Poll: Which has contributed the most to the Washington Redskins 3-6 record? Injuries, Lack of Quality Depth, or Coaching?

[darrelgreenie]

Yes, teams have won with injuries. Some have won big despite them. I guess the other question to ask is in year 2 of the actual "rebuild" since most have admitted that the first year was a throw away, should we have expected to be so deep with quality talent that we could overcome so many injuries?

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that some teams in the NFL succeed despite injury then claim its okay for us to then struggle because of injuries.

You can't pick the players then complain they're not good enough or there is a lack of depth. And if the players you selected are good enough then you've got to coach up a better product on the field.

I don't want get into the whole 're-build' excuse, whenever there is a lack of success you can't then blame it on rebuilding.

And BTW what did Mike Shanahan say about our depth?

[Commander PK]

Let's imagine, for a moment that the Texans lost:

Offense: Ben Tate, Justin Forsett, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Derek Newton (RT)

Defense: Watt, Barwin, D. Manning (SS), and Glover Quin (FS)

In those circumstances how would you expect them to perform?

This is an excellent way of looking at this situation. 90% of the time, the performance of the team will drop off significantly. Are there exceptions? Sure there are, see 2011 Packers, but they definately aren't the norm.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 01:42 PM ----------

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that some teams in the NFL succeed despite injury then claim its okay for us to then struggle because of injuries.

You can't pick the players then complain they're not good enough or there is a lack of depth. And if the players you selected are good enough then you've got to coach up a better product on the field.

I don't want get into the whole 're-build' excuse, whenever there is a lack of success you can't then blame it on rebuilding.

It's not a black and white issue. Just because one team succeeds because of injuries doesn't mean another will. Context is important. Have we had the front office stability of the Green Bay Packers?

And BTW what did Mike Shanahan say about our depth?

that we are the deepest we have been since he has been here. I don't think in saying that he meant, no matter who we lost on the field, we were guaranteed to be a competitor this season with the players that replaced them.

[kingarthur65]

For injuries, we lost:

Offense: Helu, Hightower, Garcon, Davis, and Brown

Defense: Carriker, Orakpo, Jackson, and Meriweather (and Neild)

Let's imagine, for a moment that the Texans lost:

Offense: Ben Tate, Justin Forsett, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Derek Newton (RT)

Defense: Watt, Barwin, D. Manning (SS), and Glover Quin (FS)

In those circumstances how would you expect them to perform?

If the Texans lost all of those players, do you think they would rank last in almost every meaningful defensive statistic? I don't believe they would. Because they have a respectable NFL COACHING staff.

[Commander PK]

If the Texans lost all of those players, do you think they would rank last in almost every meaningful defensive statistic? I don't believe they would. Because they have a respectable NFL COACHING staff.

that's anger talking, not reason.

[darrelgreenie]

For injuries, we lost:

Offense: Helu, Hightower, Garcon, Davis, and Brown

Defense: Carriker, Orakpo, Jackson, and Meriweather (and Neild)

Let's imagine, for a moment that the Texans lost:

Offense: Ben Tate, Justin Forsett, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Derek Newton (RT)

Defense: Watt, Barwin, D. Manning (SS), and Glover Quin (FS)

In those circumstances how would you expect them to perform?

To equate the players we lost to the hypothetical players that Houston would lose is laughable

[Commander PK]

To equate the players we lost to the hypothetical players that Houston would lose is laughable

Without an explanation this post means nothing.

[SkinsFTW]

Have we had the front office stability of the Green Bay Packers?

Even the Packers dropped off in Rodgers first year starting and it had nothing to do with him. They were 13-3 in 07 with Favre. 2008 was McCarthys 3rd season coaching and they finished 6-10 and Rodgers wasn't a rookie. People were seriously questioning McCarthys job. Then they turned it around and won the SB 2 years later.

[DogofWar1]

To equate the players we lost to the hypothetical players that Houston would lose is laughable

Why is it laughable? I'm looking at the losses we had, and comparing them to the Texans, who also run a 3-4 and have a solid running game. If you want to argue they'd still perform well, that's fine, but I'd like to see an argument.

My point there was that we lost 7 definite starters and a couple of runningback contributors, and yet people keep saying "we should overcome it anyway." I'd like to see every team take the same hits to their depth chart we have and play at that same level. Are there teams that would? Probably. Are they the norm? Most definitely not.

For another team, imagine the Giants lost JPP, Tuck, Rolle and Phillips (who is already out), on defense, and Nicks, Brown, Wilson, Locklear, and Bennett on offense. Would they still do well? Probably they'd do decently on offense, they'd still have Cruz and Bradshaw, and their Oline isn't really good to begin with, but on defense, losing JPP and Tuck, and losing Rolle over the top (in addition to Phillips who they are currently without) would make things very difficult for them, I'd have to imagine.

[pjfootballer]

Only thing that shouldn't be compared is JJ Watt and Carikker. Maybe if Carikker was compared to Jared Crick or Earl Mitchell.

[Smurf85]

Our biggest loss to this team was Orakpo. I mean other than that I don't see how injuries have anything to do with it. Yeah we lost Carikker, but I mean is DT our biggest problem. We have by far the worst secondary in the NFL. I mean It makes me sick to watch them. As for the offense I blame the play calling. Your only going to be able to play like a college offense for so long in the NFL. The coaches need to let RG3 pass in the pocket more and need to run Morris more. This 3 players in the backfield and option offense is getting old. With that being said its hard to do much on offense when you have to score a TD on every position, because the defense is so bad.

[Commander PK]

Our biggest loss to this team was Orakpo. I mean other than that I don't see how injuries have anything to do with it. Yeah we lost Carikker, but I mean is DT our biggest problem. We have by far the worst secondary in the NFL

We never had Brandon Meriweather and Tanard Jackson on the field together at the same time. They were supposed to be our starters, and from Day #1 neither have been on the field.

[DogofWar1]

Only thing that shouldn't be compared is JJ Watt and Carikker. Maybe if Carikker was compared to Jared Crick or Earl Mitchell.

Yeah, Watt's a bit much, but Antonio Smith isn't an entirely unfair comparison. I imagine Carriker's stats would improve quite a bit if we had a Watt-esque guy on the other end eating and beating double teams every play.

The main thing is, pretend they lost a starter on the Dline.

[RandyHolt]

D. None of the above.

In three years mike has assembled a line that struggles in basic pass protection

We can run and so can they, but its a passing league.

I wonder if Mike will admit the game has changed significantly in the past decade. Heck, he abhors hurry up and must be one of the few coaches to do so.

5000 passing yards from all last year playoff QBs (everyone but Timmy) says a lot to me.

[kingarthur65]

We never had Brandon Meriweather and Tanard Jackson on the field together at the same time. They were supposed to be our starters, and from Day #1 neither have been on the field.

The players that we have in those positions have not developed and are making the same mistakes they were making in week 1. How many times does Madieu Williams need to get beat over the top before the coaches learn they are proving the definition of insanity. Keep giving Williams the same responsibility and expect a different result.

This game is not only about talent. It's also about scheme and coaching ability. As was proven when our defense gave up 12 receptions to Amendola in the first half. Yes, that's correct 12 catches by the Rams first receiving option. Coaches will usually make adjustments in their play calling or assignments when they continually get beat. I have yet to see it from our staff.

[Idaho fan]

I voted for injuries as I think it has had a huge impact but obviously our record is a result in some combination of all three.

[skinsfan07]

It's a combination of injuries and coaching and it's falling mostly on the defensive side of the ball.

Agreed. ith decent coaching and better mindset's in crunch time (St Louis game, Giants gaem) we easily could be 6-3, or better. smh I feel like it's the same old story every year.

[SKINS'n'Spurs]

All of the above

The secondary is terrible and I had little confidence before the season with Meriweather and Jackson as our starters. It's a toss up wether we should focus on getting better targets and protections for RGIII on the offense or if we should just cut loose this all time NFL worst defense and start new with free agency and draft picks.... I think I'm leaning toward the latter and hoping these dropped passes are just a bad streak and they will work themselves out.

[CoolHandLuke]

As of 6:15 PM EST on Monday 11/5/12, Jim Haslett is still employed by the Redskins organization. SMFH

[Leonard Washington]

I voted for lack of quality backup and that's due to the $36M cap hit.

[steve09ru]

D. None of the above.

In three years mike has assembled a line that struggles in basic pass protection

We can run and so can they, but its a passing league.

I wonder if Mike will admit the game has changed significantly in the past decade. Heck, he abhors hurry up and must be one of the few coaches to do so.

5000 passing yards from all last year playoff QBs (everyone but Timmy) says a lot to me.

only 3 qb's total had over 5000 yards last season, 1 got it by 38 yards

the rest:

Smith - 3144

dalton- 3398

flacco 3610

big ben 4077

ryan 4177

schaub/yates 3428

?? tebow/orton since orton went to KC

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 07:38 PM ----------

D. None of the above.

In three years mike has assembled a line that struggles in basic pass protection

We can run and so can they, but its a passing league.

I wonder if Mike will admit the game has changed significantly in the past decade. Heck, he abhors hurry up and must be one of the few coaches to do so.

5000 passing yards from all last year playoff QBs (everyone but Timmy) says a lot to me.

double post

[MustangSteve]

Of course we know all 3 contribute, but it wasn't just starters that got injured, it was our best weapons on offense and defense. That put a hurt piece on us.

[skinsforlife101]

It's a combination of all three. Orakpo's injury hurt. But I personally don't think Haslet's scheme is working and the players are not buying into it. It looked like the defense just plain gave up against Pitt two weeks ago, and last week was no better. I have been supporting Shanny since day one but something has to be done before he losses this team.

[Chachie]

It's the injuries. Look at who we've lost this season..

Orakpo (HUGE loss and now we kow how underrated he was.)

Garcon (HUGE loss. We needed a WR1 worse than anything.)

Carriker (Maybe he was underrated too.)

Davis (HUGE loss. He was the only big-talent receiving threat we had left when Garcon went down.)

Merriweather (We've never really had him.)

Most other teams have lost maybe two of their best options at key positions.

Oh- I picked injuries but it's really the secondary. They give it up all day. I call them "The Ushers."

[mi6]

I would say ALL of the ABOVE!

Yes, injuries to keep starters has hampered the Skins.

Yes, not having quality depth has had an adverse impact.

Poor coaching. Yes! The Defensive and Special Team coaches are just garbage! We seriously need to upgrade the coaching staff.

[The Fax]

Take a look at these advanced statistics, a bit worrysome regarding %Deep (a statistic that measures the number of pass attempts >15 yards). RG3 is 30th at 16%!

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

You have to wonder, is Kyle protecting his young QB from making mistakes, or is something wrong with RG3's deep ball? I'm just trying to make some sense of the non-existant vertical passing attack.