zoony Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Just last year QB was the most difficult position in all of pro sports to fill. The Broncos gave Argentina's GDP to one guy... A 37 year old guy one play away from death. We traded two first rounders and a 2nd to get ours, a trade which most agreed was a savvy one. Now with the read option... Plug in your third or fourth round draft pick and he looks fine. Russell Wilson, Kaepernick, Geno Smith, now Terrell freakin Pryor. Hell, Pat White looked good out there. I'm wondering now, did we overpay for RGIII? I have been an adamant defender of the trade, but seeing what is going on around the league has me second guessing myself. Don't get me wrong I'm glad we have him and he is a great player no doubt. I just wonder if we could have had the same production in a later round. What will be interesting is to see how this shakes up NFL payrolls. If I were a coach or GM I would give serious thought to devoting my payroll to other positions, and pay whatever 5th round rookie I draft (who can run fast and throw decently) the league minimumto run the pistol almost every snap. When he blows out his knee or gets his 3rd concussion I just draft another. It just seems that for the first time in the last 25 years of the salary cap era, the QB position is cheap. I wonder if this is a fad or a trend here to stay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTerps26 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I don't post very much anymore, but this is possibly one if the worst post I've ever read. There are maybe 2 dozen people on the planet that can do what these guys do. They don't grow on trees simply because there were a few gems that came around that play like them. It's the equivalent of saying, lets just get a 6'5 guy that has some decent accuracy and make him a pocket QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 I don't post very much anymore, but this is possibly one if the worst posts I've ever read. There are maybe 2 dozen people on the planet that can do what these guys do. They don't grow on trees simply because there were a few gems that came around that play like them. It's the equivalent of saying, lets just get a 6'5 guy that has some decent accuracy and make him a pocket QB.I don't post much anymore either. And I think your post is the worst I've ever read. It's the equivalent of saying "I am a ginormous jackass who has an axe to grind. That, and I suck at reading"S we have a lot in common, you and me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaozerker Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 It might be another decade before we see another crop of QBs like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTerps26 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If you want to discuss how this may be a trend going forward, then you have something there. More QBs like these will be around. Doesn't mean there will dozens for all teams to cycle through and draft a new one in the 5th like you are replacing old razor cartridges. It's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 If you want to discuss how this may be a trend going forward, then you have something there. More QBs like these will be around. Doesn't mean there will dozens for all teams to cycle through and draft a new one in the 5th like you are replacing old razor cartridges. It's dumb. Yah, and Argentinas GDP might be a little more than what they are paying Peyton. I agree, lots of dumb in here id spell it out for you but why take away the fun. Hint, it's not pronounced hyper-bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTerps26 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 So in 3-4 years the Cams, Kaepernicks, Wilson's etc won't have massive contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGriffin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think the rules have something to do with it as well. The transition is just easier. That being said robert IMO has the best skill set out of all of them on top of top notch intangibles. So that being said I don't think we over paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnuv Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I would think that once defensive coordinators get better at teaching their players discipline against read options and such, that the "lesser" tier of qbs, the Pryors and the Geno Smiths, may not look so good against it, while the RG3s and the Kaepernicks will continue to show off their non-running skills. I think it will take a couple more years to really see how it all shakes out but I still think the cost for RG3 was worth it as he's going to continue to get better at the rest of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 It's definitely made playing madden online a lot more interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If he can remain healthy (relatively speaking), I think RG3 has the potential to do what all the other do, but better. Big if, though. Certainly, however, the deal's value doesn't seem very good now, but they couldn't have seen that coming back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac9 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Yeah, I think its a valid thought. Time will tell, but its fair to speculate that the complexity that goes into a game plan for a drop back QB isn't the same for a pistol/read and run QB. A standard drop back QB has to have a **** ton of complexity in the game plan and at the line calls to try to stay ahead of the defenses. The read and run QB can really create the same amount of 'thinking' in the opposing defense just from the physical threat of his athleticism. IF that's the case, then you don't need to be as cerebral, don't need to make as many calls at the line, don't need that special guy, like Manning, to run your O. And if they are cheap, then hell yeah, you'll run that kid into the ground and draft his replacement in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think it's a little early to react to these guys in their first games. Pryor faced an awful indy defense and made some atrociously bad throws in between his good ones. Wilson would have been a first rounder if he were 2 inches taller. And Geno wasn't exactly great in his first game, he certainly was no RG3. I think this post is an over-reaction, I guarantee you Pryor and Geno will have their awful games this season. I don't think either of those qb's will realistically have a chance at the super bowl. You pay for consistency at the qb position. A qb who will consistently get you to the playoffs, and consistently keep you in games, is better than a qb who might explode for 2 games and implode the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Yeah, I think its a valid thought. Time will tell, but its fair to speculate that the complexity that goes into a game plan for a drop back QB isn't the same for a pistol/read and run QB. A standard drop back QB has to have a **** ton of complexity in the game plan and at the line calls to try to stay ahead of the defenses. The read and run QB can really create the same amount of 'thinking' in the opposing defense just from the physical threat of his athleticism. IF that's the case, then you don't need to be as cerebral, don't need to make as many calls at the line, don't need that special guy, like Manning, to run your O. And if they are cheap, then hell yeah, you'll run that kid into the ground and draft his replacement in 3 years. Exactly right. QB of two years ago had to be a once in a generation talent to be successful. There were only about 5 people out of the 6 billion on this planet who could really do it. Not sure that's the case with the read option. Defenses have completely changed to respect the QBs ability to run, making the passing game, well, simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think it's a little early to react to these guys in their first games. Pryor faced an awful indy defense and made some atrociously bad throws in between his good ones. Wilson would have been a first rounder if he were 2 inches taller. And Geno wasn't exactly great in his first game, he certainly was no RG3. I think this post is an over-reaction, I guarantee you Pryor and Geno will have their awful games this season. I don't think either of those qb's will realistically have a chance at the super bowl. You pay for consistency at the qb position. A qb who will consistently get you to the playoffs, and consistently keep you in games, is better than a qb who might explode for 2 games and implode the next. We don't even need to talk about Smith and Pryor. I think just Kaep and Wilson should make us question the value of the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg28daman Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The only reason some of those guys were available so late is because up until last year, read option wasn't considered a "viable" offense. Think about how many guys in the past were successful option QBs in college who could never transition to the pros. Nowadays, those guys would have far more value. Now that the option has shown to have success, guys like Kaep would NEVER fall past the 1st round anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Nowadays, those guys would have far more value. Now that the option has shown to have success, guys like Kaep would NEVER fall past the 1st round anymore. Those guys can thank Griffin for their paychecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think we're seeing another era like '83 Elway, Marino, and Kelly when it comes to these qbs. Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck, and Robert are all special qb's. Not only can they run but they can sling it which is what makes them special. I wouldn't mention them in the same breath as Pryor or any of the other young qb's that you mentioned, especially with a one game sample size. They don't look like good passers to me but we'll see. I guess what I'm saying is that the read option is not the thing that makes Kaepernick, Wilson, and Robert successful. It's a wrinkle more than a foundation. They're good passers which is the primary reason they are special, not b/c of the running/athleticism and read option. That's an added element....a cherry on top if you will. So, you could argue that we overpaid, but I don't think you could make a strong argument that you can plug any late round athletic qb in a pro system (read option or not) and be successful. You could say we had a shot to make a move to get a guy like Kaepernick or Wilson, but we didn't. That's fair, but anybody can make that argument about any player whose talent was underrated or overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I was thinking something like this earlier today. Zoony isn't saying just anyone can just play QB but he is saying that guys that are more athlete than pure passer can have legit success now, which opens the window for more prospects to have legit NFL hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 You know what, zoony? I was thinking this same exact thing watching the games today. And, heck, even last year when both the Seahawks and 49ers basically implemented our offense to great success once they saw how effective it was. But then I remind myself about just how good Robert was last season both passing and running the RO. And how he was doing it better than anyone in the history of the NFL before it became the big thing to do. The Panthers had ran it the year before with Newton, but not like this and the formation we used. It was how we innovated with the pistol formation. It's how we were able to run the same ZBS Shanahan offense in it as well as Kyle's cover-2/cover-3 shell killing passing offense. I think it does give teams who are otherwise struggling offensively something simpler to run against defense's and, so, with an athletic QB they can compete offensively... but I don't think those teams who have those type of QBs will be able to be as multi-dimensional as a guy like Robert. Kaep was impressive as heck though today, but I think the team around him is ridiculously talented. His Oline alone makes it easier on him. I'm not sure if Kaep has the season Robert had last year if he was on our team. But, your point isn't as crazy as some might make it here. I think this style of offense may have just initiated a new era with more QBs who can do it becoming stars. That being said, it still doesn't mean they're all the same. Or that a better, more accurate passer now suddenly becomes less significant to have on your team. I believe Robert has better skills than any of these guys passing the ball. He has the fastest release, is the most accurate and, in my opinion, is the best decision maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm wondering if any team has failed implementing a read option offense so far, but one thing to note is that Cam, Kaep, and Wilson were all fantastic passers in college. I think they could have success in normal offenses. Cam flatlined today against a talented defense, and I expect the lesser RO qbs to do just that. Now, I think if the worst teams are able to just ratchet together an effective offense, one that consistently produces, with 2nd day or later draft picks, then maybe we overpaid for RG3, but at the same time we got the most electric player in the league. Our offense is actually FUN to watch. I couldn't honestly say that in quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinSkinsWin83 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Let's not forget Pryor was a five star recruit. White was doing good vs # 2s. And for all this Read Option discussions. We need look at what was RG3 in Mike's WCO traditional offense. It was pretty dang good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Going to go with no. If RG3 was merely a great athlete with an average arm, etc. Then yeah they'd be as expendable as running backs. But Robert's ability to throw the ball/make all NFL throws, leadership, intangibles etc. separate him from most of these guys. One game doesn't make a season. The game is always changing/evolving. Offense evolves, defense catches up, offense moves forward again. I think the trend makes the transition from college to pro easier, but the cream will separate so to speak. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think the Jury is still out... Perhaps it is easier to find QB to be servicable now that you can run read option type of offense and utilize athletic QBs but the goal for everyone is to win the Super Bowl. If the momentum didnt change with the power outage in the Super Bowl, you saw how much Ravens were able to limit 49er's offense. Also you saw what Panther's defense did against Wilson yesterday. Until these athletic QBs can put up the production consistantly over the years and also able to win the post season on consistant basis and win the Super Bowl. The jury is still out... I also think we haven't seen the NFL defenses adjust to the new offenses yet. Its something I am looking forward to most this year. To see how creative NFL defensives get to stop these guys... Also lets give these guys new guys Pryor, Manuels, and Smith more time to see if they can actually play.... There wasnt much tape on them until now. Remember even Mark Sanchez looked servicable in the first two years before the league got a good tape on him. Or remember Vince Young or Josh Freeman when they entered the league... They looked pretty darn good being able to use their athletic ability to their advanatage... Now one is pretty much out of a job and the other one is on his way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieskin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The read option game is for specific offenses, with specific QB's who can play it properly ie RG3, i dont see it defining the game but i do see it defining the offenses that are able to use it properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.