I want Haslet to stay

[darrelgreenie]

Are the Redskins really a historically bad defense or is this statistic indicative of a change in the NFL?

I think part of the problem is people, once again, using the wrong stats. Yards is usually the measure most people quote for defense when it should be points.

[SKINSFAN87]

I disagree, I think that the skins should go a different direction at coordinator. Haslett doesn't get the most out of his players and his defensive schemes in games can seriously be questioned. You don't see alot of emotion on the sideline from him, which I believe follows down to the players. Time to move on

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 09:04 PM ----------

If Crennel is fired we'd be stupid not to go after him.

This I agree with, he would be an excellent choice.

[nfl guru]

His record speaks for itself, he is not very successful at managing NFL defenses so I'd fully hope we consider replacing him with someone like Rex Ryan. If you don't address this issue now, RG3 will continue his ascension and eventually we'll be right back to questioning why we havent changed coordinators.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Are the Redskins really a historically bad defense or is this statistic indicative of a change in the NFL?

A few facts to be taken into consideration:

1 - The Redskins aren't even currently the worst team in the league, it's TB

2 - The Packers and the Patriots both set historical lows in this statistic last year, the other two teams that ranked 29-30, were the Saints and Super Bowl Champion Giants. So four of the eight teams that were left in the playoffs at one point all had "historically bad defenses." In fact two of them even played in the superbowl.

3 - Big play offenses that can attack, often create a game that is going to yield higher passing totals. Whether it is because of more series, or the opponent being forced to keep up. Either way, their defenses stats will look worse than they really are.

4 - The worst four teams in surrending passing yards this year all have top 10 scoring offenses.

5 - 3 of the Redskins 4 worst defensive games (by passing yards) have been wins over Dallas, New Orleans and Minnesota.

Here are the records of the 6 worst passing defenses in NFL history:

2012 Packers: 15-1 (the same packers that have future HOF DC Dom Capers) I assume the logic, he had a historically bad defense so he should be fired applies to Capers as well...

2012 Patriots: 13-3

1996 Falcons: 9-7

2006 49ers: 4-12

1987 Jets: 10-6

1982 Chargers: 10-6

Seems to be a fairly strong correlation between high powered offenses, and defenses surrendering high passing yard totals.

This is ES, and I'm firmly aware I'm not going to change anyone's mind on Haslett, but I felt their needed to be some context given to this statement that plays on repeat. I guess it's better then when members were saying more resources given to the defense than the offense, which is just plain factually incorrect.

Interesting info and stats. I actually think it's kind of strange how high-scoring offenses and low-yielding defenses almost never occur at the same time on the same team. I guess there really is something to the way adjustments are made in how offenses determine the play of opposing offenses, which will of course affect defensive stats.

[Jumbo]

Informative, interesting, and even creative post, Mahons 21.

[RandyHolt]

Good stuff M21

It's a passing league now, and teams that pass score in bunches, and spend much of the game in prevent. Heads almost exploded in the 2nd half against Dallas, but prevent somehow worked. We see it ever year, give up a bunch of yards and points to milk the clock.

No one cares how many points you allow when you win. So those statistically "bad" defenses are largely overlooked because... it just doesn't matter.

While our high powered offense isn't pass first, RG3 and Kyle are changing the league so we can have a "bad" D and survive.

It is refreshing to see Haslet finally change things up, and be more aggressive. Its not always the personnel.

[redskin01fan]

I really do not see how Haslett can take blame this year.. We finished ranked 13th last year from 31 the year prior? Before Orakpo and Carriker were hurt, Meriweather and Jackson were not playing in the safety positions, C. Griffin was still learning the scheme, D-hall moved to nickle back, then Rak and Carriker go down. I think Meriweather and Jackson make a huge difference in that secondary like they did during preseason. This defense will climb back to the top next year even as they add pieces in the offseason. Some games he could have been more agressive but not every coach or player has a great game every week. Don't forget, New York wanted him and we signed him away from the Giants. He is a good d-coordinator and he will be fine.

[rk3025]

Some would send him to the Giants but I hope he stays here.

RG3 did not get sacked all night.

[Rey]

He does seem to confuse Eli and give him problems in the last four games against the Giants. His playcalling is horrible sometimes and I understand the lack of talent he has had this season. If the Skins can finish this playoff run, he would have earned another shot, but please get better safeties

He confuses retard-face. That's an accomplishment lol.

--

On a serious note: you guys should see how this defense does next season with Orakpo and Carriker back. I think they make a huge difference for your D.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 10:12 PM ----------

Here are the records of the 6 worst passing defenses in NFL history:

2012 Packers: 15-1 (the same packers that have future HOF DC Dom Capers) I assume the logic, he had a historically bad defense so he should be fired applies to Capers as well...

2012 Patriots: 13-3

1996 Falcons: 9-7

2006 49ers: 4-12

1987 Jets: 10-6

1982 Chargers: 10-6

I call BS. Where are the 2010 Cowboys?

[Mahons21]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2010.htm

2010 Cowboys didn't even allow 4,000 yards through the air. Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you really called BS without even taking the time to check it out.

The chargers team at the bottom of that list allowed 4311.

[da#1skinsfan]

Even when we were tanking I thought we should keep Haslett and still do.

Carriker, Orakpo, meriweather, Jackson, Robinson, fletcher at 50% the list goes on and on. Injuries have crushed this defense and they are still keeping us in games, and in some cases winning them, with depth. I'm not interested in having another coach come in with a new scheme and then have to play the "we are all learning a new system" waiting game, watching guys play out of position, etc. haslett's done a great job, keep him here. I hope Shanny was 100% truthful about him getting an extension before the year started.

Glad to see so many people change their tunes. Although this is EXTREEEEEEMEskins and if we lose a game or give up a big play, of course the sentiment will shift wayyyyyyy back over to the other extreme - fire him now, burn every memory of him on this team, rah rah rah!!

[KDawg]

Are the Redskins really a historically bad defense or is this statistic indicative of a change in the NFL?

A few facts to be taken into consideration:

I still disagree with you on Haslett... (As if you didn't already know that... )

But this was an excellent post. Thanks for the info

[RandyHolt]

I think its incorrect to say that because of injuries, or the salary cap penalty, drug addictions, etc, that Haslet is "limited" in what he can do. I think its more the opposite.

When he has great players at all positions, he can run a base defense and it will do well because those great players will win their one on one matchups, and not need to be used as band-aids for other problems.

It's when the going gets tough, that the coaches get going. Losing Orak forces him to open up the playbook, and craft a pass rush. Losing Orakpo does limit our 4 man pass rush, so it forces him expand what he does to attain the same results, he has to turn past page 1 of his playbook now.

He is now unlimited in what he is doing, he had to be to save our season. Running a very limited playbook led to our pathetic showing before the bye week. Yet people argued he was limited in what he could do, basically waving the white flag on the season, because of injuries.

Our defense is actually helping to win games now. It was easy to see against the Giants, he is showing a lot of different looks, doing a lot of different things, to try to attain the same results. We see the 5 man pass rush, yet are not gouged any more deep than we were rushing 4. We see cover 1 masked as cover 2. We see Bowen stunting more than ever.

Haslet forced to coach, does better than Haslet running a limited vanilla defense.

[Thinking Skins]

I was calling for Shanny to be fired if he put up a crappy record this season, and I still think his coaching contract should rest on how well we do in these last four games. Along those same lines sould be Haslett. He maybe on thinner ice because Shanny may realize that his defense is part of the main reason why we've lost most of our games, as our offense is no longer the main problem.

[Lavarleap56]

This is sad and pathetic.

I want Haslett gone now.

The PLAYERS have to go the Defensive Coach and tell HIM to adjust his scheme? What the actual ****?

We cannot keep Haslett here. Period. It would be an insult to our players.

Yeah its not going to happen. The next two weeks we will have some good defensive plans while we take gameplans from the Steelers. End of the day Snyder isnt even a Haz fan which kinda says it all.

[SWFLSkins]

Yeah its not going to happen. The next two weeks we will have some good defensive plans while we take gameplans from the Steelers. End of the day Snyder isnt even a Haz fan which kinda says it all.

LL what are the thoughts on next year though? Are the injuries enough of a crutch to give him another year? I was hoping the Skins could find an established Defensive coach on the market after the annual be-headings have begun.

[Wildbunny]

Interesting info and stats. I actually think it's kind of strange how high-scoring offenses and low-yielding defenses almost never occur at the same time on the same team. I guess there really is something to the way adjustments are made in how offenses determine the play of opposing offenses, which will of course affect defensive stats.

Well, in fact that's obvious.

Great defenses that gives up the least yardage result in better field position for their offense, on an average. Thus, the offense usually gets less yards in the end.

High scoring offense, tends to put points on the board quickly and to stack them even faster. Forcing the opponent to force deep throws and be one dimensional, so the defense is in prevent mode and only take care about not giving up TD. Players don't go for ints that aren't sure, you focus on knocking it down if you have a good opportunity for it, but, most surely you just make the tackle and stop that.

To me, yards allowed by a defense doesn't mean much if you don't take into consideration when are those yards given up, how the offense is performing...

Heck, if you look at last years, if you just look at the scores of our schedule, it'll look like our offense was often in games and lost a by a few points. While in fact, lots of those same points where scored while we where down by 2 or 3 scores, and opposing defenses on prevent mode. Just like the Cowboys this year. They were able to get back a few scores, but the game was not as closed as the score suggest it right now f you haven't watched the game.

Points allowed, Nbs of turnovers and the most important to me: the 3rd down % are way much more indicatives of how a defense performs. And while we're at it, we're 23 in points allowed. We've allowed 31 TD, 7 by the run and 24 by the pass. And we're dead last in 3rd down % with 45% allowed.

Our 3rd down conversion is scary and have to be improved.

[pjfootballer]

Haslett should have been gone two years ago. The day after he was signed.

One half doesn't erase everything he's done since he's been here (which is...nothing. He's done nothing since he's been here.) He took a top 10 defense into the gutter and has shown no signs of even remotely lifting it up out of it.

Us making the playoffs doesn't change anything either (a la '99). I hope.

I disagree, I think that the skins should go a different direction at coordinator. Haslett doesn't get the most out of his players and his defensive schemes in games can seriously be questioned. You don't see alot of emotion on the sideline from him, which I believe follows down to the players. Time to move on.

Agree with you both. Along with Danny Smith. I know Smith isn't going anywhere, but I think we need to go in a different direction at defensive coordinator. You can still have the new coordinator run the same scheme (and he'll have to), but maybe a fresher perspective on the calls.

[skins island connection]

As we have seen, if a player such as RAK goes down, there is no back-up who can be near as productive as him; even when he's in there, there were alot of times where Rak was invisible during the season. Some began to question his skillset regarding rushing the QB, and IMO justified.

The issue is, since him and Carriker have gone out, the d-line pressure has been non-existant; most DCs would have come up with a creative way to work around this, but Haslett hasn't for the most part. Even utilizing a modified 3-4-4-3 scheme to get more rush against a QB hasn't happened, except in blitz pkgs.

The offense is over-shadowing the defensive woes, such as the Dallas game. Not much was mentioned about the lack of adjustment or killer instinct in the 2nd half of that game, but if Dallas had come back and actually won, the tone of Haslett's future here would have been far different, just as it was in the Panther game.

I can see the idea of Mike picking him as DC because he wanted the 3-4 and most likely there wasn't anyone else available to hire, but if the defense had been even middle-of-the-road this season, the Skins would most likely be sitting at a 10-2 record.

And I will mention once again, great players don't make great coaches, great coaches make great players...

SIC

[RonArtest15]

I don't. I want Rex Ryan here after he gets canned by the Jets.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Here are the records of the 6 worst passing defenses in NFL history:

2012 Packers: 15-1 (the same packers that have future HOF DC Dom Capers) I assume the logic, he had a historically bad defense so he should be fired applies to Capers as well...

2012 Patriots: 13-3

1996 Falcons: 9-7

2006 49ers: 4-12

1987 Jets: 10-6

1982 Chargers: 10-6

Seems to be a fairly strong correlation between high powered offenses, and defenses surrendering high passing yard totals.

.

The problem is that you're lumping the Redskins in with those teams. We're a highly effective offense, but we're not truly a quick strike offense yet like those teams are. We get huge plays from time to time, but we don't consistently get huge chunk plays through the passing game like the Packers and Patriots. If anything, we're more of an effective ball control offense with a big play element.

This of course ignores the fact that the Packers were #19th in points allowed, and the Patriots were 15th, and the Packers suffered from significant injuries on the defensive end.We are currently 23rd, and the times we've held point totals low are due to an effective ball control offense on our part (as well as playing Nick Foles).

Furthermore,

Also, you have to look at plays the defense has to defend:

Plays Against Per game:

2012 Redskins: 49

2011 Packers: 65

2011 Patriots: 66.5

We're not jumping out to leads big enough that teams are forced to pass against us.

And then, why is it impossible to have a high powered passing offense and a good defense? The Falcons, Broncos, and even Texans manage it (all top 10 passing offense), as well as the Packers, who have returned to closer to what one would expect from a Dom Capers defense.

Ultimately, what is the upside to retaining Haslett as opposed to bringing in another 3-4 coach? Sure in theory, the coach could be worse than Haslett. But they could also be far better. Right now, Haslett's performance is mediocre at best even if you consider the injuries.

[Mahons21]

Like I said, I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I don't want to get in a back and forth over this, but I will entertain this post. And again, I'm not trying to change your mind, you seem firmly in the fire Haslett court and that's your right, I just disagree.

The problem is that you're lumping the Redskins in with those teams. We're a highly effective offense, but we're not truly a quick strike offense yet like those teams are. We get huge plays from time to time, but we don't consistently get huge chunk plays through the passing game like the Packers and Patriots. If anything, we're more of an effective ball control offense with a big play element.

Last I had heard RG3 lead the NFL in TDs of 20+ yards or plays of 20+ yards, either way, there's a fair amount of evidence that contradicts this point of yours.

This of course ignores the fact that the Packers were #19th in points allowed, and the Patriots were 15th, and the Packers suffered from significant injuries on the defensive end.We are currently 23rd, and the times we've held point totals low are due to an effective ball control offense on our part (as well as playing Nick Foles).

The point of the post was put the the line "The Redskins are going to have a historically bad defense" in context. Since that line is based on yards, I based my stats on yards. Nothing was ignored.

I don't know how much weight your point on Nick Foles holds. He's started 3 games, the Eagles point totals in these games have been 6, 22, and 33. Versus the Redskins, Nick Foles has a 0 TDs and 2 INTs, and versus the other teams he's started against 1 TD, 0 INTs.

Furthermore,

Also, you have to look at plays the defense has to defend:

Plays Against Per game:

2012 Redskins: 49

2011 Packers: 65

2011 Patriots: 66.5

Yes that's two of the 8 teams I listed. I'm not going to take the time to look at the stats for the others, but I'd find a larger sample size more relevant. I'm not saying you are, but when you pick two of the eight teams, it seems like you're cherry-picking to prove a point.

We're not jumping out to leads big enough that teams are forced to pass against us.

That's your opinion. How do you explain the fact that 3 of the 4 highest yardage totals (via passing) have come against games where the Redskins have held 2 score lead in the 4th qtr?

And then, why is it impossible to have a high powered passing offense and a good defense? The Falcons, Broncos, and even Texans manage it (all top 10 passing offense), as well as the Packers, who have returned to closer to what one would expect from a Dom Capers defense.

It's not. I didn't suggest that it was. I suggested that the offenses made the defenses look worse than they really were statistically. That could very well be the case for the teams you've listed above, and they're actually better then their stats indicate.

Ultimately, what is the upside to retaining Haslett as opposed to bringing in another 3-4 coach? Sure in theory, the coach could be worse than Haslett. But they could also be far better. Right now, Haslett's performance is mediocre at best even if you consider the injuries.

Continuity plain and simple, and trust me when I say it can get worse. I was one of few Rex Grossman supporters on this website, and all I ever heard about Beck was "how much worst could it get?"

One 10 sack game later, and that tune wasn't hummed so loudly anymore.

[XtremeFan55]

What about Monte Kiffin? Recently resigned from USC to go back to NFL. Raheem Morris worked under him and Kyle worked on staff back when Gruden was head coach.

Then the Redskins can have their own Dick LeBeau....

Someone is going to get Monte...so why not us...we have coaches he is familiar with.