AsiaticSkinsFan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Everyone is killing him for a bad Finals' date=' but I felt he was the reason OKC beat the Lakers and Spurs. I just don't see a situation where OKC is going to have three top 20 players again. I would have rather rolled that out for a year and gone for the title than basically concede the season before it starts.[/quote'] he wasnt good against the Lakers the only series he was great was the Spurs. Damien Lillard is another rookie who is playing well. ---------- Post added October-31st-2012 at 11:40 PM ---------- Dwight'has no explosion right now. The Clippers looking good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Curry having a bad shooting night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Everyone is killing him for a bad Finals' date=' but I felt he was the reason OKC beat the Lakers and Spurs. I just don't see a situation where OKC is going to have three top 20 players again. I would have rather rolled that out for a year and gone for the title than basically concede the season before it starts.[/quote']They chose Ibaka which I think is the mistake. Everyone loves him but his production is much more easily replaced. The worst part is that they lacked interior scoring (Battier took Ibaka entirely out of the finals, on both ends) and after this trade they still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 They chose Ibaka which I think is the mistake. Everyone loves him but his production is much more easily replaced. The worst part is that they lacked interior scoring (Battier took Ibaka entirely out of the finals, on both ends) and after this trade they still do. while I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who can replace his help defense, Ibaka is a pretty average 1v1 defender in the post. And he has no offensive game like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Nash is injured. That didnt take long. Edit: whoever this announcer is on nbatv I don't know, but he sounds like Stan Lee (marvel comics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Everyone is killing him for a bad Finals' date=' but I felt he was the reason OKC beat the Lakers and Spurs. I just don't see a situation where OKC is going to have three top 20 players again. I would have rather rolled that out for a year and gone for the title than basically concede the season before it starts.[/quote']How is a team with Durant and Westbrook conceding anything? Harden was never going to put up the numbers he did tonight on an everyday basis in OKC with Westbrook and Durant there so it's not like OKC is needing to replace that stats of a number one player. What they have to replace is 17 pts per game in 31 minutes which is exactly what they got in Kevin Martin. Only difference is 1.5 rebounds less and 1 assist less per game. Martin is actually a better FT shooter to be on the floor at crunch time. Throw in two first round picks and Jeremy Lamb and who is to say they aren't better now? They will still be great and now have more valuable assets to move in a trade if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 How is a team with Durant and Westbrook conceding anything? Harden was never going to put up the numbers he did tonight on an everyday basis in OKC with Westbrook and Durant there so it's not like OKC is needing to replace that stats of a number one player. What they have to replace is 17 pts per game in 31 minutes which is exactly what they got in Kevin Martin. Only difference is 1.5 rebounds less and 1 assist less per game. Martin is actually a better FT shooter to be on the floor at crunch time. Throw in two first round picks and Jeremy Lamb and who is to say they aren't better now? They will still be great and now have more valuable assets to move in a trade if need be. Martin is awful. Harden gave them three elite scoring options, two great ball handlers, and a pretty good perimeter defender...plus he's a guy with an edge who attacks the rim like only maybe three other guards in the league do. Martin is maybe the worst defender in the league. He requires half a dozen screens to get his points. He's not a good ball handler. He'll be an ok sixth man, but I don't see him playing in the last 4 minutes of any important game. And Lamb is a rookie. They traded an All Star for a one dimensional player and some future assets. NBA fans are obsessed with tomorrow for some reason. I don't get it. Somehow Lamb and a potential later lottery pick is as valuable as one of the three best shooting guards in the league - who I may add is only 23 years old. ---------- Post added October-31st-2012 at 11:31 PM ---------- Name a shooting guard who does not turn 30 this season that is better than Harden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Martin is awful.Harden gave them three elite scoring options' date=' two great ball handlers, and a pretty good perimeter defender...plus he's a guy with an edge who attacks the rim like only maybe three other guards in the league do. Martin is maybe the worst defender in the league. He requires half a dozen screens to get his points. He's not a good ball handler. He'll be an ok sixth man, but I don't see him playing in the last 4 minutes of any important game. And Lamb is a rookie. They traded an All Star for a one dimensional player and some future assets. NBA fans are obsessed with tomorrow for some reason. I don't get it. Somehow Lamb and a potential later lottery pick is as valuable as one of the three best shooting guards in the league - who I may add is only 23 years old. ---------- Post added October-31st-2012 at 11:31 PM ---------- Name a shooting guard who does not turn 30 this season that is better than Harden. You are missing the point. Harden was never going to put up the numbers in OKC that he'll put in Houston. They didn't need Harden to do that. Harden may average 25-30 points and 7 assists per game in Houston. In OKC he was only going to average 17 and 4 again cause that was his roll so that's his value in OKC. That's all the Thunder need to replace. Maybe the Thunder will be worse, maybe not, but when you have Durant and Westbrook, you aren't conceding anything. ---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 04:57 AM ---------- Over/under on how many games Mike Brown will be the Lakers head coach this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The Thunder didnt want to get into the luxury tax and they probably felt they had a crowded perimeter last season. Too many guys looking to pull up and shoot. After all they had their best player occupying the 1, 2, and 3. They weren't looking for the second best, and much smaller, big three. I can understand that. But I don't see how they are better or even the same after the trade. Martin is not nearly as good as Harden and future picks in the nba tend to not matter much. Now they did draft PJ3 and maybe he gives them something inside, but its not likely. They still have no interior scoring and now they have less scoring options in big moments. All they accomplished was lower salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The Thunder didnt want to get into the luxury tax and they probably felt they had a crowded perimeter last season. Too many guys looking to pull up and shoot. After all they had their best player occupying the 1, 2, and 3. They weren't looking for the second best, and much smaller, big three. I can understand that.But I don't see how they are better or even the same after the trade. Martin is not nearly as good as Harden and future picks in the nba tend to not matter much. Now they did draft PJ3 and maybe he gives them something inside, but its not likely. They still have no interior scoring and now they have less scoring options in big moments. All they accomplished was lower salary. Agreed on the lack of inside scoring presence but why couldn't they be better but there seems to be an assumption that Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka and the other young players won't have improved their own games. Anyone think Durant isn't capable of making up some of the scoring difference and putting in 33 per game? As far as the future picks, I view them as assets to land another player if need be via trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Agreed on the lack of inside scoring presence but why couldn't they be better but there seems to be an assumption that Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka and the other young players won't have improved their own games. Anyone think Durant isn't capable of making up some of the scoring difference and putting in 33 per game? As far as the future picks, I view them as assets to land another player if need be via trade. There is no player in the history of the nba that can simply erase the loss of a star. The heat were not better or even the same without Bosh. His return really changed the Boston series even if Lebron had all the attention and played out of his mind. They have the best player in the nba and couldn't simply shrug off the absence of a star. The Thunder traded a star for a role player and some draft picks. Defenses can focus more on Westbrook and Durant now. Every shot Martin or Lamb takes from outside of 15 feet is a win for the defense... And Ibaka and Perkins can't score. The Thunder screwed up here and if you want proof... Just ask laker fans. They loved the trade more than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't think anyone in the NBA really fears the lakers right now...That team has a ways to go before they figure it out. Harden makes Hou into ATL west, a treadmill team, he's a star by default since the SG position is disturbingly weak in the NBA. That all being said he couldn't have had a better first game, although the pistons have a pretty meh backcourt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Mike Brown was a pretty bad hire. The Lakers need a better coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 My dude Harden showed out last night. I can't believe there are honestly people out there who questioned his skill. I heard it all. Benefitted from KD/Russ getting all the attention. Scoring against only #3/#4 best players on the court. It goes on and on. Harden has been putting in work for a couple of seasons in OKC. He's the real deal. It's only one game, but from the jump I never thought him making the transition to a starter would be a big deal. I know the SG position is starting to crumble around the league w/ Kobe's age, Wade falling apart, amongst other things. I SERIOUSLY think that Harden can make a case for being the best 2-guard in the league by the time the season is over. He does so many things well, it isn't even funny. He's one of the best in the league at getting to the rim (and finishing), he's deadly in the open floor, and he can facilitate the offense. He's a jack of all trades. I wouldn't be shocked at a statline of 23/5/5 out of him this year while shooting around 50%. Oh, and Jeremy Lin is going to reap the benefits of having Harden in the backcourt. Pressure is somewhat off of #7. ---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 08:41 AM ---------- Mike Brown was a pretty bad hire. The Lakers need a better coach Yup....he's not a good coach to begin with. Lakers won't do **** as long as he's calling the shots from the sideline. I said 20 games and he'd be canned...might be sooner than that if they struggle in the first 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't think anyone in the NBA really fears the lakers right now...That team has a ways to go before they figure it out. Harden makes Hou into ATL west, a treadmill team, he's a star by default since the SG position is disturbingly weak in the NBA. That all being said he couldn't have had a better first game, although the pistons have a pretty meh backcourt. I don't think teams feared the Lakers for the past 3 seasons. They never been a team with a great amount of depth. But the past 2 seasons, its be a glaring issue. Nash is already hurt and don't expect that he will be the only one to miss any significant amount of time. Its going to be interesting how they manage their minutes through out the season as they attempt to build chemistry at the sametime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Oh...and Dwight Howard still hasn't re-upped w. LA. This year could COMPLETELY backfire on a number of levels for the Lakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 There is no player in the history of the nba that can simply erase the loss of a star. The heat were not better or even the same without Bosh. His return really changed the Boston series even if Lebron had all the attention and played out of his mind. They have the best player in the nba and couldn't simply shrug off the absence of a star. The Thunder traded a star for a role player and some draft picks. Defenses can focus more on Westbrook and Durant now. Every shot Martin or Lamb takes from outside of 15 feet is a win for the defense... And Ibaka and Perkins can't score. The Thunder screwed up here and if you want proof... Just ask laker fans. They loved the trade more than anyone. The comparison isn't a good one because, as you have rightly pointed out, OKC lacks the back to the basket scorer. Bosh came back and gave the Heat size and a back to the basket presence and not another wing player taking it to the basket. Bosh didn't need to dominate the ball. If you are saying they messed up the trade by not adding a better PF or C that's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The comparison isn't a good one because, as you have rightly pointed out, OKC lacks the back to the basket scorer. Bosh came back and gave the Heat size and a back to the basket presence and not another wing player taking it to the basket. Bosh didn't need to dominate the ball. If you are saying they messed up the trade by not adding a better PF or C that's different. They messed up because they let a Top 15/Top 20 (Hell maybe Top 10) player go for a one-year rental of Kevin Freaking Martin. Yes, they have picks but so what? That doesn't change the fact that they went from one of the 3 teams who legitimately challenge the Heat this year to a team that could lose in the second round to, like, Memphis. And the thing about draft picks is that they need one of those picks to be as good as the guy they just traded for it to make any sense. And even then, you basically lost two years of Durant and Westbrook's championship window. I hate the trade because it had nothing to do with basketball. It was a financial decision. Nothing more. Nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tone_dubbz Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Oh, and Jeremy Lin is going to reap the benefits of having Harden in the backcourt. Pressure is somewhat off of #7. Watching them two together on the court, I was thinking to myself this is going to be a pretty ill back court. I didn't see the turnover count for Lin, but he did have 8 dimes. I ain't going to lie, I was kind of skeptical about Lin hooping for the rockets. With the addition of Harden, looks like a great move for the both of them. I bet you the Knicks are going to feel like :pooh: come mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I hate the trade because it had nothing to do with basketball. It was a financial decision. Nothing more. Nothing less. Get used to it. The last CBA put in a tax with teeth and teams are going to avoid it. I heard that if the Laker's sign Howard they'll pay 90 million in tax next year which I doubt they'll tolerate for a season let alone more than one. The Harden trade is the first big evidence that the CBA's goal of having stars distributed around the league instead of collecting in one place might actually work and the tax hasn't really even kicked in yet. Right now teams are still paying the dollar for dollar tax. Next year: Amount - Luxury Tax - repeat offender Tax (for teams that have been over the tax for four or more seasons) $5 million or less - $1.50 - $2.50 $5 to $10 - $1.75 - $2.75 $10 to $15 - $2.50 - $3.50 $15 to $25 - $3.25 - $4.25 Increases by 0.50 for every $5 million over after that. If the Laker resign Howard they'll be about 32 million over from what I've read triggering a 94.5 million dollar tax on 102 million of payroll. Suddenly draft picks are going to matter because teams will need the cheaper talent and long term contracts are going to be much more damaging to the big payroll teams than they were in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Watching them two together on the court, I was thinking to myself this is going to be a pretty ill back court. I didn't see the turnover count for Lin, but he did have 8 dimes. In my world, it is 1997 forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Watching them two together on the court, I was thinking to myself this is going to be a pretty ill back court. I didn't see the turnover count for Lin, but he did have 8 dimes. I ain't going to lie, I was kind of skeptical about Lin hooping for the rockets. With the addition of Harden, looks like a great move for the both of them. I bet you the Knicks are going to feel like :pooh: come mid-season. Harden did succeed in killing any talk of Linsanity. The trade for Harden and his debut, especially with that stat line, actually made the guys on NBATV say "and don't forget about Jeremy Lin, he's on the Rockets too". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I knew Harden's game was going to have people saying uh-oh. But don't get it twisted, no matter what Harden does, the Thunder are the winners of this trade. They weren't going to sign him back anyway and they got incredible value for him.... With that being said, that Harden/Lin back court is going to be fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I knew Harden's game was going to have people saying uh-oh. But don't get it twisted, no matter what Harden does, the Thunder are the winners of this trade. They weren't going to sign him back anyway and they got incredible value for him.... Do they have a better chance of winning a title this year now or a week ago? What's the goal here? To win a title or to have assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Do they have a better chance of winning a title this year now or a week ago?What's the goal here? To win a title or to have assets? Who the Rockets or the Thunder? In both cases, I think both teams have a better chance to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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