***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

The East was WAY tougher back then though. Jordan had to get through the Bad Boy Pistons, Ewing's Knicks, Miller's Pacers etc. Who has Lebron's biggest foe been in the East? An old and worn out Celtics? The charmin soft Pacers?

The Pistons were the only great team in that bunch, and they were old and worn down from their 80s wars when the Bulls beat them.

 

Lebron had to get by the Celtics, who were better than those teams minus the Pistons.

 

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

You mean being able to clothline opponents would make a team less efficient?? 

 

This need by some to justify GS or LeBron is humorous. 

 

Like Kerr said, only in basketball do athletes some and hte way the sport is played declines goes backwards lol.

[Renegade7]

I'll say this, I barely remember Jordan in his heyday, but I've seen LeBron's teams just get completely overpowered in the finals. 

 

I think of those two time he lost to the Spurs (once with Cleveland and once with Miami) and this just happened Warriors team, it just felt like there was nothing he could do to stop them in any of those three series.  Dude averaged a triple double in this last finals, and they almost got swept anyway.

 

This not a vote for LeBron over Jordan, just something I've noticed and seen first hand.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Renegade7

[Mr. Sinister]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The East was WAY tougher back then though. Jordan had to get through the Bad Boy Pistons, Ewing's Knicks, Miller's Pacers etc. Who has Lebron's biggest foe been in the East? An old and worn out Celtics? The charmin soft Pacers?

 

 

[Hersh]

35 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The Pistons were the only great team in that bunch, and they were old and worn down from their 80s wars when the Bulls beat them.

 

Lebron had to get by the Celtics, who were better than those teams minus the Pistons.

 

Like Kerr said, only in basketball do athletes some and hte way the sport is played declines goes backwards lol.

 

Kerr's argument doesn't take into account anything such as different rules and when the three point line became a part of the game or the different ways guys train now. I guess it's easy to pretend that the Lakers or Celtics or Bulls weren't great passing team in a time when players could get mugged without more than a foul. Like I said, it's humorous watching people makes claims in order to justify GS being the greatest or LeBron being the greatest. 

 

"Hey GS was so much better at shooting 3's than teams in the 70's so they would be the greatest of that decade!!"

Edited June 16, 2017 by Hersh

[Bozo the kKklown]

31 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Kerr's argument doesn't take into account anything such as different rules and when the three point line became a part of the game or the different ways guys train now. I guess it's easy to pretend that the Lakers or Celtics or Bulls weren't great passing team in a time when players could get mugged without more than a foul. Like I said, it's humorous watching people makes claims in order to justify GS being the greatest or LeBron being the greatest. 

 

"Hey GS was so much better at shooting 3's than teams in the 70's so they would be the greatest of that decade!!"

All you can look at is how basketball was played when those teams were played. How they looked and how much greater they were than the competition.

 

I also always find these conversations funny because people lament about the rule changes favoring today players while ignoring the rule changes that favored the players from past eras versus older great teams.

 

Lastly, I have to keep saying this but mugging someone is not defense. And if you want to find a real period of physical play, goto the 60s and 70s. You also couldnt palm the ball back then like you could do in the 80s to today.

 

This is the NBA's fault too because they made the history of the sport start in 1979 when Bird and Magic entered the league. They also did a terrible job of documenting the sport. If NBA films was like NFL films, we would appreciate the past more.

 

 

PS: Kareem is the GOAT.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

All you can look at is how basketball was played when those teams were played. How they looked and how much greater they were than the competition.

 

I also always find these conversations funny because people lament about the rule changes favoring today players while ignoring the rule changes that favored the players from past eras versus older great teams.

 

Lastly, I have to keep saying this but mugging someone is not defense. And if you want to find a real period of physical play, goto the 60s and 70s. You also couldnt palm the ball back then like you could do in the 80s to today.

 

Hand checking and physical play used to be permitted so it did used to be a part of playing defense. I don't really understand your point within the first two sentences. If you look at the teams of the 80's, you can see the passing and shooting ability but it's useless without the context of when the three point line came to be or what players were allowed to get away with back in the day. Do you really think that there wouldn't have been more prolific three point shooters in the 80s if the players grew up with three point lines and coaches emphasized it? You don't think Curry and Durant benefit from a lack of hand checking that those team wouldn't have also benefited from?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

The East was WAY tougher back then though. Jordan had to get through the Bad Boy Pistons, Ewing's Knicks, Miller's Pacers etc. Who has Lebron's biggest foe been in the East? An old and worn out Celtics? The charmin soft Pacers?

 

Ewing's' Knicks are probably the second worst good team ever. They just happened to be decent and play in New York. If a Knicks' team wins 48 games, sports writers start waxing poetic about Earl Monroe.

 

Millers' Pacers hold that title. He just happened to have an insane stretch of basketball against....the Knicks. Which means that it became a legendary story.

 

The Mid 80s Bucks were better than both of those teams. Hell, the current Bucks are better than both those teams.

 

The Bucks have a remarkable history of having really talented, really fun teams with no chance of winning anything.

[justice98]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

its 2017, you don't.

 

You still do cuz the players are complaining now about the scheduling.  Imagine if they had a balanced schedule necessitating extra East coast and West coast swings.  The players would have a meltdown.  

 

The league acts like eliminating back to backs is a huge deal as it is.  Trying to fix the logistics of throwing out geographical alignments would be mayhem in the league office.

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Hand checking and physical play used to be permitted so it did used to be a part of playing defense. I don't really understand your point within the first two sentences. If you look at the teams of the 80's, you can see the passing and shooting ability but it's useless without the context of when the three point line came to be or what players were allowed to get away with back in the day. Do you really think that there wouldn't have been more prolific three point shooters in the 80s if the players grew up with three point lines and coaches emphasized it? You don't think Curry and Durant benefit from a lack of hand checking that those team wouldn't have also benefited from?

hand checking isnt defense.

 

On top of that, the great players loved hand checking. Players like Jordan, Kobe, Bird, etc would use the force of that hand check to control the defender's positioning. Allen Iverson had no problems with hand checking. Shoot, Mark Price was a smaller and less athletic version of Steph Curry and he made four All NBA teams before his knee gave out. Kevin Johnson was dominant as well. This is all in the physical play, hand check era. Nate Archibald. Even Lafayette Lever.

 

Now what if those guys had to play in this era where zone defending is allowed as long as you don't stand in the paint? Iverson has gone on record saying it was created to stop him, and it was. You can now double team someone even when they don't have the ball. Steph Curry is the biggest victim of this in the NBA. He has to move and eave through the court because teams put at least two defenders on him, and sometimes three. No player gets that much attention in the NBA today, let alone in the history of the game. (this is why I keep saying Curry is more important player on that Warriors team. He literally tilts the court)

 

And you see the other point you just made? I don't know if players would have taken to the 3 point line. I have no idea. What I do know is what happened. You can only judge based on what happened, and not create hypotheticals that only serve to confirm your biases. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Hand checking is, in fact, defense.

 

#slowwhiteguy

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, justice98 said:

 

You still do cuz the players are complaining now about the scheduling.  Imagine if they had a balanced schedule necessitating extra East coast and West coast swings.  The players would have a meltdown.  

 

The league acts like eliminating back to backs is a huge deal as it is.  Trying to fix the logistics of throwing out geographical alignments would be mayhem in the league office.

you don't

 

Players arent complaining about scheduling because of the trips. They complain due to trying to fill in as many games in a few days.

 

Players are on chartered flights going across the country on planes made to fit guys that are their height. Travel is not an issue in 2017.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

All you can look at is how basketball was played when those teams were played. How they looked and how much greater they were than the competition.

 

I also always find these conversations funny because people lament about the rule changes favoring today players while ignoring the rule changes that favored the players from past eras versus older great teams.

 

Lastly, I have to keep saying this but mugging someone is not defense. And if you want to find a real period of physical play, goto the 60s and 70s. You also couldnt palm the ball back then like you could do in the 80s to today.

 

This is the NBA's fault too because they made the history of the sport start in 1979 when Bird and Magic entered the league. They also did a terrible job of documenting the sport. If NBA films was like NFL films, we would appreciate the past more.

 

 

PS: Kareem is the GOAT.

 

70s basketball is fascinating. Those guys didn't even attempt anything except the loosest definition of defense except in the last two minutes and in the playoffs.

 

At the same time, if you annoyed someone, he had the right to punch you in the face.

 

https://www.si.com/vault/1977/10/31/626402/nobody-but-nobody-is-going-to-hurt-my-teammates

 

Can you imagine a SI article today celebrating fights in the NBA? This article celebtrated Kermit Washington's fighting ability six weeks before he nearly murdered Rudy T.

The other members of this oft-misunderstood elite:

•Kermit Washington, the 6'8", 230-pound Laker strong man, is a nice quiet person who lifts weights and sometimes separates people's heads from their shoulders. In one memorable game last November in Buffalo, Washington ended an elbow skirmish with John Shumate by dropping the 6'9" forward with a flurry of hooks and haymakers. "Shumate came apart in sections," an eyewitness said.

•Calvin Murphy, 5'9", 165 pounds, of Houston, is the littlest man in the NBA. equally adept at twirling batons and demolishing men a foot or more taller than himself. Last November he got angry at Boston's 6'9" Sidney Wicks, leaped to grab a piece of Wicks' Afro with his left hand, and with his right howitzered Sidney's face into a bloody pulp.

•Dennis Awtrey, 6'10", 240, of Phoenix, qualifies either for the Enforcers Hall of Fame or a padded cell. He has thrown punches into the faces of Dave Cowens, Bob Lanier and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Awtrey has the off-court demeanor of a puppy, and his blue eyes twinkle innocently when he says. "Why would I hit a guy for no reason?"

•Bob Lanier, 6'11", 250, of the Detroit Pistons, has had to do little in seven years to establish his reputation; his size is enough. In his second year he kayoed Atlanta 7-footer Bob Christian with one punch. "Most guys in the league have at least a little sense," Lanier says.

•Darryl Dawkins, the Philadelphia 76ers' 6'11" 250-pounder, is the baby of the group. He is only 20, and not even he can predict what sort of havoc he will wreak in the next 10 years. But his potential was made manifest in one fearsome frozen moment in Game Two of last year's championship series. Fighting for a rebound, Dawkins flipped Portland's 6'6" Bob Gross over his back like a child, dribbled Gross' arm and head on the floor, then took a wild swing at Gross that nailed 76er Doug Collins. On came Lucas, who delivered a forearm to the back of Dawkins' neck. The two squared off while 40 million television viewers held their breath. But Dawkins never threw another punch, much to the relief of Lucas, who therefore did not have to hit him back. "I wouldn't have wanted to mess up my hand," Lucas said. Dawkins, banished to the dressing room, turned over two floor-to-ceiling lockers, then smashed a huge wall fan and caved in a toilet stall.

[AJ*]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The Pistons were the only great team in that bunch, and they were old and worn down from their 80s wars when the Bulls beat them.

 

Lebron had to get by the Celtics, who were better than those teams minus the Pistons.

 

Like Kerr said, only in basketball do athletes some and hte way the sport is played declines goes backwards lol.

 

That's a flat out myth lol. The Pistons core players were still young. Isiah, 29. Joe Dumars, 27. Rodman, 29. Aguirre, 31. John Salley, 26. The only core guys that were getting up there in age was Laimbeer who was 33, and 6th man Vinnie Johnson who was 34. 

 

In contrast how old were the Celtics core players in '12 when the Heat got by them? Kevin Garnett, 35. Paul Pierce, 34. Ray Allen, 36. Jermaine O'neal, 33. The only young ones out of their core were Rondo who was 25, Brandon Bass, 26 and Michael Pietrus, 29. Lebron basically beat an old, way past their prime Celtics team that were on their last legs. The rest of his competition in the East were one man shows like Rose's Bulls or Paul George's Pacers. 

. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

By the way, I think my dream NBA would be the style of play we just saw in the Finals at the level of play we just saw in the Finals.

 

With the ability to just punch dudes sometime. JR Smith should have the right to clothesline Steph Curry once a game.

 

Can you imagine how much fun that would be? If the Warriors went on one of their runs, and it was ended by someone sucker punching Klay Thomspon?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, AJ* said:

 

That's a flat out myth lol. The Pistons core players were still young. Isiah, 29. Joe Dumars, 27. Rodman, 29. Aguirre, 31. John Salley, 26. The only core guys that were getting up there in age was Laimbeer who was 33, and 6th man Vinnie Johnson who was 34. 

 

In contrast how old were the Celtics core players in '12 when the Heat got by them? Kevin Garnett, 35. Paul Pierce, 34. Ray Allen, 36. Jermaine O'neal, 33. The only young ones out of their core were Rondo who was 25, Brandon Bass, 26 and Michael Pietrus, 29. Lebron basically beat an old, way past their prime Celtics team that were on their last legs. The rest of his competition in the East were one man shows like Rose's Bulls or Paul George's Pacers. 

. 

 

Here the facts.

 

Players and teams in the NBA today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in the NFL today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in MLB today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in the NHL today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Olympians today are better today than Olympians have ever been at any point in history.

 

We can talk about these team and that team from whatever era. I had a poster of Larry Bird sitting in a nest on my wall. Hell, I had the George Gervin Ice Man poster on my wall. I had a pop-o-matic basketball game that was endorsed by the freaking ABA, man. I respect the past.

 

But Larry Bird never had to deal with a 7 footer who was faster than him, stronger than him, and taller than him that also shot the ball from distance better than he did. Kevin Durant and Lebron James are not basketball players so much as they are evolutionary leaps forward.

 

That's really all that Kerr is saying.

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

5 minutes ago, AJ* said:

That's a flat out myth lol. The Pistons core players were still young. Isiah, 29. Joe Dumars, 27. Rodman, 29. Aguirre, 31. John Salley, 26. The only core guys that were getting up there in age was Laimbeer who was 33, and 6th man Vinnie Johnson who was 34. 

The Pistons lost to the Knicks the next year in the playoffs and did not make a postseason again until 1996 when all of those players were gone, minus Dumars.

 

That season, Isaiah Thomas only played 48 games and all of his numbers had declined.

 

So did Mark Aquirre's. 

 

The only players who were still at their peak levels were Rodman and Dumars. You can call it a myth, but the numbers and history tells you that you are not close to right. The Pistons in 1990-91 were a shell of themselves. I think they only won 50 games that season too.

[Bozo the kKklown]

10 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

With the ability to just punch dudes sometime. JR Smith should have the right to clothesline Steph Curry once a game.

He did punch Curry in the abdomen/groin in game 4.

 

 

[justice98]

15 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

you don't

 

Players arent complaining about scheduling because of the trips. They complain due to trying to fill in as many games in a few days.

 

Players are on chartered flights going across the country on planes made to fit guys that are their height. Travel is not an issue in 2017.

 

You'd still have the problem of fitting in games in a few days in this scenario, that wouldn't go away.  Except now, you'd have to fly out East or West and do it 3-4 times.  Or go cross country and stay 3 weeks.

 

A plane ride is a plane ride, chartered or not.  They don't like to do it either way if they don't have to.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't think any team in history feel apart harder and faster than those Pistons squads without everyone just leaving at once as happened to the Bulls. It feels like the 80s Celtics tumbled pretty hard, but they remained a 50 win team for the entirety of Bird's career and won 48 games that final season with McHale. They probably would have continued at around that level had Reggie Lewis not died.

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, justice98 said:

 

You'd still have the problem of fitting in games in a few days in this scenario, that wouldn't go away.  Except now, you'd have to fly out East or West and do it 3-4 times.  Or go cross country and stay 3 weeks.

 

A plane ride is a plane ride, chartered or not.  They don't like to do it either way if they don't have to.

You have teams go on road trips to the opposite coast.

 

Instead of 4 in 7 nights, you play 4 in 9 or 10.

 

I think the season should be extended by 2 weeks anyway. There is no reason to try and compact the season when most of these teams own their arenas.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

He did punch Curry in the abdomen/groin in game 4.

 

 

 

 

Yea, that's the BS they've been reduced to.

Calvin Murphy would have done a Roman Reigns' Superman Punch there.

 

PS

 

Calvin Murphy is still on the radio in Houston for some reason.

 

You have not lived until you have had basketball explained to you by a 70 year old man with 14 children by 9 women who had 5 of those children accuse him of sexual abuse.

[AJ*]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Here the facts.

 

Players and teams in the NBA today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in the NFL today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in MLB today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Players and teams in the NHL today are better today than teams have ever been at any point in its history.

Olympians today are better today than Olympians have ever been at any point in history.

 

We can talk about these team and that team from whatever era. I had a poster of Larry Bird sitting in a nest on my wall. Hell, I had the George Gervin Ice Man poster on my wall. I had a pop-o-matic basketball game that was endorsed by the freaking ABA, man. I respect the past.

 

But Larry Bird never had to deal with a 7 footer who was faster than him, stronger than him, and taller than him that also shot the ball from distance better than he did. Kevin Durant and Lebron James are not basketball players so much as they are evolutionary leaps forward.

 

That's really all that Kerr is saying.

 

 

 

Players are stronger and faster? Sure. Better? Ummmm no lol. This is the three point chucker ball era and it looks pretty because they've handcuffed defenders in the last decade. This era has diminished skills as well as diminished physicality. It's chuck a three or go all the way to the rim because players today don't have to worry getting hammered. The midrange game is just about dead. Low post skills and footwork are a sick joke. The so-called "best player in the world" has no post skills, a sub-par midrange game, and can't play off-ball. He stiff-arms defenders who can't touch him and bullrushes to the rim for layups but is scared to death to get fouled in the final minutes because he can't make free throws. He has pretty stats in an uptempo game where no defense is being played though so that's supposed to make him the best player lol. I pray more players start emulating Kawhi Leonard's game. That guy is proficient in the low post, midrange, and beyond the arc and (gasp) actually plays defense. He's a throwback old school players who were actually skilled and it's no wonder that Popovich had him study Jordan, Pippen, Barkley and Bowen. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If I was the players' union, I would only accept the end of the conferences if they schedule was reduced to 72 games - which is something that probably should happen anyway.

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 minutes ago, AJ* said:

Players are stronger and faster? Sure. Better? Ummmm no lol. This is the three point chucker ball era and it looks pretty because they've handcuffed defenders in the last decade.

You do realize teams dindt play defense in the past.

 

Now their are actual defensive concepts.

 

Also, even Iverson has said Curry and Kyrie have better handles than him. Players shoot better now. You have a guy who is 7'2" in Porzingis who is able to handle the ball from the 3 point line.

 

10 years ago, you were able to carry a non offensive threat in your starting line up. Now teams exploit that player and they are unplayable. 

 

The game is so much better today than it was 10, 15, 20, even 25 years ago when the Knicks and Cavs thought great defense was holding the ball for 24 seconds and gooning.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

You do realize teams dindt play defense in the past.

 

Now their are actual defensive concepts.

 

Also, even Iverson has said Curry and Kyrie have better handles than him. Players shoot better now. You have a guy who is 7'2" in Porzingis who is able to handle the ball from the 3 point line.

 

10 years ago, you were able to carry a non offensive threat in your starting line up. Now teams exploit that player and they are unplayable. 

 

The game is so much better today than it was 10, 15, 20, even 25 years ago when the Knicks and Cavs thought great defense was holding the ball for 24 seconds and gooning.

You keep bringing up the 3 point line as if it's comparable. Do you understand when the 3 point line came to be and why it's irrelevant that some tall guy can handle the ball from far away as if that's the way it in the 70's and 80's. 

 

It's also silly to say teams didn't play defense in the past. They played within the rules of the game at the time. You seem to not want to grasp the differences in the game and thus dismiss players that were cultivated in a different time by claiming them less skilled.