U C S D SkinsFan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shanahan and Allen are responsible for the 18 mil cap hits, so I don't give him that excuse. If anything, its another negative on his belt with all the other negatives. The only good thing he's done is draft rg3...where he gave up multiple future 1st rd picks. I think our next coach needs to be young and defensive minded with a good, offensive coordinator (I don't mind Kyle). Shanny has way too much control and his player moves have been terrible. Yeah our team is younger, but lacks talent. We need a coach like this ! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/curfew-violation-ends-with-jenkins-givens-running-stadium-stairs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shanahan and Allen are responsible for the 18 mil cap hits, so I don't give him that excuse. Really? So, if you get pulled over on the highway where the speed limit is 65 mph, and the cop gives you a ticket for doing 64 because all the other cops decided that really people shouldn't drive above 45 on that stretch of the highway, the laws be damned, I guess you would be responsible for getting that ticket, right? We wouldn't want any drivers breaking the spirit of the speed limit. ---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 11:19 AM ---------- Those arguments are all so flawed with the exception of capgate1) He added overpriced and old players in addition to giving away draft picks. Yeah he got rid of a lot of old guys...but he added McNabb. That in itself made the 2010 season a fail and punched a hole in the rebuild before it even really started. 2) Every team dealt with the same 2010 free agency issues 3) Every team dealt with the lockout (apparently most did a better job as well) 1) McaNabb was a mistake; Shanny has owned up to that (funny, considering how big of an ego he supposed to have and constantly gets bashed around here for). Hell, he admitted as much during the season when he benched him. He moved on from his mistake as quickly as he possibly could. 2) Not every team was starting a fresh new regime in 2010, nor had the deficiencies and needs that we did. That's like saying everyone dealt with the same hurricane, even though many people were without power for days while others had generators, and many people just stayed inside, while others had trees crash though their houses. It is not all relative. 3) Again, see #2. And, if you happen to be referring to the cap hit and insisting that it was our fault, again, getting a penalty for NOT breaking the rules and NOT breaking the law is completely asinine. And, so is anyone who would support such a grievance. The reason we are in the position we are in is due to the better part of 12 years not having patience. This board was ready to revolt because it wanted our owner to step away from football operations and have PATIENCE. Yet, are fans just won't be patient, and it is so hypocritical. Starting over with a new coach and new staff would be the absolute worst move this franchise could make at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shanahan and Allen are responsible for the 18 mil cap hits The league approved the roster moves in 2010. Why not go along with front loading Vinny's contracts when the league gives you the OK? The real issue there is John Mara, but I don't want to hijack this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I have never hoped for a Redskins blow out loss in my life, until now. Shanny's comments should have been the first shoe to drop, and I'm hoping a lame duck performance where in the post game presser Shanny blames eveyone but himself, further driving a wedge between himself and this team and the second shoe finally drops. Shanny would have to do something amazingly ignorant and shelfish to get fired before the end of the year-but if anyone can pull it off it's a Shanahan! For anyone who thinks this is a bit harsh, or that Shanny is a good coach/football guy, answer me this: how good would you feel about this team without RG3? say St Louis never made the trade with us-and you can name 2 players you would have taken with the 6th overall and 2nd round pick that was traded-what would this team look like? What has Shanny done in 3 years to improve this football team? When he came here, the D was OK, the offense was sputtering with no QB, no WR, a decent RB and no Oline, now the D is one of the worst in the league, still has no WR's, improved slightly at RB, still has no Oline, but he got a QB. So take the QB out of the equation, put in a top 10 pick and a second rounder and what, dear Skins fan, has Shanny given you? an upgrade at RB? a deteriorated defense with no prospects in the pipeline to fill retiring roles? Someone, please tell me how Shanny has made this team better in 3 years besides the drafting of RG3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Those arguments are all so flawed with the exception of capgate1) He added overpriced and old players in addition to giving away draft picks. Yeah he got rid of a lot of old guys...but he added McNabb. That in itself made the 2010 season a fail and punched a hole in the rebuild before it even really started. 2) Every team dealt with the same 2010 free agency issues 3) Every team dealt with the lockout (apparently most did a better job as well) 1) He added a QB he thought could be franchise guy for a few years until we find the right one. It didn't work out, but I'm so tired of people acting like he went and threw high draft picks at random players. That was a franchise QB who had just come off a Pro Bowl season. 2) Sure, but no team was starting from scratch like we were and in as bad as shape as we were. Let's just ignore that I guess. Let's just ignore the amount of players we had to cut who went on and did nothing in the NFL. Yup, every team was the same. 3) Again, yes, but the teams that came out and did well last year were mainly the teams that had systems and talent in place for a long time, not the ones virtually starting over as we were doing. We had a massive influx of younger players who ended up starting for us that didn't get a chance to develop as much. Guys like Hankerson, Aldrick Robinson and Perry Riley were all clearly affected. Again, let's just skip that though. So, no, they're not flawed once it's acknowledged that our team was, perhaps, the most that needed normalcy so we can actually do this rebuild right and it happened to occur at the worst possible time. Tht would've been all fine and dandy because we set ourselves up to be able to make up for lost time this past offseason by having a ton of cap space to address virtually ALL of our needs, but then we got hit with capgate to top it all off. Taken together, this rebuild has happened throughout the worst possible case scenario. That MUST be acknowledged and can NOT be overlooked, not even slightly. To focus on a couple mistakes as if no GM makes them ever in an attempt to devalue those external conditions affecting the rebuild is ridiculous and dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Wasn't there a story about Kraft calling Belichick a schmuck after the spygate incident and being pissed about it? I don't think its anything to worry about. I think Shanny's leash is getting shorter, but I can't see where it would make any sense to get rid of him after this season. Now that we're less than a week out from another Redskin Sunday, I'm coming back down to Earth. I think winning 7 games this year (with 3 of them being in the NFC East) would go a LONG way toward changing a lot of opinions and attitudes around here. Obviously, the best case scenario for anyone who loves this team is that things begin to click with THIS regime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I've never understood why people get mad when the truth is spoken. Shanahan was correct, to imply otherwise is ridiculous. This team has quit on defense, the secondary is a joke, the front 4 can't get to a QB with a 2 second headstart and we play an incredibly tough 2nd half of the season against mostly division foes. What? It's far from over. Our division isn't world beaters by any stretch and we have 3 straight division games coming up. We win all 3 we are at worst a game behind the Giants and at best tied for first (if Giants lose to Green Bay after the bye). We handle our business in division and we just a good a shot at winning the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I can see both sides of the debate, each one having its own merit. We have RG3, the injuries, etc. on one hand. On the other hand, we have the penalties, the awful defense, and the continued losing.However, if he got fired in the next few weeks (if we continue to crash and burn), I'm not so much of a homer as to not understand why. This is a results based business, with the results being "W"'s. I was sincerely hoping that we could snag a few of those along the "rebuilding" way, because it would've kept the "fire Mike" talk from bubbling up. Unfortunately, that's not what has transpired, and here we are. so what do we do then? Keep firing coaches every 2 or 3 years until we find somebody who can win within that time span? Do people really believe that is how this works? Playoffs by year 3 or you are fired, because it's a "bottom line" business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 so what do we do then? Keep firing coaches every 2 or 3 years until we find somebody who can win within that time span? Do people really believe that is how this works? Playoffs by year 3 or you are fired, because it's a "bottom line" business? In most cases...yeah. This is the NFL...a lot of coaches don't even make it to year 3 Most coaches that have Shanny's record would be gone by now. The only reason he is exempt from that and will get a year 4 is because he's Mike Shanahan (2 sb titles) and we just drafted RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just wanted to add that even though this is a heated debate it's nice to see it's been a civilized debate. Lot of point-counterpoint instead of insults. Good to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 In most cases...yeah.This is the NFL...a lot of coaches don't even make it to year 3 Most coaches that have Shanny's record would be gone by now. The only reason he is exempt from that and will get a year 4 is because he's Mike Shanahan (2 sb titles) and we just drafted RGIII. No, the only reason he's exempt from that is he's Mike Shanahan AND has come on to an organization that was acknowledged to be in complete shambles by it's owner. Where was that piece about Dan Snyder's handling of the whole situation with Zorn? He knew the team was totally screwed and was desperate for someone to come and fix it. Read my sig and it tells you all you need to know about how Shanahan viewed how long it was going to take. Dan understood that. The fans did too at the time. But we like to whine a lot. Honestly, the only one we should be real angry at is Dan himself. He's the one who has put us in this position, period. He's the one that brought this organization to such a low that it had to be dismantled and started from scratch. He's the one who gave an idiot like Haynesworth that massive contract that Allen tried to fix and had every right to do so, only to get penalized unjustly. ---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 11:59 AM ---------- Just wanted to add that even though this is a heated debate it's nice to see it's been a civilized debate. Lot of point-counterpoint instead of insults. Good to see. Shut up you idiot. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shut up you idiot. :pfft: I actually meant to put that in the "extension" thread. So bite me Mr. Mike Shanahan jock sniffer guy.:evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Lol...if this was that Philly board Igglephans...everyone's mother and uncle would have been curse by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U C S D SkinsFan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Really? So, if you get pulled over on the highway where the speed limit is 65 mph, and the cop gives you a ticket for doing 64 because all the other cops decided that really people shouldn't drive above 45 on that stretch of the highway, the laws be damned, I guess you would be responsible for getting that ticket, right? We wouldn't want any drivers breaking the spirit of the speed limit.I don't agree with the cap penalties, but they were warned that they shouldn't do this and will be punished. There wasn't anything written, but verbal warnings. My point is you can't give them the free pass of oh they had 36 mil in penalties so they couldn't fix the team...if any other administration was here, we wouldn't have had those penalties..just suffered the cap hits from the bad contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 but they were warned that they shouldn't do this and will be punished. There wasn't anything written, but verbal warnings. but what grounds did the NFL have for punishing them? What were they warned not to do? Don't spend like it's an uncapped year? It WAS an uncapped year by a contract the players and owners themselves signed, and was still in effect at the time the deals were done. I don't want to get into another capgate debate in this thread, because that's not what it's for. With that said, I can't let that comment go without responding to it. My point is you can't give them the free pass of oh they had 36 mil in penalties so they couldn't fix the team...if any other administration was here, we wouldn't have had those penalties..just suffered the cap hits from the bad contracts. Through no fault of their own doing they had to endure the cap penalty, of which they were notified 10 MINUTES before the start of free agency. They made smart business moves to dump dead money, and the other owners didn't like it, and because they didn't like it they punished them with no ethical, legal, and moral grounds in which to do so. The bottom line, is the other owners wanted Snyder to pay for that Haynesworth contract and not get out from under it so easily. The team found a loophole and exploited it. They should have gotten away with it. The NFL WAY overstepped it's bounds in forcing a punishment out of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I can understand his unhappiness.... Like I mentioned before, I can take losses, but statements like he had after that game are like a punch to the gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 How about the lock-out, shortened free agency, the Haynesworth deal, numerous injuries to key players over the last two years, capgate. Are those his fault? A fair shake could be 3 years depending on the context and circumstances, but you have to admit that the last 3 years for the Redskins have been anything but a NORMAL 3 NFL years. Like I said, he knew about most of that stuff before he took the job, he knew Haynesworth was a problem and he chose to make him an even bigger problem by not getting rid of him, but giving him the bonus and then giving him the rediculous conditioning test. Every team deals with injuries. Every team dealt with the lockout, so those are not excuses. No team has "normal". You think its "normal" for the Colts coach to be in the hospital, but they've got a better record than us. You think its normal for the Saints to have their coach suspended? But they have a better record than us. You think its normal for the Rams to have their defensive coordinator suspended? But they have a better record than us. You think its normal to have your starting QB retire and then unretire and then retire and all the BS that GB went through, but they won a super bowl. Do you think its normal for your $100 million QB to be arrested for dog fighting and miss 2 years? But the Falcons are a better team than us. ---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 09:15 PM ---------- I agree so much. How many coaches can you name that have Shanny's Washington record and survived? Even Norval Turner had a winning record by his third year! NORV!!! FREAKIN!!! TURNER!!!! I think Marvin Lewis may be the only guy that's been given such a chance. Kubiak had a bunch of 8-8 seasons and if that was the case with Shanny (once), I'd even be more considerate about him staying but people are excited because we get these "moral victories" in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 of course Carolina goes back to sucking after beating Skins.....maddening :mad: Nah, they just played a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 so what do we do then? Keep firing coaches every 2 or 3 years until we find somebody who can win within that time span? Do people really believe that is how this works? Playoffs by year 3 or you are fired, because it's a "bottom line" business? In most cases...yeah.This is the NFL...a lot of coaches don't even make it to year 3 Most coaches that have Shanny's record would be gone by now. The only reason he is exempt from that and will get a year 4 is because he's Mike Shanahan (2 sb titles) and we just drafted RGIII. I agree so much. How many coaches can you name that have Shanny's Washington record and survived? Even Norval Turner had a winning record by his third year! NORV!!! FREAKIN!!! TURNER!!!! I think Marvin Lewis may be the only guy that's been given such a chance. Kubiak had a bunch of 8-8 seasons and if that was the case with Shanny (once), I'd even be more considerate about him staying but people are excited because we get these "moral victories" in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 And in other news... the sky is blue... ---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 10:10 PM ---------- Shanny said they were in an evaluation period and going to see what kind of character this team has. They are on the outside looking in. Seems to me he was going to give a gut check and see who wants to win... For someone to whine that he's giving up... has already given up. A winner would respond to the challenge. Seems the players (and fans) who moaned should be the first cut. The ones who took it to play harder will be around next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhodatSkinsFan? Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 That makes 2 of us. Nothing much we can & will do now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Just read this on LL's twitter Source: Snyder made Shanahan backtrack/spin from his "evaluation" comments.. That explains the awkward Monday presser where Dan was mentioned A lot ---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 06:09 PM ---------- Jesus Christ...this too #Redskins executive on Shanahan " He is a joke at this point... A real expensive joke" ---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 06:11 PM ---------- For those that don't know him, LL posts on here regularly and is usually spot on. There is even more on here on his account. Damn...**** is going down https://twitter.com/HTTR24_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Jesus Christ...this too #Redskins executive on Shanahan " He is a joke at this point... A real expensive joke I saw that too. If the Redskins come out and lay an egg this weekend, look for Mike to be on the hot seat. We just can't stay away from the drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I saw that too. If the Redskins come out and lay an egg this weekend, look for Mike to be on the hot seat. We just can't stay away from the drama. Yeah, those reports are vey disturbing...very Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip80 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Especially if that coach is Tom Coughlin, Jason Garrett, or Andy Reid. Yeah. I wish we could get bugged at a coach like Coughlin. He seems to recuperate just fine about every 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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