***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Mr. Sinister]

This has nothing to do with playoffs (I'd be shocked if they don't make that ). It's about what should apparently be deemed as a realistic/unrealistic scenario. I just don't see 9 being all that unrealistic, improbable, biased, whatever. Them needing to prove it is fine... But certainly not fine when in the same breath you claim that the Wizards are a top 10 team, and they've proved....? Meanwhile, LeBron James has made a career out of proving that he can single handedly raise the level of a team by himself.

 

So again, him raising the Lakers to a 5-7 seed? I think that's pretty fair, knowing ESPN. They probably wanted to put them 3rd.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

So again, him raising the Lakers to a 5-7 seed? I think that's pretty fair, knowing ESPN. They probably wanted to put them 3rd.

 

I started with power rankings so let's stick to that if we're going to keep talking about what I said and you disagree with. 9th team in NBA is different conversation then seeding in the west, 5-7 seed is where I see them as well (right now, on the lower end, waiting to see).

 

Not discounting his ability to raise his team, but that was in the East.  Now he has to play GS four times a year, different animal.  Wizards need to prove their place, too, but when I line 'em up, I'd rather take the Wizards roster right now. 

 

It's not like I said Wizards are top 3 in NBA, they still have to prove that roster belongs in top 3 in the east (which I believe it is, Howard move is serioust underrated considering how Wall used to play with Gortat).  Wizards already have two all-stars and now respectable center(not having one was killing us last year), who has LeBron's back?

 

 

[Going Commando]

I think the Wizards are probably 3rd in the East behind Toronto and Boston because I think Indy and Philly are being overrated.

 

But I could easily see the Lakers finishing with a better record than the Wizards.  LeBron hasn't won fewer than 50 games in a long time.  The Wizards haven't topped that plateau in a long time.  His supporting cast in LA isn't any good but his individual greatness powers teams to 20+ more wins than they'd have otherwise.

The Raptors are a little sketchy though.  A lot depends on Kawhi's health.  Their team chemistry might be ****ed up too.  But if not, that team got better and they won 59 games last season.  Could be a 60 win team under the circumstances.

[PeterMP]

The interesting thing with Lebron and the Lakers is it is a different construct then he's used to playing with.  There aren't a lot of great shooters in LA with him, and they aren't a likely NBA championship team.

 

To me there are 2 questions:

 

1.  What kind of offense do they run and how does Lebron do in it?

 

2.  Part of what got the Cavs where they were the last 2 years is the amount he played.  The last 2 years he's lead the league in minutes played per a game.  Does it make sense for him to do it again?  And if they dial it back this year in LA to something more reasonable like 33 minutes per a game does he have the same extent of affect?

 

I could absolutely see getting to the end of the year and saying LA isn't a top 9 team.

[Renegade7]

In the Eastern Conference... Cavs were .500 versus the West last year, 8th seed in the west was 34-18.  LeBron has his work cut out for him, his seeding and record will depend on a much harder schedule.  That's still different then where Lakers ranks in NBA because East is so weak.

[Renegade7]

I jus got a free tank of gas out of someone who claims Lakers will be a 3 seed.  I want them to be good, too, but GD.

[Mr. Sinister]

56 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I started with power rankings so let's stick to that if we're going to keep talking about what I said and you disagree with. 9th team in NBA is different conversation then seeding in the west, 5-7 seed is where I see them as well (right now, on the lower end, waiting to see).

 

Not discounting his ability to raise his team, but that was in the East.  Now he has to play GS four times a year, different animal.  Wizards need to prove their place, too, but when I line 'em up, I'd rather take the Wizards roster right now. 

 

It's not like I said Wizards are top 3 in NBA, they still have to prove that roster belongs in top 3 in the east (which I believe it is, Howard move is serioust underrated considering how Wall used to play with Gortat).  Wizards already have two all-stars and now respectable center(not having one was killing us last year), who has LeBron's back?

 

 

 

Your opinion of the Wizards is absolutely pertinent to the topic (you outright said they and the Blazers would bump LA out of the top 10 altogether), so I'm curious as to why you want to leave it out of the discussion

 

If you agree that the Lakers are a 5-7 seed, then what this really seems to boil down to, is our differing opinion of the East. I think if Kawhi is healthy, then Philly/Boston, and Toronto will likely be the top 3 maybe, with Washinngton/Indiana behind them.Ultimately, I think the 3rd seed will be a distant 3rd from the top 2, barring injuries. So, using that logic, I'll reiterate that the Lakers being a top 9 overall ranked team isn't a stretch.

 

 

[Renegade7]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Your opinion of the Wizards is absolutely pertinent to the topic (you outright said they and the Blazers would bump LA out of the top 10 altogether), so I'm curious as to why you want to leave it out of the discussion

 

If you agree that the Lakers are a 5-7 seed, then what this really seems to boil down to, is our differing opinion of the East. I think if Kawhi is healthy, then Philly/Boston, and Toronto will likely be the top 3 maybe, with Washinngton/Indiana behind them.Ultimately, I think the 3rd seed will be a distant 3rd from the top 2, barring injuries. So, using that logic, I'll reiterate that the Lakers being a top 9 overall ranked team isn't a stretch.

 

 

I'm not leaving anything out the discussion, I'm tired of clarifying that my opinion started with overall ranking and not standings, they aren't the same thing.  If we agree media is going to push envelope on where Lakers rank when and where they can, I don't understand why my original comment is drawing your ire so much.

 

Wizards and Blazers are better then the Lakers, you add that to list Momma posted, that bumps Lakers out the top 10.  I'm not running from anything, I don't agree they are top 10 team overall, full stop.  Even Peter has touched on this possibility, this isn't far-fetched, forget the standings, if you can or cannot list 10 teams better then Lakers right now, there's plenty of points for both sides of it (I'm in the no camp right now, but I rets July). 

 

If your asking me to explain why I think Wizards are better, say that, I've touched on it, but I'm not avoiding it.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Renegade7

[TradeTheBeal!]

Wiz are gonna win 53 games.

 

FIGHT ME.

[PeterMP]

16 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Wiz are gonna win 53 games.

 

FIGHT ME.

 

Howard's going to set weak picks making any pick and roll with him ineffective, not want to leave the paint, clog the paint, hurt floor spacing causing more turnovers and bad shots.  That will offset any gains on defense of him over Gortat, and the Wizards will really be a worse team on the basketball court.

 

He'll also be even more of a locker room cancer than Gortat and further increasing the dysfunction of the locker room.

 

On Dec. 1, the Wizards will be below 0.500 and Beal and/or Wall will be demanding a trade.

 

(I think this is the worse case scenario.  I can also see a scenario where Howard comes out motivated and works in the offense, and the Wizards are the best team in the East.)

[TradeTheBeal!]

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Howard's going to set weak picks making any pick and roll with him ineffective, not want to leave the paint, clog the paint, hurt floor spacing causing more turnovers and bad shots.  That will offset any gains on defense of him over Gortat, and the Wizards will really be a worse team on the basketball court.

 

He'll also be even more of a locker room cancer than Gortat and further increasing the dysfunction of the locker room.

 

On Dec. 1, the Wizards will be below 0.500 and Beal and/or Wall will be demanding a trade.

 

(I think this is the worse case scenario.  I can also see a scenario where Howard comes out motivated and works in the offense, and the Wizards are the best team in the East.)

 

I’m very disappointed in you right now.

[PeterMP]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I’m very disappointed in you right now.

 

In the recent past, the Wizards have always been one of the least interesting NBA teams to me.  They are good, but not good enough.  With the weak East and Howard, I think they are now one of the most interesting teams.

 

I could see them landing anywhere from the Eastern conference champion to out of the playoffs and a team that gets blown up.

 

I'll definitely be watching more Wizards this year.

[PeterMP]

I'll even say, I don't think they are a 44-54 win team this year in the East if they are healthy.  Either they are better than 54 or they are worse than 44.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Howard is awful. 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Howard is awful. 

His maturity level is kindergarten level, but 16/12 is not awful.  I'm with Peter that either this works well for us or blows up in our face and we should know by all star break.  Ill continue to maintain that even a mediocre Howard is significant upgrade for us because of our style of play.  He wouldn't have the same net positive if he went to say GS, so his addition needs context outside jus his level of play (doesn't do the move justice).

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm not leaving anything out the discussion, I'm tired of clarifying that my opinion started with overall ranking and not standings, they aren't the same thing.  If we agree media is going to push envelope on where Lakers rank when and where they can, I don't understand why my original comment is drawing your ire so much.

 

Ire? Your internet psychology needs work. I'm good.  But you're right, this started with power rankings. It's still about power rankings (I think). You made the comment that the Lakers being ranked 9th in some poll was, to sum it up, based on nothing but media hype. I brought up the point that that if you factor in the relative perceived weakness of the East, and the expectation  that James should get the Lakers to the 5-7 seed range, that 9 wasn't as unfathomable as you made it seem.

 

You, of your own volition, brought up up the Wizards and Blazers (Wizards more specifically to my curiosity) and how they would both push the Lakers out of the top 10, which seemed to run counter to your point about "Improbability" (which  by this point you  clarified that that's what you meant, though your post earlier suggested not a chance, again, without the love/will of the media, which made it confusing). So I questioned your logic on this.

 

I then said it would be improbable if they were picked 5th or lower, and that 9 seemed fairly tame. You then went on some spiel about how it doesn't mean that they'll  miss the playoffs, or that they'd be lower than 15 (when that was never an issue that I brought up at all)

 

You then instruct me to stay on topic as if I've somehow deviated from the discussion you started, and comments you made (which I hadn't), saying that the 9th team in the NBA is different than seeding in the West (which was basically the first comment I made), and that they need to prove themselves, play GS 4 times (which is largely irrelevant, considering the half speed nature in which they now tend to approach some of the regular season, the fact that he can beat them if they are playing at that speed, and the fact if he cant, that it's ultimately  4 out of 82)  the Wizards by the same token had proven nothing as well, over a larger sample size. Since I don't view the East as strongly as you do, LeBron doesn't need a Herculean effort to get to a 5, 6, or 7 seed in the West (which in my mind, would qualify them for a 9 overall NBA ranking). But im pretty sure that once roles are defined, and they add whoever they add before the season and at the deadline, they'll improve, and he'll find his go to guys. It never fails. The only thing that will change in the West, will be him being a lock to take any team to an ECF/Finals. Those days (For now) are definitely on hold.

 

And I'm wholly aware of the difference between a ranking and a standing, so thanks for the reminder. If you're tired though, I'd suggest a nap.

 

Quote

Wizards and Blazers are better then the Lakers

 

I want to believe....

 

Quote

you add that to list Momma posted, that bumps Lakers out the top 10.  I'm not running from anything, I don't agree they are top 10 team overall, full stop.  Even Peter has touched on this possibility, this isn't far-fetched, forget the standings, if you can or cannot list 10 teams better then Lakers right now, there's plenty of points for both sides of it (I'm in the no camp right now, but I rets July). 

 

 Perhaps I could list 10 teams better and worse than the Lakers, right now, as we speak. Perhaps I could list 10 teams worse. Perhaps not. Perhaps this is all ultimately meaningless conjecture based in some truth/reality. Ultimately, I never said anything was definitive improbable, just basically not far fetched. But if Peter's words give you confidence, then knock yourself out.

 

For me ultimately, it will come down to what the Eastern conference wants to be. That'll determine whether or not the Lakers end up with a top 9-10 overall ranking.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

10 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

You can not be serious. 

 

Currently the Lakers team would at worst be the 2nd best team in the east. 

 

I think the Lakers would be a playoff team in the east but the second best team?

 

 

 

Nah....

[Renegade7]

@Mr. Sinister my Internet psychology is just fine, but I can't read your mind.  I just had this conversation with someone sitting behind me and took 10 minutes tops.  Show me where I said Lakers are only ranked 9th by ESPN because of media hype alone.  I'm losing track of what you want from me on this and starting not to care.  I offered to explain why I think some of these teams are better and you recommend I take a nap? 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Renegade7

[Warhead36]

Honestly, I feel like Lebron is going to LA just for his family and his own personal post basketball ambitions(movies, production, etc.). I don't think he really cares all that much about winning anymore. He's won 3 titles, and he ended the championship drought in Cleveland. He's just gunna enjoy La La Land now. That's not to say he won't play hard, and he can single handily elevate his team to the playoffs and possibly conf. finals, but he's got his eyes set on other things now.

[Barry.Randolphe]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Honestly, I feel like Lebron is going to LA just for his family and his own personal post basketball ambitions(movies, production, etc.). I don't think he really cares all that much about winning anymore. He's won 3 titles, and he ended the championship drought in Cleveland. He's just gunna enjoy La La Land now. That's not to say he won't play hard, and he can single handily elevate his team to the playoffs and possibly conf. finals, but he's got his eyes set on other things now.

I agree with this - his son is most likely going to enroll at Sierra Canyon School, that will set him up for any college he wants/scouts while Lebron works on his movie career

[Mr. Sinister]

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Mr. Sinister my Internet psychology is just fine, but I can't read your mind.  I just had this conversation with someone sitting behind me and took 10 minutes tops.  Show me where I said Lakers are only ranked 9th by ESPN because of media hype alone.  I'm losing track of what you want from me on this and starting not to care.  I offered to explain why I think some of these teams are better and you recommend I take a nap? 

 

You're not Larry. Stop trying to act like it.

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Howard is awful. 

 

He might be an awful person.  I have a hard time believing anyone who has 8 different baby's mommas isn't an awful person.  But he's an X factor.  Either he destroys our locker room and we end up being terrible.  Or he ends up being a good mercenary and we end up being really good.

 

I agree with Peter in that I don't think there is going to be much middle ground for the Wizards this season.  We've got the defensive talent now to fix our worst weakness and we could make a Toronto-style leap on that end of the court. But so much depends on Dwight not alienating the locker room and John Wall staying healthy.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

You're not Larry. Stop trying to act like it.

 

I don't have patience to act like anyone except myself.  This stopped being fun hours ago, Sin.

30 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Honestly, I feel like Lebron is going to LA just for his family and his own personal post basketball ambitions(movies, production, etc.). I don't think he really cares all that much about winning anymore. He's won 3 titles, and he ended the championship drought in Cleveland. He's just gunna enjoy La La Land now. That's not to say he won't play hard, and he can single handily elevate his team to the playoffs and possibly conf. finals, but he's got his eyes set on other things now.

I've been trying to avoid saying this because I don't want to believe it.  If rings were his primary focus, he wouldn't of gone to the Lakers, imo. I can't tell what this guy wants, Jordan it was obvious.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Kevin Love 4yr/120M extension.

 

Seems high.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This stopped being fun hours ago, Sin 

 

 

You mean after you chose this dumb hill to fight/die on? I kept it pretty simple. You wanna have fun, stop trying to twist yourself into a pretzel. I agree, this was a pretty simple discussion. You shouldve kept it that way.

 

Your entire issue with this stems from your belief that the Lakers are ranked 9th in a poll (based on largely conjecture) because the media needs them to be (you can Larry your way into however you wanted this to sound in the greater context of the ensuing argument, but this was your initial point, unless you want to deny it).

 

 You counter with your assertion that they aren't in the top 10 overall, and that there are teams better than them that push them out (conjecture). These are all things that are impossible to know for sure.

 

I make an assertion  (based on anecdotal evidence) that basically, it's more likely than not, because of the weakness of the Eastern conference, and because of James track record as a competitor, and I explained why. These are things that have had a tendency to happen frequently, but still, are subject to change (For the simple fact that he is in the West now). So I ask you... Why does it matter who you think is better than who? It seems to me that you're now weighing certainty vs probability, at this stage

 

Are any of these teams certainly better than the Lakers? I don't think anyone really knows outside of maybe 4 teams, and since they aren't ranked 4th, or 5th, lime I said, this is largely irrelevant. He instantly transforms whatever team he plays on. How that will take effect this time, we don't know, but we know it has already happened, by his presence alone.

 

Now, is it probable that LeBron will continue to raise the level of his teams play (something he's always done), and is it probable the East will continue to be top heavy? I think it certainly has more of a chance to happen than what you describe, which, in an argument on both sides mostly rooted in conjecture, I'd go with something that has proven to be true more often than not.

 

That is as simple as I can put it on my end.