For Midget Fans: Why John Mara cheated

[Kostaskins]

Every time we play the gaymen this topic will be brought up all the time. This will happen for years upon years! Watch Mara will live to regret this sooner or later. Karma is a B......!

[RedskinsInFebruary]

I never considered how this might feed into player motivation this Sunday. Hope it does. A win would be very sweet indeed.

[KyleVA]

Is there anywhere I can read an unbiased, thought out, and legible description of this situation? I, honestly, did not hear about this until August and never really read any of the articles circulating regarding this matter.

[skins2victory]

When this debacle came to be, coach said he would talk about it when he could, when the time was right, but he was unable to comment at that time.......

-I could be wrong, but I don’t think he has commented on the situation yet, has he??? And if not, I am curious as to why he hasn’t yet. It’s supposed to be over with right, nothing more we can do?? What would he be waiting for??

[ThomasRoane]

**** Mara and the gaymen!

[SkinsHokieFan]

Is there anywhere I can read an unbiased, thought out, and legible description of this situation? I, honestly, did not hear about this until August and never really read any of the articles circulating regarding this matter.

The first post in this thread

[FanboyOf91]

Allow me to add my voice to the chorus of "**** That Guy"s.

Seriously, **** you Mara, you are the lesser son of a greater man.

P.S. And **** you too Goodell. Tagliabue would have never let an owner ****whip him like that.

[HeluCopter29]

Yes, you are correct.

I'm not saying the Redskins are in the wrong for not going along with the collusion. I'm saying that the Redskins gained a competitive advantage by playing by rules other teams weren't, and that I understand why the NFL would have a problem with that. I understand why the Redskins were punished. What I don't understand is why everyone else wasn't.

My argument is not about picking a winner between the two sides, at least it was never intended that way. My argument was only to point out that I do think they gained an advantage over other teams. The Redskins were a poorly run team both on the field and financially. I can see why other teams hated the idea that they were able to wipe out their bad decisions so easily. I can also see why they didn't want teams being reckless with no cap for a year.

You're always free to call my opinion stupid. I just don't think the Redskins are the innocent party they're touted as when this conversation comes up amongst Redskins fans...

Because to be guilty of something, you have to break a rule.

The Redskins didn't break a rule. Therefore, they are innocent. I don't see any get around that.

And here's the other part you're forgetting... we weren't the only ones. The Bears did this to Julius Peppers. The Bucs did this as well. The Saints actually moved more cap room then we did but somehow they were penalized by not receiving any of the redistribution of cap room. That just doesn't seem to add up to me.

John Mara ****ed the Redskins and the Cowboys. Plain and simple.

[Boss_Hogg]

That ******* Mara also taunted the Redskins by stating "They're lucky draft picks weren't taken away."

You all know good and well that Mara wanted the Skins to lose on drafting RGIII.

[rskin72]

Well.....I have read a bit about this....and listened to the little bit of talk that this generated on ESPN and NFL networks last spring. One poster who mentioned that the owners were PO'd at the Skins and Boyz because they drove up the price of some free agent salaries hit the nail on the head. As I recall, SD was one of those teams who were not happy that by Dallas signing one of their WR's to a big contract, this in turn drove up the price for VJax, thus making it even less likely that the Chargers could get him back. Same holds for Dhall and Fat Albert contracts that we enacted or modified. And....this was not a call by the FO, I am sure, this had to have been with Snyders blessing so either Snyder did not remember the meeting where all owners shook pinkies and made the "gentlemens" agreement to maintain a salary ceiling even in an uncapped year....or Snyder just decided to roll the dice.

Either way.....a uncapped season SHOULD mean just that. This is leverage that the players had over the owners in order to try and get them to work out a labor deal prior to the uncapped season. I can't recall the exact figures....but we spent a bit over 170 million that season....the Girlz spend over 160....couple of other teams were over 140....many were right arounf 120 (the "gentlemen" owners) and 3 or 4 were way under 120 mil.....think 3 were under 100 mil. Basically those cheap owners were just saving money to put back into their pocket vs other owners who actually spent money on the players.

The NFLPA signed off on the Redskin and Girlz penalty because Demaurice Smith was up for reelection, and it was about to come out that the salary cap for this season was lower than it had been prior to the new agreement. Kind of a back room agreement between Smith and the NFL lead to the final nails in our coffin. Then....after we tried to take this to an arbitrator only to have him rule that he did not have the power to decide this.....and after Mara put his foot in his mouth by pubicly mentioning the gentlemens agreement on salary cap (i.e. collusion)....the NFLPA finally got involved and sued the NFL. That case is still pending, but gets little publicity.

This whole incident has really not gotten a lot of notice, unfortunately. That has allowed the NFL to kind of sweep it under the rug so no one will dig deeper into the collusion aspect of this issue. The two owners who were punished were probably not well liked anyhow within the owners club.....so no one shedding any tears there.

And...no....I still have not heard Mike Shanahan address this other than to basically provide no comment.

[Commander PK]

You're always free to call my opinion stupid. I just don't think the Redskins are the innocent party they're touted as when this conversation comes up amongst Redskins fans...

Here's my issue though...and I've thoroughly enjoyed catching up on this thread tonight.

You can't give somebody life in prison for a speeding ticket, to get "even" with them for the murder they were acquitted of last year.

[s0crates]

Well.....I have read a bit about this....and listened to the little bit of talk that this generated on ESPN and NFL networks last spring. One poster who mentioned that the owners were PO'd at the Skins and Boyz because they drove up the price of some free agent salaries hit the nail on the head. As I recall, SD was one of those teams who were not happy that by Dallas signing one of their WR's to a big contract, this in turn drove up the price for VJax, thus making it even less likely that the Chargers could get him back. Same holds for Dhall and Fat Albert contracts that we enacted or modified. And....this was not a call by the FO, I am sure, this had to have been with Snyders blessing so either Snyder did not remember the meeting where all owners shook pinkies and made the "gentlemens" agreement to maintain a salary ceiling even in an uncapped year....or Snyder just decided to roll the dice.

Either way.....a uncapped season SHOULD mean just that. This is leverage that the players had over the owners in order to try and get them to work out a labor deal prior to the uncapped season. I can't recall the exact figures....but we spent a bit over 170 million that season....the Girlz spend over 160....couple of other teams were over 140....many were right arounf 120 (the "gentlemen" owners) and 3 or 4 were way under 120 mil.....think 3 were under 100 mil. Basically those cheap owners were just saving money to put back into their pocket vs other owners who actually spent money on the players.

The NFLPA signed off on the Redskin and Girlz penalty because Demaurice Smith was up for reelection, and it was about to come out that the salary cap for this season was lower than it had been prior to the new agreement. Kind of a back room agreement between Smith and the NFL lead to the final nails in our coffin. Then....after we tried to take this to an arbitrator only to have him rule that he did not have the power to decide this.....and after Mara put his foot in his mouth by pubicly mentioning the gentlemens agreement on salary cap (i.e. collusion)....the NFLPA finally got involved and sued the NFL. That case is still pending, but gets little publicity.

This whole incident has really not gotten a lot of notice, unfortunately. That has allowed the NFL to kind of sweep it under the rug so no one will dig deeper into the collusion aspect of this issue. The two owners who were punished were probably not well liked anyhow within the owners club.....so no one shedding any tears there.

And...no....I still have not heard Mike Shanahan address this other than to basically provide no comment.

This is a good summary for those trying to get caught up.

[Commander PK]

....or Snyder just decided to roll the dice.

Thank you for your whole post, you summed up the situation well. I'm no lawyer, I'm just an aggravated pissed off fan that hates injustice when I see it.

As to your "roll the dice" comment. They did exactly that, which was a smart business move in my opinion that violated no laws and no written rules. They behaved exactly as the current CBA allowed them to behave. The problem is, and (see my analogy a few posts up) is that the other owners were so irritated with Snyder and Jones for a multitude of "sins" against the "fraternity" (as another poster so eloquently put it) they decided to get back at them in a way that telegraphed they were breaking the law. Team Management probably figured the NFL would not have had the gall to go after them on this, because to do so would open them up to all sorts of larger issues. The fact that the owners did exactly that, and have been allowed to get away with it is a travesty.

If the players association ends up winning their lawsuit, the owners and Mara should really ask themselves was their petty attack on the Redskins and Cowboys worth it? Or has all this done more harm than good.

[grego]

this whole notion by our own fans that the redskins tried to get an unfair 'competitive advantage' in unloading a couple of bad contracts in the uncapped year is a load of bunk.

the redskins didnt do anything any other team couldnt have done. every team in the NFL tries to put themselves in the best position to win, whether it be financially, personnel-wise, whatever. this is what the redskins did. they played by the rules, and got screwed by the man.

how some of our own fans dont see this, i have no idea.

[G1]

The context is this:

The league was in a dispute with the players association. Part of that did away with the salary cap.

There are two roads to take with that:

- each team does as they please

- each team sticks to a relatively similar strategy they were doing under the old CBA.

I am sorry but you're a little off with your context.

The League were not in dispute with the player's association. They were playing in an uncapped season under the remit of the previous Collective Bargaining Agreement. There was an agreement for an uncapped year. You have to consider these issues in that context. The correct context.

It would be illegal to engage in any collusion to avoid the uncapped year. The Redskins, and several other teams, simply played by the rules that had been agreed between the league and the union. They had no unfair advantage. Any team acting properly could have done what the Redskins (and others) did. Those that engaged in the collusion acted illegally. That is the context within which the League approved the Redskins contracts.

It is irrational, in the correct context, to consider the Redskins as anything but the innocent party in this completely.

That the Redskins and the Union may have signed their rights away under the latest CBA doesn't alter anything,

What's really annoying about Mara's big mouth and decision to pursue the Redskins and Cowboys for not joining his illegal collusion is not that it harms the Skins (which it does) but it may jeopardize the whole CBA.

[Kostaskins]

Is the lawsuit from the players union still pending? And are there any updates? Any deadline to make a decision? After the year is over?? Any reliable source in the net that can post this info???

[KingGibbs]

My only question is why haven't the Redskins continued to pursue this via more mediation or courts?

I had my pitchfork and torch in hand ready to March to New York, but after thinking about it, the 'skins and 'boys silence on the matter has raised my suspicion towards the two clubs.

[Henry]

This thread is a bunch of :beatdeadhorse:.

The Giants are a class organization starting with their ownership.

The Skins are moving in the right direction.

That being said. :giantsuck:

The Giants WERE a class organization. That's over. Little Mara has seen to that.

I will never again respect that gang of backstabbing whiners and I am fine seeing this brought up every time we play them.

I used to have a grudging respect for the Giants. No longer. I hope they lose every game they play, and some they don't.

[Bigmuss1]

I kinda gotta feeling that after this season is over, Danny Snyder and Jerruh Jones may address this issue. Just a feeling...

[KyleVA]

**** Mara and the gaymen!

Yeah.. That description really didn't fill in all the holes for me.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37421/im-not-sure-john-mara-should-be-talking

That was a good one.

[FanboyOf91]

My only question is why haven't the Redskins continued to pursue this via more mediation or courts?

I had my pitchfork and torch in hand ready to March to New York, but after thinking about it, the 'skins and 'boys silence on the matter has raised my suspicion towards the two clubs.

The mediator's decision was final. Our only viable legal option is indirectly via the collusion lawsuit by the NFLPA (in which we've been left out of the defendants).

[clskinsfan]

You failed to mention one of the most disgusting things about the penalty. It was issued the NIGHT BEFORE free agency opened. What a gutless move by Mara and the League. You wait until a few hours before free agency opens and leave the Skins NO chance to adjust any other contracts to make a big splash. As you can tell, I am still bitter.

[SWFLSkins]

I am just here to educate. The amount of ignorance on this by fans of our opponents is staggering.

Yell it from the mountain top, truth must be told. HE not We cheated.

[slaga]

My only question is why haven't the Redskins continued to pursue this via more mediation or courts?

I had my pitchfork and torch in hand ready to March to New York, but after thinking about it, the 'skins and 'boys silence on the matter has raised my suspicion towards the two clubs.

The only reason the Skins and Dallas did not pursue this any further is because they would have had to fight in court to prove collusion. That would have been very detrimental to the League as a whole. Even if the Redskins win in court, they along with the other owners would lose a lot of money from the damage from the law suit. Hence the term "going nuclear" that has been used multiple times.

The mediator's decision was final. Our only viable legal option is indirectly via the collusion lawsuit by the NFLPA (in which we've been left out of the defendants).

The mediator's decision was not final. The mediator just said, accoring to the NFL by-laws, he could not hear the case, mainly because the NFLPA signed off on the penalties. The mediator gave no decision in any way and left the possibility of the Skins and Dallas sueing completely open.

[PCS]

From one of the links posted in the OP.

Last week, the NFL filed a brief that devotes 10-plus pages to the concise, conclusive, and convincing demonstration that the players signed away their right to sue for collusion occurring in 2010. As to the suggestion that the NFL had a secret salary cap of $123 million in 2010, the NFL shows that the actual spending contradicts the existence of a secret cap,with team-by-team numbers that, for 21 franchises, exceeded the allegedly secret spending limit.

Uh huh.

And following that one.

It’s a strong presentation of facts and law. But, as the league seems to do from time to time, it brief goes one step too far, at page 13: “There were no rules or agreements broken by the Redskins, the Cowboys, or any other Club with respect to Player Contracts executed in the 2010 League Year.”

The League was up against a wall. Free Agency was literally right around the corner and there was no deal done yet. Actually,they were looking at a salary cap that was less than the what they had before and that simply wouldn't do. This worked out for Mara especially. His team had messed up their cap situation and were not too fond of what that could mean for the future season. Redskins and Cowboys represented a nice amount of money available even after it was split 28 ways. Not only that,they were division opponents and what the hell? He could get in a nice shot or two at Jerry and Dan. So the decision to go after their cap money was an easy, opportunistic one. Nail two teams instead of 21,(and as I stated,division opponents as well),and come up with some extra money for the cap. NFLPA reps had to take the deal for similar reasons as the NFL was offering it. No way they could go to the players with a cap figure less than what it was before. Deal's made at the last moment and the announcement is made just as soon as they can get the papers signed. Perfect timing for Mara and the Giants.