ability to run exceptionally well.  And he's probably durable than people think:  he's 6'2" and about 230 lbs.  He's the size of Adrian Peterson and that dude can take a licking last time I checked.

You nailed it! That's exactly how I feel about RG3 and the R/O.

 

Well done. Thank you

[Kindred]

I think what we are seeing is the success of the read option and the fact that it's success in opening up the passing game ALLOWS lesser QB's to do well.  

 

Now just because lesser qb's can do fairly well doesnt mean that exceptional QB's cant do even better,  it just means that not all is lost if you lose your starting QB because others can adequately fill in.  Game changing QB's like RG3 can single handedly win games for us and can be the difference between a good team that makes it to the playoffs and an elite team that wins the superbowl. 

[CBass1724]

I think you can hide a mediocre, athletic QB in this type of offense - basically like Pryor in Oakland - and they can look "less bad," yet be competitive.  The passing decisions are easier and less complex.  But if you have one of the special QB's like RG3, Kaep, RW, etc, you can have an offense that is tough to beat and can look unstoppable at times because of the passing AND running threat.  You can also take one of those special guys, put him in a standard offense and they would succeed because they are good at what they do and have the necessary physical and mental tools to succeed.

 

It's amazing to watch this transformation of the QB position.  Who would have thought a few years ago that you can have a QB as good as Tom Brady, with the wheels of a Michael Vick?  Could you imagine if Peyton Manning could run like RG3? 

 

With that being said, you can't just pull random fast guys off the street and convince yourself you have an NFL caliber QB.  How did Tarvaris Jackson do in the NFL?  The dude can't throw.  We are just seeing a special breed of athlete come into the NFL now, with coaches that are willing to adapt.

[NomadicSkinFan]

No, I don't think we overpaid for RG3.  If anything, Wilson and Kaep are like finding a rare painting at a local garage sale, but not finding out until it's hung on your wall and someone else points it out.  That's what the Shanahan's did.  By putting RG3 into the offense they did and showing how dangerous it could be, they actually gave Wilson and Kaep their value.  If RG3 gets drafted by someone else and put into a traditional offense, there's a decent chance Flynn and Smith are starting for Seahawks and 49ers right now.

[Tay]

It's just an added dimension. The cream will rise, and the best QB's will still be the most valued players in football, by a long shot

[RWJ]

The only concern I have with RG3 is his size/build.  He doesn't have the frame that Kap, Newton or Luck have.  Thus, I don't think he can take the number of hits they can.  Learning to slide and get out of bounds sooner will prolong his career.  Other than that to me he is better in every other category than ALL the others are.

[Pastor Troy]

Geno smith and ej manuel are not read option qbs.....stop trying to lump them together because they are black,.......

[Veretax]

You can't compare the old guard QBs to peyton, eli, and Brady.  Those guys came into the league at a different time, without the Rookie salary slotting we have today.  They'd be making a bit more I think.  Also, this is what Peyton's third or 4th contract?  I think this is much adieu about nothing.

[Jumbo]

Geno smith and ej manuel are not read option qbs.....stop trying to lump them together because they are black,.......

  if you're looking for a quick exit, this is a good way to continue...

[DaGoonie55]

No.  We paid the right price.  The cost financially is right on the money.  Very valid question posted in the OP.

 

2 reasons.

 

1.  The kid is a freak.  End of point.

 

2.  We needed to see an investment pay off.  Going back to the Cerrato years and beyond, we have overspent on TONS of garbage that didn't payoff.  This move sealed my respect and patience in our front office. 

 

More to the point of the OP: no, read option is not lowering the pricetag of the QB - It is pointing out the unknowingly flawed QB rating system scouts use.  Thats all.  "Oh he runs a read option offense?  3rd round."  Now they have more to evaluate and learn.

HTTR

[Laron Burgundy]

Whereas it takes atleticism to run the Read Option; having natural instincts at running an offense is an entirely different conumdrum. 

 

I ran across a tweet by LL on Twitter saying and to paraphrase:  Kapernick still does not go through his progressions... he is still a one-read quarterback.  That is a huge indictment on Kap because anyone that watches him play can clearly see that he relies more on his athleticism versus his IQ.  I think that in a year or two, Kap will be a passing phase while QB's like Luck, Russell and Griffin go on to shine.

I have to disagree, Kap isn't dumb (scored a 37 of the wonderlic). I think the Packers sold out to stop the run and it cost them, plus their secondary is banged up AND they aren't overly talented to begin with, but Kap made great throws all day. You can't be as efficient as he is by forcing the ball into your first read. He might not be a 4 read qb, but he's certainly not a 1 read or run type either.

[Khun Kao]

I've been having a very similar discussion with my friends, though we don't really come around to the point of the QB position becoming undervalued.

 

As  others have said, the RO isn't really used as the base of an offense.  It's almost used as a "gadget" play to keep the defense on their heels.  What I think we *may* see is more teams look for QB's that have legs as well as arms, and then use the RO out of the Pistol formation to ease the transition into the NFL.  As others have also said, I think this will ultimately help preserve a young QB's health, minimizing the hits he is bound to take staying in the pocket.

 

I also agree with what has been said that it still boils down to having the arm, and having the accuracy.  Being athletic won't be enough.  The QB's will have to be able to make all the throws, or they simply won't last long.

 

Finally, I think that athletic QB's who succeed using their legs (RO or otherwise) will slowly transition to become pocket passers, more or less.  While I hate to mention his name, Donavan McNabb comes to mind.  Early in his career, he was dangerous due to his athletic ability.  He would take off running and drive a stake into your heart.  Over the years, he remained mobile, but took off running less and less, opting to throw from the pocket.  While we know that wasn't a particularly accurate passer, he saw a lot of success.

 

I can see RGIII, Kaep, Cam, and RW all transitioning in similar ways throughout the course of their careers.  Maybe its my bias, but I see RGIII potentially being the most successful of the four due to his ball skills, barring injury.

[darrelgreenie]

What the heck is a read option QB anyway?

Andrew Luck ran some read option too.

[Koolblue13]

I think OCs have been trying for a while to make the read option work, but its been so infrequent, that defenses haven't had to change. Now that enough young kids are being brought up in that style of offense, youre seeing the talent pool deepen a bit. My guess it well start seeing smaller quicker Dlineman and lbs who can cover more, while safeties will get smaller and faster and be used more to blitz, while lineman and lbs develop better coverage skills.

[MartinC]

What the heck is a read option QB anyway?

Andrew Luck ran some read option too.

 

I think people get awfully confused about read option and about what it does for an offense. For a start quite a few national football 'experts' in the media seem to have real trouble telling the difference between a pistol formation and a read option play.

 

I see it as another way for an offense to establish the running game and influence and freeze linebackers and edge rushers in particular. For it to be effective you need a QB who is mobile enough to be respected as a running threat - but you don't need a guy who can run a 4.3 or a 4.4. Then they need to be a good enough passer to make the throws downfield off play action to make the defense play for committing to stop the run or being frozen by the read action.

 

But thats no different really than say what Shanny has been doing with the stretch play off a ZBS and moving his QB off that action for years. It may be that on steroids but its the same principle.

 

Now to the OP - when Shanny was running his scheme with Jake Plummer it was effective. It was just much more effective with Steve Young and John Elway. In our current scheme you can take a 4th round pick with talent like Cousins and make him very effective but when you put an elite talent like RGIII in the scheme it becomes much more dangerous and productive - especially when you get off schedule and its about extending a play and making something happen.

 

So sure you could be effective with a guy you get in the 3rd or 4th round who has athletic ability and is a good enough passer. Give him a great defense and very good blocking and receivers and you can win - maybe the Division a couple of times and if you catch lightening in a bottle even a Lombardi. But put a guy like RGIII or an Elway or a Steve Young in this kind of scheme and you win multiple Super Bowls. That costs.

[Veretax]

One other thing I would say.  in 49ers case, I'd argue their receiving core is perhaps better than what we have three deep and tight ends.  Not saying we're not up there, with Garcon, Morgan, Hank, Moss, and Davis, but Boldin in particular looked a lot better.

[IrepDC]

I don't agree with this post or the line of thinking that you just run players ragged then throw their crippled bodies in the scrap and draft another. That line of thinking bothers me.

[ptr77]

I don't think it has made QBs cheap. RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc... All will get huge paydays at some point. Namely because they look like they are developing into QBs that could excel in almost any offense. What eventually could make Quarterbacks cheaper is teams could collect a bunch of guys like Pryor, Tebow, Pat White, Vince Young, etc.. simplify the offense to be basically the read option and a few select plays they practice the hell out of and have some success. The thing is, if you are running the Read Option in the NFL constantly you will need backups that can do it the same. So maybe you would be able to sign a couple of washouts to back up a good read option QB like Pryor or Vick, but when/if a team gameplans to shut that down entirely, the quarterback will still have to step up and make throws and play some sort of conventional offense, and as soon as a QB can do that you have to pay him big money anyways.

 

I do think eventually we could see a team try this on a large scale, and the results could be good for a while, but I don't see a Read-option only team winning it all. If I was the GM Jacksonville I would sign a bunch of read option QBs next year for camp (Webb, Young, Tebow, Vick, White, etc...) and try this since they never seem to bring in enough legit talent anyways, or spend money. I think the only large benefit to this strategy is you would pay 2-4 decent QBs 1-3 million a year each instead of one great QB 20 million dollars a year. The risk is that since you are basically treating the QB like a replaceable player and assigning a lower amount of cap to him, if you ever find a legit Quarterback or one with potential past excelling only in the read option another team will scoop him up easily with more money.

 

The Redskins offense is far from a read option only offense. RGIII's play fake (best in the league), running ability, cannon arm and ability to make throws under pressure or while moving away from pressure work in any offense. His value in my opinion has nothing to do with the Read option. Though I will say his talents and the Read Option threat make the passing attack and the max protect plays all that much more easier for him to read and make throws. Often guys are wide open because of the threat of RGIII running (linemen being less aggressive, guys staying home), the play fake, or the fact that he can buy time for guys to get open.

[Botched]

This is an interesting thought. We've seen running backs decline in importance over the past 15 years or so, to the point that you can win with just about anyone in the backfield.  It's not too far fetched to think that one day offenses will evolve to the point that we will see "plug and play" QBs.