Renegade7 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 NBA knows their place and it ain't top of the food chain...yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: The NBA's worst GM determined his value. Philly would have been better off trading for Porter than Harris. Fits their team better and he's a better, younger player who is already signed for multiple seasons. For all we know they may have called about them. But the Wizards were telling teams they weren't trading Porter until the day before the deadline. Their abrupt change of course happened because the severity of the Wall injury plunged them into a directionless effort to cut salary. They made a god awful trade in reaction to prior god awful decision making. No, the market determined his value, and you got no evidence that they were telling teams they weren't trading him until the day before the deadline. Harris is a better fit for the Sixers because his cap hold at the end of the year is millions of dollars less than Porter's actual cap amount. So, if at the end of this season if Butler decides to walk and they need to sign some free agents or something like KD decides to come to Philly (in which case they'd say goodbye to Butler), with Harris, they can sign that person without having to renounce their rights on all of their other free agents. With Harris, Butler can walk, the Sixers can max somebody else and not be over the cap, and then max Harris, and hold onto their rights to the likes of JJ Reddick and sign them. If they have Porter, then if Butler walks, they can't max somebody else without starting to rescind their Bird right's to other players. Plus, Harris has been more durable than Porter and can put the ball on the floor a little bit. Edited February 8, 2019 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, PeterMP said: No, the market determined his value, and you got no evidence that they were telling teams they weren't trading him until the day before the deadline. LOL, you assume Ernie Grunfeld knows how to assess a market? Hint, that's a terrible assumption. The beat reporters said that teams had been calling about Porter and the Wizards had been telling teams he wasn't available. A week ago Ted Leonsis said the Wizards wouldn't be trading him. What changed was John Wall ruptured his Achilles on Tuesday and by Wednesday afternoon Otto was gone. 24 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Harris is a better fit for the Sixers because his cap hold at the end of the year is millions of dollars less than Porter's actual cap amount. So, if at the end of this season if Butler decides to walk and they need to sign some free agents or something like KD decides to come to Philly (in which case they'd say goodbye to Butler), with Harris, they can sign that person without having to renounce their rights on all of their other free agents. It's a six million dollar difference. A difference that will shrink once Harris signs a new deal. I disagree that chasing the pipe dream of signing Durant instead of Jimmy Butler is worth the difference between Harris and Porter. They are going to extend Butler, Redick, and Harris during the moratorium. If Chicago called Philly right now and said "We'll trade you Otto Porter for Tobias Harris straight up" Philly would say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Tobias Harris better than Otto. Much better in my opinion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 You have to admire Steve’s tenacity on this. Very admirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 8 hours ago, Destino said: Tobias Harris better than Otto. Much better in my opinion. Harris is good but he's flawed and Otto is better than him. This is Harris's best season of his career and its still not as good as either of Otto's previous two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 8 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: You have to admire Steve’s tenacity on this. Very admirable. I'm right about this. I don't think I'm as swayed by Q Rating noise as other people. Peter should know better though. I know that he actually understands the advanced metrics and he knows they demonstrate Otto's quality but for some reason he's ignoring them. He ignored them in our argument about Jimmy Butler too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 10 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: You have to admire Steve’s tenacity on this. Very admirable. "As usual, Steve is right." Being in a room full of people telling you you're wrong doesn't make you wrong, being wrong does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Harris averaged more points, rebounds, assists, and has a better fg %, 3 pt %, and ft %. How is Porter better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm right about this. I don't think I'm as swayed by Q Rating noise as other people. Peter should know better though. I know that he actually understands the advanced metrics and he knows they demonstrate Otto's quality but for some reason he's ignoring them. He ignored them in our argument about Jimmy Butler too. @PeterMP will debate you until all the stars go blank because they ran out of hydrogen. That doesn't mean he's right either. I keep saying this, but you are defending Otto as a player and others are thrashing him as a cap hit. Those two things are irreconcilable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: Harris averaged more points, rebounds, assists, and has a better fg %, 3 pt %, and ft %. How is Porter better? Porter has been hurt this year, and jerked around in the line up. Both of his previous two seasons were better than this season that Harris is having, and he did them at 23 and 24. Harris is an efficient volume scorer and high quality role player, but the volume scoring is the only thing he does well. Porter is a lesser volume scorer but an even better shooter, better off ball player, better garbage man, doesn't turn it over, and defends significantly better. It's telling that he's been able to accrue more VORP in his career than Harris has despite playing 5,000 fewer minutes. The other thing about Porter is that he fits seamlessly on every team. He can get anyone another 8-10 wins. Tobias Harris is not a great fit for everyone because he needs way more usage and he can't defend either forward position well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I wish we had clipper fans here to argue with you. I don't watch the clippers or the wizards but when the Warriors played the wizards. Porter didn't make his presence felt. Tobias Harris current season is better than any Porter has ever had imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm right about this. I don't think I'm as swayed by Q Rating noise as other people. Peter should know better though. I know that he actually understands the advanced metrics and he knows they demonstrate Otto's quality but for some reason he's ignoring them. He ignored them in our argument about Jimmy Butler too. I'm not saying that Porter isn't better. I've also said I don't like the Harris trade because I think they gave up too much for him (It really was 3 1st round picks Shamet, theirs, and the Miami. I would have held onto one of the 3). However, it is clear that the Sixers liked Harris better and almost certainly largely because of the difference in cap affects next years and the flexibility that he gives them vs. Porter, and it isn't just millions less, but also the ability to completely walk away from Harris next year too. Having Porter on their roster locks him in and locks their roster in. His contract becomes a huge restriction on their flexibility going into the last year they at least have an option to be a major player in free agency. In terms of trading for him, there is a penalty associated with that (and especially in a season when it appears there might be some very interesting free agents). You completely ignore the salary cap implications in the trade (and again, the Fultz trade is really 90% about salary cap implications. Salary cap implications this summer are a huge part of what is motivating the Sixers here.) I also think the idea that Porter can get any team 8-10 wins is incorrect. Porter functions particularly well on a particular team (a team that can afford to have a guy stand at the 3 point line and shoot 3s). If anything, I'm not sure that Harris doesn't give you more flexibility. Harris has never been asked to be just be a catch and shoot 3's guy, but he certainly seems to have the skills to do it. If you have 2 play makers and just need a shooter, Porter is a very good player, but it certainly looks like Harris is too. If you need a player maker and what have is Porter, you are in trouble. I'm also not sure why you would focus on VORP over the career. Harris has more WS and the WS/48 is pretty close for their careers. I also think it is pretty clear that Porter has peaked. He's never going to be a guy that can attack the basket well or be a secondary play maker. He is what he is and if anything injuries seem to be wearing him down. Between what happened last year in the playoffs (the hip injury whatever) and this year, Porter doesn't look like a guy I'd plan on being able to help me make a deep playoff run. Harris looks like a guy that might have some more improvement left in him. (After last night, maybe the Sixers should have traded for Portis.) Edited February 9, 2019 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Everybody admits that even advanced stats have issues with defense so judging defense is still something that has be to done more by eye. Also in terms of Porter, I think he's done well by the advanced stats by doing what he does really well and not doing much else. That's a way to maximize your value with respect to the advanced stats, but I'm not sure that's actually the best way to maximize your value with respect to your team. If Ben Simmons shot a few corner (or where ever he shoots the best from) open 3's, it might not help his advance stats, but I think it likely would actually help the Sixers as a team. Porter hasn't even shown he's really good at off ball movement (which is almost certainly something the Sixers would want from him and would really increase his value). Now, maybe that's not his fault and it is the coaching/offensive scheme he's played in, but you can't give up a lot for him assuming he's going to be good a it either, especially with his cap hit. Given where the Sixers are, they have to assume he is what he is as over the last 3 years now he's not really improved. Edited February 9, 2019 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 M Bison came soooo close to making a 2019 appearance. Soooo close 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 tasty W tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: tasty W tonight. Ya'll have 5 all-stars, any win you get that isn't by double digits shouldn't be considered tasty. I see that was at home as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Ya'll have 5 all-stars, any win you get that isn't by double digits shouldn't be considered tasty. I see that was at home as well. nope delicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Its always more painful looking when they tomahawk it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 @StillUnknown I would have given Hezonja the dunk of the year crown for what he did to Criss the other night...but man...Knox got that title right now. WHOA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 That was a great block. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Am I the only one that doesn't find Harden's streak impressive? Dude took 34 shots tonight to get 42. He was in a game a couple weeks ago when they were getting crushed to, seemingly, get his 30 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: Am I the only one that doesn't find Harden's streak impressive? Dude took 34 shots tonight to get 42. He was in a game a couple weeks ago when they were getting crushed to, seemingly, get his 30 points. I was watching that game, forgot who it was against. As soon as he got 30, he was out. I'm a little impressed, but just like everyone says, it's not sustainable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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