***2012-13 NBA THREAD!!! New Season/New Thread - LET'S GO!!!!!***

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Hey Asiatic, who said DWade is a better jump shooter than Kobe?

Are you talking about me?

you did

Wade is also at least as good a shooter as Kobe is.

Kobe has never been considered a particularly good shooter. He's average at best. Same with Wade.

Now Kobe is tremendous shooting around the basket. Great diversity of moves for creating space. If he's within 15 feet, he's tremendous. Put him in the mid range, freethrow line to 3 point line (15 to 23 feet) and he's nothing special. His shooting percentages aren't subpar simply because he takes terrible shots so often, but also because he's not a great shooter.

Neither Wade nor LeBron are shooters! But LeBron is a far better and more efficient shooter than Kobe and Wade is just as average as Kobe is. The ridiculous, trollish statement was saying Kobe has the best mid range game in the NBA. That's completely absurd. I was pointing out how a guy with a very mediocre mid range game (LeBron) was actually better and more effective than Kobe.

Mid range game is defined as 15-23 feet. Inside 15? Kobe is great and probably is the best in the league. He's also solid enough from 3. But from mid range Kobe is inefficient and unremarkable. There are easily at least 25 players in the NBA better from that range than Kobe. Hell, bigs like Chris Bosh and Kevin Garnett are better from that range than Kobe.

LOL. What stats are you using? It's straight up common knowledge Kobe's not a great shooter.

Here are some stats for you:

-- Kobe finished 89th in jump shot % this year league wide.

-- Kobe finished 58th last year

-- 54th the year before

-- 59th in 08/09

-- 96th in 07/08

-- 57th in 06/07

-- 61st in 05/06

-- 180th in 04/05

-- 169th in 03/04

-- 55th in 02/03

-- 63rd in 01/02

-- 182nd in 00/01

Those numbers don't even truly reflect how ordinary/subpar his midrange game is either because they include his jumpers close to the basket, where he is admittedly excellent. They only exclude layups, dunks, hook shots, and tip ins.

*sigh*

I have no idea where you got those figures from, but they look suspect. Not because a lot of guys dont shoot a higher percent from midrange than Kobe, but because we have no idea how many attempts those players are getting.

anyway, here are the numbers since they started keeping the midrange shooting statistics in 2007

Wade

2007: 38%

2008: 37%

2009: 42%

2010: 36%

2011: 37%

2012: 37%

Lebron:

2007: 34%

2008: 37%

2009: 40%

2010: 40%

2011: 45%

2012: 39%

Kobe:

2007: 42%

2008: 38%

2009: 42%

2010: 41%

2011: 38%

2012: 41%

Kobe and Lebron are relatively even, while Wade is no where near close.

And if you look at the attempts stats, Kobe takes 1-2 more shots a game from 16-23 feet than those two, and Bron and Wade take more 2-3 shots around the rim than Kobe. Basically, you were talking out your behind saying Kobe converts more put backs and shots around the baskets, etc.

Those numbers are from www.hoopdata.com, but they are also listed on basketball reference. I wish those numbers were around before 2007.

I would still take Kobe's mid range game over both of those guys, but Bron has a slightly higher percentage while Wade isnt even close. So this stuff about Wade being a better shooter than Kobe is just incorrect. Its not true and has never been true.

You're a Kobe fan. I get it. Kobe fans are not rational about the guy. I'd be glad to talk stats with you, but you are the one who rarely acknowledges them, and you are the one who completely writes off PER and WS. The stats demonstrate Kobe is an inefficient, ball-hogging chucker. That confirms what the eye of any objective observer has seen his entire career.

the nerve of you to say that I am irrational, yet you have dismissed Kobe winning 5 NBA titles and saying nonsense about Wade being a better shooter.. I am the irrational one when you its clear as day you dislike Kobe. You even tried to argue that Iverson was as good as dude. You tried to suggest Kobe's points come from put back and dunks. You seem to be watching a different Kobe Bryant and NBA than everyone else, yet you have the nerve to call me irrational.

And if Smush Parker is looking off one of the best players in NBA history on offense, then thats the guy who is a bad teammate.

---------- Post added October-12th-2012 at 04:20 PM ----------

iirc, Parker was dissing Phil Jackson that 2006-7 season too about his coaching. Again, SMUSH PARKER!

[CrypticVillain]

Man, I am not going through this D-Wade/Kobe argument right now. Can we talk about something else???

How about the Warriors? Does anybody think they will play better during Mark Jackson's 2nd year?

I think their projected lineup is:

Jack

Curry

Barnes

Lee

Bogut

If healthy, that could win about 35-41 games.

I pulled that out of nowhere,I just wanted to talk about anything else. But they look like a solid team.

[skinfan2k]

did you forget about klay thompson?

there team is 9 deep easily.

pg- curry

sg- Thompson

sf- rush

pf- david lee

c- bogut

bench: richard jefferson, barnes, landry, bierdins, jack

i think its the best 10 man roster in the nBA

[Predicto]

did you forget about klay thompson?

there team is 9 deep easily.

pg- curry

sg- Thompson

sf- rush

pf- david lee

c- bogut

bench: richard jefferson, barnes, landry, bierdins, jack

i think its the best 10 man roster in the nBA

It probably is. Unfortunately, 7 man rosters win games. Having our 9th man be better than your 9th man doesn't make up for the starting lineup's lack of a superstar

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Man, I am not going through this D-Wade/Kobe argument right now. Can we talk about something else???

How about the Warriors? Does anybody think they will play better during Mark Jackson's 2nd year?

I think their projected lineup is:

Jack

Curry

Barnes

Lee

Bogut

If healthy, that could win about 35-41 games.

I pulled that out of nowhere,I just wanted to talk about anything else. But they look like a solid team.

I apologize, its just that using Smush Parker's account for anything is nonsensical.

I dont like Mark Jackson as a coach. Just not a fan of his at all. Im not that big of a fan of Barnes either, and Curry has Mr. Glass ankles.

Saying that, the Pacific division is not that good after the Lakers and Clippers, so it is definitely possible for them to win 35 games.

I dont Jack will start for them, they will probably use Curry at the point guard.

[Mr. Sinister]

I seriously wonder that if Kobe shot some old lady on a crowded street, we'd all just chalk it up to his "Ruthless Assassin!" persona, and praise his skillset/accolades/accomplishments even more...

The Lakers may very well be in for another magical season, but there are going to be a few serious dustups along the way, and that may be putting it mildly.Dwight/Nash can say all the right things now, but let's see how they react once the bullets start flying and you have "The Black Mamba" in your face, accosting you on the court, and taking thinly veiled (and sometimes not so veiled) shots at you in the media. With Dwights apparent high level of sensitivity, I doubt that things will go over well, and that he'll put ink to paper without hesitation after the season is over, and "Carry On The Laker Legacy..."

[CrypticVillain]

did you forget about klay thompson?

there team is 9 deep easily.

pg- curry

sg- Thompson

sf- rush

pf- david lee

c- bogut

bench: richard jefferson, barnes, landry, bierdins, jack

i think its the best 10 man roster in the nBA

I did forget about Thompson. I thought he went to Portland for some reason.

---------- Post added October-13th-2012 at 01:00 PM ----------

I seriously wonder that if Kobe shot some old lady on a crowded street, we'd all just chalk it up to his "Ruthless Assassin!" persona, and praise his skillset/accolades/accomplishments even more...

[Going Commando]

It probably is. Unfortunately, 7 man rosters win games. Having our 9th man be better than your 9th man doesn't make up for the starting lineup's lack of a superstar

I'd say 8 man rather than 7. Your 8th guy can be an important contributor. Starting five plus you need a good backup guard who is either a spark plug scorer, specialty shooter, or a good backup PG who can run the offense. You need a third big that can play big minutes because of the taxing nature of the position. And then you need a wing who can be a stopper.

---------- Post added October-13th-2012 at 05:46 PM ----------

i think its the best 10 man roster in the nBA

Not enough defense though. Bogut is the only defensive presence whatsoever, and he gets hurt.

And Predicto is right, it's lacking some star power. Ellis was probably the closest thing they had to a star because he was a guy who could make his own offense against a set defense.

It's got the be the best shooting team in the NBA though, hands down. That'll give them a chance against anybody in the NBA each night, but they'll also get blown out when their jumpers aren't falling. They are going to have to learn to feed Bogut and Lee down low as a major part of the offense, slow games down, and learn to grind it out with the tough teams.

It's a pretty marvelous collection of shooters though. They could go small whenever they want and play Barnes, Rush, Curry, and Thompson together. That would be such a pain to cover. IDavid Lee can be a stretchy big too. f they had any kind of slasher to pair with those four, the guy would just make hay with all the space he would have.

I think the Spurs are still one of the deepest teams in the league. They've got a nice mix of everything, but the fact they don't have a legit big man after Duncan is worrisome.

I think the Mavs have a really good team top to bottom. People are sleeping on them. I think the team is as good as the one that won the Championship. Collison, Kaman, and Brand were good pickups, and they might have found something nice in Mayo. They've got balance and the look of a 55+ win team.

The Rockets have tons of depth but no star power. The Hornets actually have a surprisingly good team and I think they've got a good shot at breaking .500. The Clippers are loaded and have good players top to bottom. The Nuggets are still deep.

The West will be competitive this year. Way more good teams in the West than the East.

I'm curious to see if Kevin Love's team can make the leap into the playoffs this year. If the dude is a true superstar, then he's got to start winning.

---------- Post added October-13th-2012 at 06:00 PM ----------

The Lakers may very well be in for another magical season, but there are going to be a few serious dustups along the way, and that may be putting it mildly.Dwight/Nash can say all the right things now, but let's see how they react once the bullets start flying and you have "The Black Mamba" in your face, accosting you on the court, and taking thinly veiled (and sometimes not so veiled) shots at you in the media. With Dwights apparent high level of sensitivity, I doubt that things will go over well, and that he'll put ink to paper without hesitation after the season is over, and "Carry On The Laker Legacy..."

I'm curious to how this is going to play out too. Not so much about the off court stuff, I want to see how LA makes it work on the court. You know everyone is going to take a dip in shots/scoring, but you also know Kobe will sacrafice the least. I wonder what it's going to be like when Nash has to give up the ball to Kobe so much, when Kobe keeps jacking contested shots while Dwight and Nash are open. Those guys are used to being the alphas on their teams and Kobe has already made it clear that won't be the case any more.

I don't think Dwight ever wanted to play with Kobe, and I'm interested to see how much he enjoys it this season. If he hates it, he won't be going back. I also think there is a reason why CP3 won't do an extension with the Clippers yet, and I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility you see him and Dwight team up somewhere totally unexpected this offseason.

If it's just about winning championships long term, Dwight's clear choice is Chicago.

[Mr. Sinister]

^Yeah, I almost died laughing when I saw Kobe say something along the lines of "I want to teach Dwight everything, so that when I leave here, this organization can keep on rolling like I never left," and I'm like dude, where's the extension? Do you not know who you're dealing with? Dwight is as schizophrenic as they come.

LA is a great spot no doubt (at least while Kobe's still there), but it's not like he can't go to another city and be just as successful, without the pressure/crosshairs that will surely be on him once it's his team, and especially since he wasn't 100% all in to begin with. I don't think he's ready for that. And if things get even a little testy, I can see him bolting, completing one of the greatest one night stands in sports history. Just imagine the backlash Kobe would get, because we all know he'd be labeled the scapegoat if that happens

[Going Commando]

^Yeah, I almost died laughing when I saw Kobe say something along the lines of "I want to teach Dwight everything, so that when I leave here, this organization can keep on rolling like I never left," and I'm like dude, where's the extension? Do you not know who you're dealing with? Dwight is as schizophrenic as they come.

LA is a great spot no doubt (at least while Kobe's still there), but it's not like he can't go to another city and be just as successful, without the pressure/crosshairs that will surely be on him once it's his team, and especially since he wasn't 100% all in to begin with. I don't think he's ready for that. And if things get even a little testy, I can see him bolting, completing one of the greatest one night stands in sports history. Just imagine the backlash Kobe would get, because we all know he'd be labeled the scapegoat if that happens

I'm not sure Kobe will ever be the scapegoat no matter what he does.

If Dwight left the media would have a frenzy on first Dwight, then Kupchak.

No matter what happens this year, Dwight will probably get little credit for the good and all of the blame for the bad.

[Shabby]

Damn some people are riding Kobe hard this year lol. We all know if the thunder knock the lakers out, or anyone knocks them out of the playoffs, no one will blame kobe. thats a fact.

That being said, i cant wait for the season to start. Im curious to see how KD bounces back after the finals loss.

[Mr. Sinister]

The Nets may have some of the most generic/conservative uni's I've ever seen. Not bad, not bad at all... just generic. Kind of lets you know it isn' tthe 90's anymore, with crazy animals/dinosaurs all over the jerseys, and wacky colors/stripes. If the Spurs, and a few other teams didn't wear black already, I'd have thought more highly of them. But like I said, not bad.

Also, is it reasonable to expect that some New Jersey Nets fans still might follow/cheer for the team, even though they split? I mean it's not like they moved 1,000 miles away, and it's not like they weren't based in New York before, and had fans that still 100% considered themselves New Yorkers when they moved to Jersey. I wonder how that works.

[RonArtest15]

This guy Kobe. SMH.

This was in reference to speaking about A-Rod's problems.

"We're different," Bryant said. "But you're talking about, 'He's one of the best to ever play.' I think really the difference is, sometimes he forgets he's the best. ... Where, I don't."

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8514604/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offers-pep-talk-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

And FWIW...Kobe is not the "best"...never has, never will. And A-Rod? All I have to say is *

[Going Commando]

The Nets may have some of the most generic/conservative uni's I've ever seen. Not bad, not bad at all... just generic. Kind of lets you know it isn' tthe 90's anymore, with crazy animals/dinosaurs all over the jerseys, and wacky colors/stripes. If the Spurs, and a few other teams didn't wear black already, I'd have thought more highly of them. But like I said, not bad.

Also, is it reasonable to expect that some New Jersey Nets fans still might follow/cheer for the team, even though they split? I mean it's not like they moved 1,000 miles away, and it's not like they weren't based in New York before, and had fans that still 100% considered themselves New Yorkers when they moved to Jersey. I wonder how that works.

I don't really like the jerseys. Like you said, they are just so plain. They look amateurish. Like an AAU team or something. So does the logo too BTW. It looks like it was made in MS Paint.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

This guy Kobe. SMH.

This was in reference to speaking about A-Rod's problems.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8514604/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offers-pep-talk-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

And FWIW...Kobe is not the "best"...never has, never will. And A-Rod? All I have to say is *

good grief, all he is talking about is athletic arrogance.

Its what Lebron struggled with for years too. If you are an athlete at that level, I hope you believe you are the best or else you are wasting your time.

[Sticksboi05]

Well, Kobe isn't the best player ever or even top 5 and A-Rod statistically will be when he's done or is now but he's a cheater so it doesn't really count...so....yeah.

[Going Commando]

This guy Kobe. SMH.

This was in reference to speaking about A-Rod's problems.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8514604/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offers-pep-talk-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

And FWIW...Kobe is not the "best"...never has, never will. And A-Rod? All I have to say is *

Yeah.

Kobe's been talking a lot of **** this offseason. Any one instance doesn't seem out of the norm for him, but he's been doing it a lot. Is he afraid his relevance might be fading? Tired of hearing about how LeBron is better? Afraid people will start thinking of the Lakers as Dwight's team? Or Nash's team?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

at everyone intentionally missing his point to flex their Kobe hate.

[DCranon21]

Wait a minute. I don't post in the thread for about a week, and what's up with bringing up Smush Parker Let me tell you about good ole Smush and his days as a Laker. He played PG, and outside of Westbrook, GP, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, or any PG who can shoot, his percentage was terrible. When he arrived on the Lakers squad(he replaced Chucky Atkins :doh:), he wanted to shoot, and build houses out in LA. I have the ticket, and watched majority of the Laker games if I don't fall asleep, and this dude was terrible shooting the rock. Granted Kobe shoots 25-35 times a game, he shot 20 times and remember him making like 6. SQ, I know you don't like Kobe, but during that time for LA, he had to shoot. No one outside of Lamar, and a young Bynum was even valuable to be on the court at that time. Luke Walton was so/so. But take a look at that 2005-06 starting lineup. I think Chris Mihm and Brian Cook was on that team.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Wait a minute. I don't post in the thread for about a week, and what's up with bringing up Smush Parker Let me tell you about good ole Smush and his days as a Laker. He played PG, and outside of Westbrook, GP, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, or any PG who can shoot, his percentage was terrible. When he arrived on the Lakers squad(he replaced Chucky Atkins :doh:), he wanted to shoot, and build houses out in LA. I have the ticket, and watched majority of the Laker games if I don't fall asleep, and this dude was terrible shooting the rock. Granted Kobe shoots 25-35 times a game, he shot 20 times and remember him making like 6. SQ, I know you don't like Kobe, but during that time for LA, he had to shoot. No one outside of Lamar, and a young Bynum was even valuable to be on the court at that time. Luke Walton was so/so. But take a look at that 2005-06 starting lineup. I think Chris Mihm and Brian Cook was on that team.

no, you have it wrong. Kobe is supposed to pass it to a young Bynum who was tripping over his own feet, and Luke Walton, who is Luke Walton. Chris Mihm could have been an amazing player if Kobe just passed him the ball more. And of course Kwame! If Kobe passed him the ball, one day he would have been able to catch a ball despite his small hands.

The greatness of Kobe is that those teams still rated in the top 10 in offense efficiency ratings both years despite all being awful.

[Going Commando]

Wait a minute. I don't post in the thread for about a week, and what's up with bringing up Smush Parker Let me tell you about good ole Smush and his days as a Laker. He played PG, and outside of Westbrook, GP, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, or any PG who can shoot, his percentage was terrible. When he arrived on the Lakers squad(he replaced Chucky Atkins :doh:), he wanted to shoot, and build houses out in LA. I have the ticket, and watched majority of the Laker games if I don't fall asleep, and this dude was terrible shooting the rock. Granted Kobe shoots 25-35 times a game, he shot 20 times and remember him making like 6. SQ, I know you don't like Kobe, but during that time for LA, he had to shoot. No one outside of Lamar, and a young Bynum was even valuable to be on the court at that time. Luke Walton was so/so. But take a look at that 2005-06 starting lineup. I think Chris Mihm and Brian Cook was on that team.

It's more the ridiculous defense from Kobe's fans that I dislike. It's absolutely ruined the conversation about Kobe.

I think I see him for what he is: a ****ty teammate and inefficient player. Anyone who argues the opposite is completely blind IMO.

Nevermind the fact Kobe never trusts any of his teammates and would rather shoot a crappy contested shot against a double team than pass to an open teammate, leading to an endless stream of bad shooting nights that people never seem to remember. Though they do show up in his poor career shooting percentage.

Check out this bit of info from a good article on grantland about the situation:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8511976/me-smush-happens-rafe-bartholomew-childhood-teammate-becomes-nba-player-becomes-kobe-bryant-enemy#footnote1

But Smush is right. Kobe's record as a teammate is not a pretty one, and it grows out of a mind-set that Smush described on the podcast: "Basketball is a team sport … It's not tennis or golf, it is a team sport. When you are the star of the team, you have to make your teammates feel comfortable. You have to make them feel welcome. And he did not do that at all."

Not only did he make them feel unwelcome, but over the years Kobe has joyfully attacked lesser teammates and treated fellow Lakers stars like rivals instead of allies. There's the Smush smear campaign, the recent clowning of Jodie Meeks, and the way Kobe mocked DJ Mbenga's English on Jimmy Kimmel Live after the 2010 championship. Kobe also drove Shaq out of town and, in the midst of Kobe's 2003 rape trial, outed Shaq's marital infidelities. Kobe has publicly questioned nearly every basketball decision-gone-wrong that Pau Gasol has made in a Lakers jersey, including making last year's "Pau's got to be more assertive" speech after the Lakers fell into a 3-1 series hole against the Thunder.

Kobe's actions are the actions of a horrible teammate plain and simple. It's why Kobe can't win unless he is surrounded by completely superior talent. Kobe's teams are never greater than the sum of their parts while he is the man. It's like the exact opposite of LeBron and Nash and Garnett and Dirk.

Jordan was a tremendous dick, just like Kobe. But the difference is Jordan was a good teammate, an unselfish player, and he trusted his teammates and coaxed the absolute most from his teams. Jordan would spend the first quarter two of a game passing the ball and not shooting to get his guys into it before taking over. Kobe is not that guy.

[DCranon21]

no, you have it wrong. Kobe is supposed to pass it to a young Bynum who was tripping over his own feet, and Luke Walton, who is Luke Walton. Chris Mihm could have been an amazing player if Kobe just passed him the ball more. And of course Kwame! If Kobe passed him the ball, one day he would have been able to catch a ball despite his small hands.

The greatness of Kobe is that those teams still rated in the top 10 in offense efficiency ratings both years despite all being awful.

Forgot Kwame was even on that team That's how bad that team was. The Wizards fleeced the Lakers in that trade. Then the Lakers fleeced the Grizzlies 2-3 years later.

[DCranon21]

Craig Sager is already in mid-season form with his suits on TBS for baseball

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CVAJBIwTA

[Going Commando]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8516740/kevin-love-minnesota-timberwolves-star-6-8-weeks-broken-hand

Kevin Love out 6-8 weeks with broken hand.

Broke two of the metacarpal bones in his shooting hand.

This really blows. I really wanted to see him and Minnesota take the next step this season. And it blows for fantasy. Love was the #3 pick in most formats, #1 for both PFs and Cs. Now where do you take him? It was his shooting hand. Second round? Third round? Can you afford to take a player that high if he gives you nothing the first month and a half of the season, then my be slow coming back? A lot of questions now.

Kevin Love needs to come play for the Wizards like his dad. Come play with John Wall and Brad Beal. The fan base would have completely embraced him and John would have probably got him scoring 35 ppg here. Why oh why did he sign that extension?