WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[Veretax]

Create a government agency whose job it is to strictly monitor all guns. Any gun manufactured needs to have GPS and other technology allowing the gun to be monitored by this agency at all times. If the gun moves from your basement to your bedroom, they know.

1. Isn't that the ATFs job?

2. Why do I have to tell the government I'm hunting?

I'm sorry, but all gun regs will do is make it harder for law abiding civis to get them.

[Going Commando]

doesn't need to be a ton

you don't see gun free areas as a invitation for this madness?

Well by his solution, giving every teacher a gun would be a ton more.

I don't trust that many people with the ready power of life and death. Are we retraining all of our teachers to be police officers as well as educators? Nevermind if it's desirable, is it even possible to do this? Where is the money coming for all of this to come about in a controlled way? What happens when the first inevitable accidental/regrettable death of a student from an overzealous gun wielding teacher comes about?

That's all before you even begin to consider what the new dynamic of having an armed teacher in the classroom might be. We'd be entering a radically militant place as a society. That is simply not the best solution. We need to be radically demilitarizing our society.

[codeorama]

What you're then suggesting is just escalation.....BTW, that doesn't work, turning teachers into soldiers is asinine.

Not saying that we turn teachers into soldiers, just the ones willing and capable. Money is thr ultimate issue. They are not going to pay for more police officers to be in schools. I'd volunteer for the training. They wouldn't have to pay me more. I know a lot of others in my school would do the same.

If we ban Nukes, do you really think Russia or some other country is going to truly get rid of all their nukes? No, the point is deterrence. As it is now. Some ******* can walk into my school or even worse, my son's, and ignore the "no weapons" sign and guess what, if he has 1 gun, no one can stop him until he's out of bullets.

I believe that if people know that there is armed resistance, they will avoid that place because the truth is that they are cowards that prey on the weak.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Not saying that we turn teachers into soldiers, just the ones willing and capable. Money is thr ultimate issue. They are not going to pay for more police officers to be in schools. I'd volunteer for the training. They wouldn't have to pay me more. I know a lot of others in my school would do the same.

If we ban Nukes, do you really think Russia or some other country is going to truly get rid of all their nukes? No, the point is deterrence. As it is now. Some ******* can walk into my school or even worse, my son's, and ignore the "no weapons" sign and guess what, if he has 1 gun, no one can stop him until he's out of bullets.

I believe that if people know that there is armed resistance, they will avoid that place because the truth is that they are cowards that prey on the weak.

BTW, John Wayne was a cartoon.

[codeorama]

BTW, John Wayne was a cartoon.

Come to work with me for a day...

[elkabong82]

There needs to be a greater mandate and emphasis on gun safety and responsibility. Not just to wait the required number of days and get your gun. I know there is some preaching of safety, but safety classes need to be mandatory with each gun purchased, and they need to be effective.

In this case, the guns were owned by the mom. Her son was known to have mental illness and likely the guns were too easily accessible. I know this is just a guess, but the kid doing the shooting likely did so out of anger and/or jealousy, hence killing his mom and then going to her place of work and killing. Just so sad and tragic. But more than just better safety teaching and tighter purchase regulations and background screenings is the treatment of mental illness itself. It seems most of these shootings are conducted by people with a history of mental illness. We need to improve the treatment and handling process with these people, they shouldn't be allowed to own guns until a therapist deems them recovered, and those living with them either shouldn't be allowed to own guns either or should be required by law to keep the guns locked up.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Come to work with me for a day...

I have taught High School. I'd NEVER bring a gun into a school, why wold I want to add to the insanity?

[codeorama]

There needs to be a greater mandate and emphasis on gun safety and responsibility. Not just to wait the required number of days and get your gun. I know there is some preaching of safety, but safety classes need to be mandatory with each gun purchased, and they need to be effective.

In this case, the guns were owned by the mom. Her son was known to have mental illness and likely the guns were too easily accessible. I know this is just a guess, but the kid doing the shooting likely did so out of anger and/or jealousy, hence killing his mom and then going to her place of work and killing. Just so sad and tragic. But more than just better safety teaching and tighter purchase regulations and background screenings is the treatment of mental illness itself. It seems most of these shootings are conducted by people with a history of mental illness. We need to improve the treatment and handling process with these people, they shouldn't be allowed to own guns until a therapist deems them recovered, and those living with them either shouldn't be allowed to own guns either or should be required by law to keep the guns locked up.

Great points.

---------- Post added December-15th-2012 at 03:03 AM ----------

I have taught High School. I'd NEVER bring a gun into a school, why wold I want to add to the insanity?

how long ago?

Times are changing. Each year I'm amazed at the lack of humanity in a core group of the kids. I'm at a great school, but out of 150 students, I have 6 that have no business being in society. I'm working on getting them removed to alternative schools, but its not an easy process.

I understand the responsibility of carrying a gun and again, I'd feel safer.

[Going Commando]

It is not the gun itself but the people themselves. Into how you use a gun in the right and responsible way. As people who use them for foolish and selfish gain, really are in it for themselves without even one cent of concern for others. Sad but true. As now more gun laws will have to be enforced. Not just over the incidents in CT, but in CO, WI, and OR. That is FOUR incidents we have had with guns incidents this year. Forgive me if I am missing others.

Let's take this reasoning to the extreme: weapons of mass destruction are just tools. It's the crazy people abusing them that are the real problem. You can't prevent the crazies from getting them or abusing them, banning them all only takes them out of the hands of the good ones and they need them to defend themselves against likely violence and also to have fun with them and collect them, etc.

In our society, guns are a weapon of mass violence and death. Our society can not handle them. Don't you think that it's a crazy attitude we've always held about guns and violence and the inevitability of mass gun violence? It shares the fundamental reasoning of old school nuclear proliferation and brinksmanship that gave our species the ability to eradicate itself several times over. It's basically saying," **** it, we're all screwed anyway, I just want to have a chance to kill if I'm threatened."

[AsburySkinsFan]

how long ago?

Eight years, I taught some very rough students in public school, just in case you might think I had a bunch of private school trust fund babies.

I understand the responsibility of carrying a gun and again, I'd feel safer.

I do too, I was issued one in the Army, I own two, and I won't bring them into a school or my church.

[codeorama]

It's basically saying," **** it, we're all screwed anyway, I just want to have a chance to kill if I'm threatened."

That's BS. I want to have the chance to survive. If someone breaks into my house, I want to protect my son. If I have a baseball bat and the criminal has a gun, my son and I are probably dead. If I have a gun, I have a chance.

True story, I posted this here a few years back. My brother was at my parents house. Burglars broke in. He was upstairs. He got my dads shotgun, went down stairs chased them out. He could have shot the, but didn't. He could have tried to hold them until the police arrived, but didn't. He just got them out. They had robbed 12 other homes in the previous months and put a woman in the hospital.

---------- Post added December-15th-2012 at 03:16 AM ----------

Eight years, I taught some very rough students in public school, just in case you might think I had a bunch of private school trust fund babies.

I do too, I was issued one in the Army, I own two, and I won't bring them into a school or my church.

We just have to agree to disagree. I don't know how I could feel safer without a gun as opposed to with one. There's no way you can guarantee that no one else is going to have a gun. Until then, I'm safer with one.

[AsburySkinsFan]

There's no way you can guarantee that no one else is going to have a gun. Until then, I'm safer with one.

And there is no way you know this to be true...you just feel safer. There is no way that you can guarrantee the security of your gun, and that it won't be used against you or you students.

*edit

Just reported on CBS News, the weapons were registered to the shooter's mother.

[elkabong82]

1. Isn't that the ATFs job?

2. Why do I have to tell the government I'm hunting?

I'm sorry, but all gun regs will do is make it harder for law abiding civis to get them.

Poor regs have allowed people with mental illness to get guns and commit tragedies. Look at what Holmes, who had such a history, was able to get through simple internet purchases for the Aurora, CO shooting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/james-holmes-weapons-internet_n_1694451.html

None of it raised any flags, nor were flags raised when he went to sporting good stores to purchase guns and started stock-piling them in short amounts of time. Gun purchases should be monitored and purchase requirements should be much more stringent. Guns are deadly weapons and need to be treated as such. That doesn't mean we should ban them, I am for gun ownership, but I realize just how dangerous they can be and how regulations need to correspond with that reality.

[Bacon]

See I'm fine with that. I understand that just as I think guns are important, that to some they are not. I'm not trying to say you are a bad or stupid person for not being a gun owner. You make sense and I'm perfectly fine with that.

So could we both agree that our government needs to protect the children from a violent culture to some point? Then after years and years of that, would it make sense to have a class for each gun owner every so often discussing the dangers of a firearm and how much caution needs to take place when being around one? This would help with the desensitization of death that we have been having lately.

I would honestly feel so wrong to agree with any ban on violent video games but as zooney said earlier, I don't feel like our parents have the experience to be able to handle it. I'm a teacher in a middle school and I can vouch that the kinds of music and games that most children are involved with, HAS to have an affect on them, which COULD lead to something like this later in life. Most of these kids honestly believe in the music they listen to and play video games until 5 am, getting an hour of sleep, then coming to school. You can't tell me that 15 hours of video games watching the same thing over and over with a brain that is not fully mature enough to handle it does not have any toll on their adult mind later in life. Not only that but most kids do not have parents remotely involved in their life to feed them much less much less tell them what's right and wrong. I know some children that get themselves up, make food each and every day (which consists of Mt. Dew and pizza rolls), and don't shower for days.

The games and music are essentially raising most kids nowadays. Games have a mature level for a reason and I honestly think parents do not understand the dangers of letting their kid play THAT much of something they are not intended to experience. Music has a parental advisory for a reason as well. I know for a fact these 2 things have to play a huge roll in most problems we see today.

I am a consumer in this society. I listen to lots of violent music and play lots of violent video games and consider myself reasonably stable. I can handle the sort of testosterone rush they offer. But not everyone can. And no one should be raised on that. I was shielded from it and I think the benefit of maturity allowed me to approach them in an appropriate way. I was raised well, and I thank my parents for that. But if you let these things raise your kids for you, obviously you're going to see a disconnect from their behavior and that of a well-adjusted young adult. I'm not going to blame today's shooting on any of this because I don't know the facts of the case, but I see where you're coming from and where these factors come into play. Perhaps we'll find out the motivation of the shooting, perhaps not. But I do hazard blaming these secondary factors at this early stage. People did with Columbine and it distracted from legitimate issues that could be fixed.

The deepest level of discussion here is the fact of mental instability that exists within our society and, hell, all society. That interests me the most, but I realize it can't be solved today. What can be solved today is the means by which we place weapons in the hands of our resident psychopaths. Elkabong's points were spot on; guns are, at this point, a fact of our country that cannot be removed, so let's treat them with respect. Let's make getting them and retaining them an absolute pain in the ass, like a driver's license, only with a greater emphasis on mental health as well as vision and competence.

[abdcskins]

There needs to be a greater mandate and emphasis on gun safety and responsibility. Not just to wait the required number of days and get your gun. I know there is some preaching of safety, but safety classes need to be mandatory with each gun purchased, and they need to be effective.

In this case, the guns were owned by the mom. Her son was known to have mental illness and likely the guns were too easily accessible. I know this is just a guess, but the kid doing the shooting likely did so out of anger and/or jealousy, hence killing his mom and then going to her place of work and killing. Just so sad and tragic. But more than just better safety teaching and tighter purchase regulations and background screenings is the treatment of mental illness itself. It seems most of these shootings are conducted by people with a history of mental illness. We need to improve the treatment and handling process with these people, they shouldn't be allowed to own guns until a therapist deems them recovered, and those living with them either shouldn't be allowed to own guns either or should be required by law to keep the guns locked up.

True to all of that. Mental illness is indeed the problem. How do you curtail that? Mainly it is up to the people close to the shooter to take initiative and either report them to the police or psychiatric ward. Problem is it is EXTREMELY difficult to convince the police or whoever that someone is a safety concern. And it takes a lot of foresight.

And the part about, "they shouldn't be allowed to own guns until a therapist deems them recovered." No, they should never be allowed to own guns. Not worth the risk. Furthermore, the Colorafo shooting suspect saw a therapist like a month before he commited those acts. Clearly there needs to be more power granted to them to hold people.

Finally, I want to say that people don't need to own guns to be safe. I saw some post earlier woth some guy saying something like, "my wife owns a cute little .38 that she'd love to show a burglar." Like he can't wait for her to pull it. It's that type of thinking that perpetuates guns and violence.

[Stadium-Armory]

My observation is that both 'sides' recognize(in varying degrees) that regulations aren't effective. Where they differ is the reaction to the situation. One group says: "Regulations don't work so we should do away with them to save our children from those we can't control" and the other group says "regulations don't work, screw it you're on your own".

[Bacon]

My observation is that both 'sides' recognize(in varying degrees) that regulations aren't effective. Where they differ is the reaction to the situation. One group says: "Regulations don't work so we should do away with them to save our children from those we can't control" and the other group says "regulations don't work, screw it you're on your own".

FWIW.

[sjinhan]

Here is a question for all gun owners...

If we took away ALL the guns.... Other than losing out on hunting with guns and some entertainment.... What else will you be missing out on?

[FanboyOf91]

Here is a question for all gun owners...

If we took away ALL the guns.... Other than losing out on hunting with guns and some entertainment.... What else will you be missing out on?

My property and my life due to armed home invasions?

[sjinhan]

My property and my life due to armed home invasions?

Ok so I said if we took guns away ALL the guns. So let's say the criminal is not armed with a gun.

Is that all? To protect yourself in case of a break in?

[Popeman38]

Here is a question for all gun owners...

If we took away ALL the guns.... Other than losing out on hunting with guns and some entertainment.... What else will you be missing out on?

You would be taking away my CONSTITUTIONAL right. Every time there is a mass shooting, people lose their **** about banning guns. The very same people who lament the war on drugs. The same people who complain about a nanny state. The same ones who complain about the government stepping on American rights with the war on terror.

[FanboyOf91]

Ok so I said if we took guns away ALL the guns. So let's say the criminal is not armed with a gun.

Is that all? To protect yourself in case of a break in?

So two 6'1' 220 pounds gentlemen break into my house with machetes and confront 5'6' 170 pounds me?

Anyone familiar with hand-to-hand combat know my odds on that one?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Ok so I said if we took guns away ALL the guns.

That's a very big if.

[Going Commando]

I think violent video games definitely have an effect on young children. It absolutely desensitizes them to violence just as any type of realistic violent media does. I think as part of a general demilitarization society and move away from our ultra-violent culture, something could be done to regulate violent media like video games.

But violent video games are not the tools people are using to kill each other in America. And I think people arguing that they are the biggest and most preventable factor in these tragedies are disingenuous. It's basically, "Don't take away my gun, I want to keep that. But I don't give a damn about violent video games, blame them."

The simple fact is that America has the loosest gun restrictions in the developed world and the highest rate of gun homicide. America has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world by far, over 30 percent higher than Yemen, the next highest. 35-50% of the world's civilian owned guns are in America despite us representing only 5% of the world's population. There are guns everywhere here. So long as that's the case, things like this will keep happening.

Japan has as many violent video games as anywhere in the world, if not more. Japan also has the most restrictive gun laws in the world. Their gun homicides have been almost totally eliminated. They are irrefutable proof that if you eliminate guns from society, even one with all sorts of violent media, then no, the criminals and crazies will not get their hands on them and keep using them to kill off the innocents.

Mother Jones did a study of mass killings in the last 30 years and they found 62 incidents where at least four people were killed apart from the perpetrator in one location by a lone shooter. In the vast majority of these cases the guns were legally obtained. Our system is broken.

[Bacon]

You would be taking away my CONSTITUTIONAL right. Every time there is a mass shooting, people lose their **** about banning guns. The very same people who lament the war on drugs. The same people who complain about a nanny state. The same ones who complain about the government stepping on American rights with the war on terror.

http://constitution.org/leglrkba.htm

You don't have a right to bear arms under the second amendment of the US Constitution. You have a right to a well-armed militia. Unless you are protecting the state, you don't have the right to bear arms.

It is generally understood that gun ownership should be a part of a democratic society. I am not in favor of a mass gun ban and wish to retain that privilege. But, please note, as a privilege. Just because you are an American doesn't mean you have the right to gun ownership.