***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[PeterMP]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Anyway, to your point, I think this Finals series is going to again reveal that there is a major gulf between Cleveland and Golden State.  A gulf that the 8th pick will not fill.  I do not thing that LeBron is young enough to wait out Golden State in Cleveland.  I think his window for competing for championships in Cleveland is over unless Steph Curry and/or Kevin Durant break their legs this week.

 

It's a testament to how god awful an organization the Cleveland Cavaliers are that they've only got one ring to show for having the second best player in the history of the sport.

 

I guess I don't see where he's got a clear path to really challenge GS anywhere next year.  Going to the west to the Lakers with another super start isn't a sure thing.  The issues with pairing him and Simmons have been discussed.

 

The East is still going to still be pretty weak next year I suspect and the 8th pick might turn into a useful player.  I'd be tempted to stay in Cleveland for another, see what the 8th player turns into, and hope for an injury or upset of GS.

Edited May 29, 2018 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

It's funny how LeBron singlehandedly shifts the power dynamic of the NBA and every team would want him, but there don't seem to be too many teams where he'd be a great fit.  

 

Damn shame, really.

[Mr. Sinister]

Odds on CP3 retiring tomorrow to a secluded ranch in British Columbia.... ?

[Going Commando]

- Indy could potentially have two max contract cap space if they cut most of their guys and Young opts out.  But um... Paul George is not going to sign there.  And neither is LeBron.  That's not happening.

 

- Atlanta has nothing except for this high draft pick.  Nobody is going to sign there.  They're going to rebuild through the draft.

 

- Nobody is going to sign with the Kings either.  They're building through the draft too.  Side note: curious to see if they somehow manage to **** up this incredible opportunity to finally change their fortunes and get out of the cellar.

 

- I don't think Philly is going to draw a big fish this summer.  I think they're going to make smaller moves and let their young core organically grow.

 

- Dallas just doesn't have a very appealing extant roster and they don't have two max contract room and can't get there.  They shot their wad on questionable contracts to Wesley Mathews and Harrison Barnes.  This is an organization that is going to have to rebuild through the draft, but they have a little too much talent to do it without shamelessly tanking.

 

- Chicago has a couple of pieces, but they're spending too much on Lopez and Asik to easily get to two max contract room without letting Lavine walk.  It's not a particularly appealing roster.  If I were LeBron, I'd much, much rather sign with Indy because of Oladipo and Turner.

 

Guys, it's going to be the Lakers.  Ain't that some ****.  Look at that roster.  Ingram's a shooter.  Lonzo is a defender and secondary/tertiary playmaker.  Randle is a Tristan Thompson who can actually play some offense.  Zubac is a dirt cheap, rotation-worthy center.  Kuzma is a shooter.  Hart is a legit three and D player.  Better than anyone Cleveland had this year.

 

They're going to keep Julius Randle and sign LeBron and Paul George.  And that team will have the young legs and the wings and bodies to throw at Golden State and match up with them.  This is the feasible scenario that makes the most sense.  Chris Paul is going to stay in Houston and it's going to be a three way battle in the West for the trophy next season and the East is going to be wide open.

[PeterMP]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

It's funny how LeBron singlehandedly shifts the power dynamic of the NBA and every team would want him, but there don't seem to be too many teams where he'd be a great fit.  

 

 

He's a great fit lots of places.  Just most of those places can't also afford a max contract or don't obviously become better than GS with him.

 

And nobody is even saying he's a bad fit in LA.  He's not not a good fit in one of the few places that has room for a max contract.

Edited May 29, 2018 by PeterMP

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

He's a great fit lots of places.  Just most of those places can't also afford a max contract.

 

And nobody is even saying he's a bad fit in LA.  He's not not a good fit in one of the few places that has room for a max contract.

 

Where do you think he'd be a great fit that could afford him?

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

The East is still going to still be pretty weak next year I suspect and the 8th pick might turn into a useful player.  I'd be tempted to stay in Cleveland for another, see what the 8th player turns into, and hope for an injury or upset of GS.

You're one of the few people I've heard talk about him staying.  In my head, they have to hope that 8th pick is as good as Kyrie, and even then they almost got swept last year.  Does Cleveland have cap space to add other pieces?

 

In a logical sense, ya, but we're talking about Cleveland's front office, I wouldn't trust them to figure this out.  This so reminds me of the Colts with Manning, they shoulda been had more then one Super Bowl win, but we're so terrible about surrounding him with the talent he needed, the second he went down they were irrelevant (only saved by drafting Luck, who now can't stay healthy).

 

A lot of smart people in here, hoping these other franchise do smart things.  

[Mr. Sinister]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

It's funny how LeBron singlehandedly shifts the power dynamic of the NBA and every team would want him, but there don't seem to be too many teams where he'd be a great fit.  

 

 

His skill set and basketball iq would make him a fit everywhere. His ego and other external circumstances would make him a fit almost nowhere (this time around).

 

Strangely I keep feeling like Utah is his destination. That would be some Jimmy stop the presses **** right there 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Odds on CP3 retiring tomorrow to a secluded ranch in British Columbia.... ?

That. Would. Suck.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

His skill set and basketball iq would make him a fit everywhere. His ego and other external circumstances would make him a fit almost nowhere (this time around).

Literally the only thing left before I call him the GOAT.

[PeterMP]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Where do you think he'd be a great fit that could afford him?

 

Did you read my post?

 

"He's a great fit lots of places.  Just most of those places can't also afford a max contract."

 

There are really two teams set up to offer a max contract next year (currently).  Philly and LA.  He's a fine fit in LA.  He's a bad fit in Philly, and that's only if Philly isn't willing to trade Simmons.

 

There is a long list of teams where he'd be a great addition.  However, it doesn't make sense for him to go there because even with him they aren't likely better than GS or they don't have room to offer a max deal.

 

If he opts in and it is a sign and trade, he'd be a great fit with the Rockets.  He'd be a great fit in DC.  DC becomes a title contender next year if they trade Wall for Lebron.

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I guess I don't see where he's got a clear path to really challenge GS anywhere next year.  Going to the west to the Lakers with another super start isn't a sure thing.  The issues with pairing him and Simmons have been discussed.

 

The East is still going to still be pretty weak next year I suspect and the 8th pick might turn into a useful player.  I'd be tempted to stay in Cleveland for another, see what the 8th player turns into, and hope for an injury or upset of GS.

 

And thus you see the dilemma for the NBA that Kevin Durant created when he picked Golden State.  There has been no realistic combination of players and teams that could beat them the past two years, and there probably won't be one next year either.  Golden State is a team with two of the three best players in the game plus a full complement of high end role players and there is simply no other possible scenario out there that replicates that.

 

This is what I've been complaining about since the summer of 2016.

 

I agree with you that the East is going to be weak again next season.  Staying in Cleveland just to put off making a major career decision for one more year, taking the open road to the Finals, and hoping for a significant Golden State injury is a viable option.  It's not good, but it's better than most of the others available.  But I think LeBron is going to get pro-active and for a partnership with Paul George or Kawhi Leonard or (less likely) Chris Paul.

 

The Wizards are an X factor in the East.  They massively underachieved this season.  DeMarcus Cousins is kind of a forgotten man this summer because of his injury.  There is a decent chance that he forces his way to DC, gets healthy midseason, and the Wizards become a factor in a post-LeBron Eastern Conference.  They wouldn't be able to beat Golden State, but they could beat Boston or Philly.  John Wall would be battling Giannis and Embiid for best player in the East status if LeBron went to San Antonio or LA.

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Where do you think he'd be a great fit that could afford him?

 

There are only like six teams with potential max contract space this summer.  LA and Philly are the only ones that aren't completely awful and incapable of competing with Golden State even with the addition of LeBron.

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Strangely I keep feeling like Utah is his destination. That would be some Jimmy stop the presses **** right there 

 

They don't quite have enough cap space.  Making a run at him would mean relinquishing the cap hold on Derrick Favors, and they'd be such a dark horse in a LeBron free agency courtship that I just can't see them doing that.

[PeterMP]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You're one of the few people I've heard talk about him staying.  In my head, they have to hope that 8th pick is as good as Kyrie, and even then they almost got swept last year.  Does Cleveland have cap space to add other pieces?

 

In a logical sense, ya, but we're talking about Cleveland's front office, I wouldn't trust them to figure this out.  This so reminds me of the Colts with Manning, they shoulda been had more then one Super Bowl win, but we're so terrible about surrounding him with the talent he needed, the second he went down they were irrelevant (only saved by drafting Luck, who now can't stay healthy).

 

A lot of smart people in here, hoping these other franchise do smart things.  

 

Iggy has clearly taken a step back this year and will probably take another step back next year.  Green also looks like he's slowing down.

 

And you hope you get lucky and somebody upsets them or they have another significant injury.

 

Again, I don't see a really good option for him.  He'd get the most money for staying in Cleveland, he's got family and his kids have a life in Cleveland, and the fans love him.  In the context of the big picture, where there isn't a place he can clearly go to beat GS, I'm not sure it isn't just  going to make the most sense for him to stay there.

Edited May 29, 2018 by PeterMP

[Mr. Sinister]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That. Would. Suck.

Literally the only thing left before I call him the GOAT.

 

I think it's 50/50 good, bad. Contrary to what many may think on my strange 1080 on him in my years posting in this thread, I truly hate him, but I am not a hater. Stark contrast.

 

He absolutely should have an ego. But if he wants to keep chasing rings, he's gonna have to sacrifice, somewhere, whether money or playstyle. Can't have it all. As much as he is still sonning dudes, physically he is not who I saw in Miami, so he is clearly human, and with what he's been putting himself through the last 2-3 years, he's gotta be nearing an event horizon, where things will have to change, quick.

[Hersh]

Why wouldn't Boston go after Lebron? They can work out a sign and trade, which would be hilarious if they sent Kyrie back to Cleveland (along with Hayward), for Lebron signed to a max deal. Young team around him with a really good/great coach. 

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

He'd be a great fit in DC.  DC becomes a title contender next year if they trade Wall for Lebron.

 

It wouldn't happen.  John is the draw, LeBron wouldn't force Cleveland to trade him to DC if doing so shipped John out.  I have a hard time seeing Cleveland agree to a much lesser return like a Beal or Porter package.

 

And frankly, the Wizards would not trade John for one year of LeBron.  And LeBron would not commit to a LTD for us, especially sans-Wall.

 

LeBron in DC makes a lot of Xs and Os sense.  But the Wizards' cap situation just doesn't really work for it this summer.  We screwed ourselves with bad contracts and our timing with our good players getting their second contracts sucked.  It hamstrung us.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Again, I don't see a really good option for him.  He'd get the most money for staying in Cleveland, he's got family and his kids have a life in Cleveland, and the fans love him.  In the context of the big picture, where there isn't a place he can clearly go to beat GS, I'm not sure it isn't just  going to make the most sense for him to stay there.

 

LeBron has to choose how important Rings are to him, and only his actions will make that clear.  If he stays and accepts not winning anymore rings because he'll be the most popular guy in the state, that will say a lot about him as a person.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Ya'll have been trying to convince me to accept LeBron as a Wizard despite Wall being our primary ball carrier, now ya'll are worried Simmons won't get the ball enough?

 

Simmons is still really young and I experienced so I’d like him to develop naturally. I’ve seen enough of Wall at this point in his career. He’s not going to get it done so Lebron would step in and fill that role and help them. Thats just from my preference not even considering the basketball fit aspect of it

 

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

And thus you see the dilemma for the NBA that Kevin Durant created when he picked Golden State.  There has been no realistic combination of players and teams that could beat them the past two years, and there probably won't be one next year either. 

 

You say this like they weren’t one half away from losing this series on two occasions 

 

——-

im glad McQueen logically came around to the Lakers. It’s always been the Lakers.

 

Im not even sure winning championships is the greatest deciding factor at this point in his career. He has nothing else to prove.  From Everything I’ve read and heard about his mindset this offseason, family happiness is going to play a big part of that decision and his wife and kids love LA.

 

It makes sense from every single perspective except leaving the East which is an easier path to the finals. It’s basketbal royalty, the Mecca almost, Hollywood business perks, family happiness, and he can still build a pretty decent team there with PG. they even have some young talent to trade if they wanted a 3rd star. 

 

Its either Cavs for one more year or Lakers and has been the whole time imo. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

You say this like they weren’t one half away from losing this series on two

 

Games they won by an average margin of 19 points.  In a series where their point differential was +61.

 

Golden State half-assed this series, half-assed this season, lost significant time due to injury from Curry, lost Iggy for most of this series, and still beat the **** out of the second best team in the league.  An otherwise historic team that won 65 games in the regular season.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

  An otherwise historic team that won 65 games in the regular season.

 

That was stuck on stupid most of the series.  Other people have a point that Draymond and Iggy are regressing, but you're right that they weren't really trying either.  Cavs and Warriors caught the Rockets and Celtics on atypical bad shooting nights in game 7, both could be sitting at home right now and it wouldn't of needed much.  

 

Never the less, they are in the Finals. Again.  I have no idea what to make of Warriors, but I'm ultra annoyed at how many games they take off and still win series.  It's like they don't care and know they are still gonna win anyway.  The only thing more disturbing then the fact they are thinking that is the fact they are right until proven otherwise.  Sheesh.

 

LeBron (and PG) to the Lakers sounds like a respectable way to close out a career.  Him with Luke Walton, I really like that idea, could learn a lot from each other.

[Destino]

26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Games they won by an average margin of 19 points.  In a series where their point differential was +61.

 

Golden State half-assed this series, half-assed this season, lost significant time due to injury from Curry, lost Iggy for most of this series, and still beat the **** out of the second best team in the league.  An otherwise historic team that won 65 games in the regular season.

They beat the **** out of the Rockets without their second best player.  They were down in the series prior to that.  This isn't a trivial point that can be brushed aside, the warriors looked mortal in this series.  

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Destino said:

They beat the **** out of the Rockets without their second best player.  They were down in the series prior to that.  This isn't a trivial point that can be brushed aside, the warriors looked mortal in this series.  

 

When the Warriors played their game, even if it was only for a half, they killed Houston.  If we want to speculate at what might have happened due to injuries, we can do it the other way too.  If Iggy doesn't get hurt, then maybe Houston can't squeak out wins in games 4 and 5.

 

I will say this, if Draymond Green truly is regressing, and this wasn't just a terrible series for him, then the Warriors will go from unbeatable to "merely" dominant.  His defense, rebounding, screen-setting, and high key passing have always been critical to their success in playing without a center.  His emotional tone-setting was also a key factor in pushing Golden State to those 60 and 70 win seasons.  Maybe he's burnt out, or maybe he just had a rough series and faced a bunch of bad match ups.

 

But seeing him failing to compete for contested rebounds in his area was troubling.  That was the effort level of a man for whom it hurts to move.  Reminded me of Nene.  Dead serious, maybe he's got some plantar fasciitis?

[PeterMP]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

LeBron has to choose how important Rings are to him, and only his actions will make that clear.  If he stays and accepts not winning anymore rings because he'll be the most popular guy in the state, that will say a lot about him as a person.  

 

But again, unless he's willing to accept less than a max, there is no clear place he can go and challenge GS.  It is possible that Cleveland with 8th pick is actually his best option for winning a title again next year.

 

He'd almost certainly be the favorite to win the East again and putting off facing GS as long as possible as its advantages.

Edited May 29, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

Yeah, there is a chance that Cleveland could get someone good at 8.  Right now, I'm thinking the draft will play out like this:

 

1 - Ayton

2 - Donkic

3 - Bagley

4 - Jackson Jr

5 - Porter

6 - Bamba

7 - Young

8 - Carter/Sexton/Bridges

 

Of those groups, I think I like Carter best for them.

[PeterMP]

In LA, I'd say in terms of winning a championship if Randle could shoot much at all or Ball could really shoot (I'm going to assume Ball's shooting the last 2/3s of the season where he was better and was about a 33% 3 point shooter represents his true 3 point shooting percentage, but he's not a 37+% shooter), then LA is the bast chance to win a championship.  But since that's not the case, I don't think you can say that.

 

LA might be in a situation where their best chance of winning a championship with Lebron actually requires them to move Randle or Ball.

Edited May 29, 2018 by PeterMP