HeluCopter29 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 He needs to be willing to never cut it back inside or try and bounce it outside. I'm ok with him running it because it's good for 4 yards basically everytime, keeps the defense on edge, and has the potential for a big play with the wheels that he has. But he has to be willing to "take what the defense gives" because otherwise it's not at all worth it with the type of punishment he can take from it. He has gotten better at this, but there were hits he took in the Seattle (early part) and Dallas game that were viscous and only got us a couple extra yards because he tried to play like a RB. If he can't do that 100% of the time, then scrap it. Also, he needs to work on his slide technique. It's kinda awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yes... switch to the Denver look and formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonkey Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Read option or not, he was hit by 2 linebackers past the line of scrimmage while he was running. And failed to protect himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADF Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm okay with them scrapping the read option. That would be perfectly fine by me. Robert Griffin can run the same offense that Kirk Cousins ran vs the Browns. Cousins wasn't out there taking five or seven step drops from directly under center and passing. They either ran the ball or passed off of play action. That's exactly what they do with Griffin when he's directly under center and he was good at it. People marveled at how well he sold the play action fakes and some of our biggest plays came off of it. He also seemed to be more adept at drawing defenders off sides while under center. I wish they did more of it this past season. Unfortunately, all that won't solve the issue. If Griffin hadn't run a single read option this season we'd still be in the current situation. They guy simply has to learn to protect himself 100% of the time. He got a lot better at it after the Falcons game but it only takes one slip up and he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Read option or not, he was hit by 2 linebackers past the line of scrimmage while he was running. So since you were so gung ho on removing the read option and playing a "traditional offense", I take it you now believe that we should just tell Griffin he's not allowed to scramble if the offensive line breaks down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#BgMase76# Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Maybe we should also stop lining up in shotgun as a low snap caused him to collapse the knee in the first place. In all seriousness though, and I might be the minority on this, I believe we should still keep the read-option, as it's very effective with a healthy RG3. He just needs to learn to run AWAY from the pursuit rather than INTO the pursuit. No, I don't think you're in the minority. I agree w/ everything you're saying. Kid just has to dial back the competitiveness slightly. (if possible and only in traffic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm okay with them scrapping the read option. That would be perfectly fine by me. Robert Griffin can run the same offense that Kirk Cousins ran vs the Browns. Cousins wasn't out there taking five or seven step drops from directly under center and passing. They either ran the ball or passed off of play action. That's exactly what they do with Griffin when he's directly under center and he was good at it. People marveled at how well he sold the play action fakes and some of our biggest plays came off of it. He also seemed to be more adept at drawing defenders off sides while under center. I wish they did more of it this past season.Unfortunately, all that won't solve the issue. If Griffin hadn't run a single read option this season we'd still be in the current situation. They guy simply has to learn to protect himself 100% of the time. He got a lot better at it after the Falcons game but it only takes one slip up and he's done. See that's why I'd rather keep the read option stuff in there. Nothing is saying he can't run the bootlegs and other such things AND read option. Nothing says you can't bootleg out of Pistol. I don't see any particular reason to limit our playbook to just one or the other for him. Doing so is foolish in my mind. The reason for this is one you hit on....he's still going to run. On those bootleg plays, like we ran with Cousins, if the passing lanes are not open but there's green grass there the kid is going to run...simple as that. The fact he's not doing "read option" isn't going to suddenly make him go "holy crap, I should stand here and pass" as it seems some (not you) are for some reason thinking. If he's standing in the back field running a New England style 5 wide spread he's still going to potentially run because the line may break down, he may get pressure, and he needs to bolt or go down. QB's scramble, especially mobile ones or ones behind bad lines. Those that don't run but simply scramble to keep the play alive possibly get injured, like Ben Rothelisberger. Those that choose to run to make a play possibly get injured, like Mike Vick. Or, in either case, they manage to be like Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, and Andrew Luck have been so far and stay healthy. A lot of it's luck of the draw, because injuries happen in the NFL. Trying to train the instinct to be mobile, both to keep a play alive (Which RG3 does well, see the first giants game) OR to make a play with his legs, is not going to go well because it's changing instinct to a certain point. Which means we're not going to limit his scrambles regardless of whether or not we're running a ton of Boot action or if we're doing read option or if we're doing spread. The one thing I think we should LIMIT, not completely remove, is the notion of called read-option runs where the only two options is hand off to Morris or run himself. But the read option situations where it's Hand off or Pass OR hand off/pass/run are fine in my eyes as he has great decision making. It's also because of that decision making that I don't mind an average of one or two of the "hand off or run" zone read plays per game where he actually runs the ball. The only thing we need to limit is the amount of called runs he does per game. At most he should be averaging 2 or 3 per game in my mind. That means, WORST case scenario, he's setting himself up for 24 more hits a season (that's assuming 3 per game, and him ALWAYS taking a hit). Hardly a catastrophic increase. And an increase I personally feel is offset by the amount of hits in the pocket that are reduced by the hesitation causing nature of the read option in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPhat Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 So since you were so gung ho on removing the read option and playing a "traditional offense", I take it you now believe that we should just tell Griffin he's not allowed to scramble if the offensive line breaks down? id rather he throw the ball away. Whether we like it or not, opponents now have the mindset of knock RG3 out of the game and u beat the Skins. As long as he runs, he'll be fair game. And we're just one bad shot away from where we are now! To borrow a Top Gun line, RG3's skills are writing checks that his body can't cash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDeep81 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Only thing they need to change, is getting RGIII to bail before undue contact is made.. The extra yards just arent necessary.. He needs to play like he did when he had the brace on.. Just get out or down as soon as possible.. It's the "threat" of him running that is needed for the pistol/option/etc to be successful, imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You realize he's "fair game" in the pocket to hit as well, yes? Perhaps he just shouldn't play...then we can e sure he won't get hit. After all, we're one big shot of being without him. Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, chad Pennington, pocket passes who still got severely injured. Trying to tell a guy whose natural instincts are to be mobile and evasive to NOT be that would be more dangerous in my mind....putting him in a position to have to be thinking rather than acting at all times from the point that he drops back. That's a problem to me. I'd MUCH rather work on decision making at the end of runs and changing that over changing his entire mentality and thought process in the pocket itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPhat Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 You realize he's "fair game" in the pocket to hit as well, yes? Perhaps he just shouldn't play...then we can e sure he won't get hit. After all, we're one big shot of being without him. Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, chad Pennington, pocket passes who still got severely injured. Trying to tell a guy whose natural instincts are to be mobile and evasive to NOT be that would be more dangerous in my mind....putting him in a position to have to be thinking rather than acting at all times from the point that he drops back. That's a problem to me. I'd MUCH rather work on decision making at the end of runs and changing that over changing his entire mentality and thought process in the pocket itself There are rules that protect QB's such as the one step rule. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-reiterates-rules-on-defenseless-players.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respectgibbs Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Keep it. If RG3 keeps getting injured, it is what it is and you move on. The plays he was injured on weren't even option plays. If it's going to happen, it'll happen, regardless of the offense. You could maybe minimize the chances, but if that also means minimizing wins, then no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 There are rules that protect QB's such as the one step rule. HELP protect, not completely protect. Your asking that in the cases where he'd scramble to keep the play alive he "throw the ball away". Your asking for a complete rework of his entire pocket mentality and instinct.....that's not going to result in instantaneous reactions to throw the ball away early on because he's going to need to think to do that and to not do what his natural reaction is. Which means that "one step" is likely going to be within range to pop him as he's throwing the ball away. Though I will say, your plan should reduce his total number of hits. If he threw the ball away everything he scrambled this year our offense would've been on the field a heck of a lot less, and thus fewer chances to get hit. So...silver lining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPhat Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I put a link on the rules that help QBs. ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 06:17 AM ---------- If u hit a rock enough, it will break. See BigBen, he was thought to be big enough to take hits, but his body is breaking down. If RG3 stays the course, sure he'll be spectacular, but he'll have too short a career. We've invested our future on this guy, we have to keep him healthy to ensure that future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think we'll adapt it, do some different things, all with his health in mind. I don't think we scrap it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdskn4eva Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 On Read options, he is usually has clear space to run. He got hurt on off scheduled scramble plays. RG3 will be fine. He just needs to learn how to slide more often and throw the ball away. He's been getting out of bounds fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 It's not the read option, it was RGIII cutting back to the inside of the field, trying to get extra yards.Exactly. On both the concussion play and the Ngata hit, he could have avoided the contact. He had every opportunity to go out of bounds or slide on both plays. He also has got to learn how to slide a lot sooner, or fall forward before contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 He needs to throw the ball away more and learn to slide properly. Neither excludes the read option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike21 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Read Option is fine. He gets killed on the Triple Option though, I wouldn't mind seeing that go away for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 He needs to throw the ball away more and learn to slide properly. Neither excludes the read option. This... he really needs to learn how to avoid hits. Seattle Wilson is a good model for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 RG3 is a better athlete than Wilson and much closer to prototypical QB height, but he definitely could learn something from the way Wilson throws the ball. I think Seattle also does a better job of mixing in the read option with more traditional sets than we do, and that can be partially blamed on RG3's learning curve, which I would say is a bit steeper. Nonetheless, I think he'll be a much stronger QB all around very soon. Won't even be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I do not think you need to change the scheme, but you do want to coach Griffin to protect himself. For the record, the initial LCL injury happened on a scramble, not a designed run. The aggravation of the LCL happened without contact on a passing play. The ACL happened in the pocket. Not that this proves the read option is necessarily safe, but the injuries have not come from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_HOG Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Robert just needs to learn when to slide and step out of bounds. The injuries were 100% nothing to do with play calling. The concussion and knee injury were both busted passing plays. We should stick with the read option until other teams make us stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BnG4ever326 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Maybe we should also stop lining up in shotgun as a low snap caused him to collapse the knee in the first place. In all seriousness though, and I might be the minority on this, I believe we should still keep the read-option, as it's very effective with a healthy RG3. He just needs to learn to run AWAY from the pursuit rather than INTO the pursuit. I agree. It's this simple folks. If he's running down the left sideline, TURN LEFT and get out of bounds. If he's running down the right sideline, TURN RIGHT and get out of bounds. If he's running in the middle of the field, SLIDE! We may not get to see any more 76 yd heroic dashes down the field anymore. BUT, I can live with a 10-11-12 yard run for a 1st down to keep drives alive any day. I think that after the surgery and rehab (with NO major setbacks), he'll be fully capable of running that offense again. You can see how lethal it was and will be again with RGIII as the trigger man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Scrap it. Running inside is dumb for any NFL QB and insane for one off two knee surgeries. Learn to slide? His slide is so ugly that he's more likely to re-injure the knee that way than by contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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