Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[mjah]

It would. Letting States decide things like this is a great idea.

But not corporate political spending, right? That has to be Federal?

Of course.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

V the K ‏@VtheK

New Nickname "The Dread Justice Roberts." #ObamaCare

hahaha

---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 02:38 PM ----------

Against an incumbent.

This (and every election with an incumbent) was always going to be a referendum on Obama.

I think all of the nominees last term had pretty good specifics on what they would do on healthcare.

Honestly, if Obama can't crush Romney in six months for not giving specifics on what his healthcare law would be, then he is the worst campaigner ever. And he's not that.

[Wrong Direction]

A practical implication of the Medicaid ruling.

1. SCOTUS rules states can opt out of Medicaid expansion.

2. Many conservative states, or broke Democrat states, opt out of Medicaid expansion, meaning people with earnings between poverty line and like $80k/year (whatever the number) don't have access to free health insurance.

3. Those people are least able to afford what is shaping up to be expensive plans in the state exchange.

4. Those people will be hit with the mandate tax, which is thousands of dollars.

5. The people who need the assistance the most go without health insurance.

How this will force people to lose their existing insurance.

1. ACA in essence gives employers the option of providing healthcare or paying a tax.

2. The tax is less than the cost of insurance.

3. The tax is easier to pay than an insurance program is to negotiate, account for and maintain.

4. Employers choose to drop their coverage and just pay a tax into the system.

5. Many millions lose the option of coverage through their employer, and are pushed onto the government doles.

This law is the beginning of end of most of the employer insurance market, if unchanged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for many reasons, but it is the explanation some here are looking for as to why R's are saying this law will make them lose their coverage. It's true.

[Kilmer17]

The end of employer based insurance began long before this ruling.

All this did was push it down the road a bit faster.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

A practical implication of the Medicaid ruling.

1. SCOTUS rules states can opt out of Medicaid expansion.

2. Many conservative states, or broke Democrat states, opt out of Medicaid expansion, meaning people with earnings between poverty line and like $80k/year (whatever the number) don't have access to free health insurance.

3. Those people are least able to afford what is shaping up to be expensive plans in the state exchange.

4. Those people will be hit with the mandate tax, which is thousands of dollars.

5. The people who need the assistance the most go without health insurance.

How this will force people to lose their existing insurance.

1. ACA in essence gives employers the option of providing healthcare or paying a tax.

2. The tax is less than the cost of insurance.

3. The tax is easier to pay than an insurance program is to negotiate, account for and maintain.

4. Employers choose to drop their coverage and just pay a tax into the system.

5. Many millions lose the option of coverage through their employer, and are pushed onto the government doles.

This law is the beginning of end of most of the employer insurance market, if unchanged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for many reasons, but it is the explanation some here are looking for as to why R's are saying this law will make them lose their coverage. It's true.

You're forgetting that people WANT to have insurance, whether private or public. People aren't going to drop insurance merely because the tax is cheaper. And if I, owner of a small business, dropped insurance coverage tomorrow at least three of my employees would quit. There is still a supply and demand market that you are not counting on.

In regards to Medicaid, in a like fashion people get to vote people into office and those that are going to forego all medicaid funding are going to lose a lot of votes. So, its not as clear as you say in either case.

One more thing, what's so great about the employer based insurance model? Didn't it get us into this mess in the first place?

Edited June 28, 2012 by Tulane Skins Fan

[Ellis]

This law is the beginning of end of most of the employer insurance market, if unchanged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for many reasons, but it is the explanation some here are looking for as to why R's are saying this law will make them lose their coverage. It's true.

or... the current insurance companies will have to find a way to compete with the government by lowering premiums, thus enticing companies NOT to opt out and take the tax hit.

[LadySkinsFan]

I say we have the public option and get employers out of the healthcare insurance business. Then people can have insurance, non-profit, sliding scale premiums, insurance coverage stays if you change jobs and so on.

[Riggo-toni]

The end of employer based insurance began long before this ruling.

All this did was push it down the road a bit faster.

Let's hope so. Better still, let's hope for an end to state regulation of health insurance. A single set of federal guidelines which includes standardized forms and people being able to buy their own insurance across state lines would be the best things to stimulate competition.

[Stadium-Armory]

The facts, and Romney's history in Massachusetts are only relevant to those paying attention. To those who accept spoon fed talking points, its easy to use this as a basis for positioning the election as a referendum on Americanism vs. Socialism. Easy as pie.

[AsburySkinsFan]

LoL....:rotflmao:......Justice Roberts the swing vote......:rotflmao:.....LoL!!!!!!

[Heisenberg]

Thank you, SCOTUS. This Obamacare ruling fires up the troops as America’s eyes are opened! Thank God.

This proves to be such an unsettling time in America as we undergo the fundamental transformation that Barack Obama promised he would do to us if elected. Obamacare was dealt in deception and confusion by flooding the public with an overwhelming amount of conflicting “rationale” via thousands of pages of unread legislative detail, which is the radical left’s M.O. Obama promised the American people this wasn’t a tax and that he’d never raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000. We now see that this is the largest tax increase in history. It will slam every business owner and every one of the 50% of Americans who currently pay their taxes. The other 50% are being deceived if they think they’re going to get a free ride – because Medicaid is broke. Recipients of Obama’s “free health care” will have fewer choices and less accessibility. Trust me – this much more expensive health care WILL be rationed; to claim otherwise defies all economic and common sense.

We will not retreat on this. A newly elected legislative branch is key to defending our Republic and fundamentally restoring all that is good in America.

SCOTUS now rules this is a tax? Well, Congress has the ability to create taxes – and also has the ability to rescind them. Upon their return from the July recess, Congress should act immediately to repeal this terrible new tax on the American people, and indeed they must repeal all of Obamacare. This is the most brazen and sweeping new tax and government overreach imposed on us. We the People did not ask for this tax, we do not want this tax, and we can’t afford this tax. This is not an answer to America’s health care challenges.

It’s time, again, for patriotic Americans to rise up to protest this obvious infringement on our economic and personal freedom. November is just around the corner. Today, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Obamacare. In November, We the People will issue ours.

- Sarah Palin

[Fergasun]

I'm amazed by this decision. No one expected John Roberts to cast the deciding vote for Obamacare. Kudos to him! I completely agree that Congress can do much more under the taxing + spending clause than the commerce clause. Amazing!

Wish I had more time to read through; it looks like its the conservatives using the "Congress intended this..." slippery slope rather than liberals (who typically do it).

I haven't even seen Thomas' dissent but I bet he busts everyone's chops in his own unique way.

[JMS]

I say we have the public option and get employers out of the healthcare insurance business. Then people can have insurance, non-profit, sliding scale premiums, insurance coverage stays if you change jobs and so on.

Also if we follow one of the european models we save about 50% of the per capita costs on healthcare, while covering every american, and doctors will make house calls again!!

[Fergasun]

JMU Alum,

So all those other taxes that are taken out of people's paychecks don't count?

edit: Oops! That's what Sarah Palin said... thought that was your independently thought out post.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Fergasun

[Heisenberg]

JMU Alum,

So all those other taxes that are taken out of people's paychecks don't count?

I was just posting what Sarah Palin had to say about it. I definitely don't endorse the message.

[No Excuses]

Thank you, SCOTUS. This Obamacare ruling fires up the troops as America’s eyes are opened! Thank God.

This proves to be such an unsettling time in America as we undergo the fundamental transformation that Barack Obama promised he would do to us if elected. Obamacare was dealt in deception and confusion by flooding the public with an overwhelming amount of conflicting “rationale” via thousands of pages of unread legislative detail, which is the radical left’s M.O. Obama promised the American people this wasn’t a tax and that he’d never raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000. We now see that this is the largest tax increase in history. It will slam every business owner and every one of the 50% of Americans who currently pay their taxes. The other 50% are being deceived if they think they’re going to get a free ride – because Medicaid is broke. Recipients of Obama’s “free health care” will have fewer choices and less accessibility. Trust me – this much more expensive health care WILL be rationed; to claim otherwise defies all economic and common sense.

We will not retreat on this. A newly elected legislative branch is key to defending our Republic and fundamentally restoring all that is good in America.

SCOTUS now rules this is a tax? Well, Congress has the ability to create taxes – and also has the ability to rescind them. Upon their return from the July recess, Congress should act immediately to repeal this terrible new tax on the American people, and indeed they must repeal all of Obamacare. This is the most brazen and sweeping new tax and government overreach imposed on us. We the People did not ask for this tax, we do not want this tax, and we can’t afford this tax. This is not an answer to America’s health care challenges.

It’s time, again, for patriotic Americans to rise up to protest this obvious infringement on our economic and personal freedom. November is just around the corner. Today, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Obamacare. In November, We the People will issue ours.

- Sarah Palin

That entire piece read like it was written by a totalitarian which isn't surprising for the modern GOP.

[HBnotBlades]

How this will force people to lose their existing insurance.

1. ACA in essence gives employers the option of providing healthcare or paying a tax.

2. The tax is less than the cost of insurance.

3. The tax is easier to pay than an insurance program is to negotiate, account for and maintain.

4. Employers choose to drop their coverage and just pay a tax into the system.

5. Many millions lose the option of coverage through their employer, and are pushed onto the government doles.

This law is the beginning of end of most of the employer insurance market, if unchanged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for many reasons, but it is the explanation some here are looking for as to why R's are saying this law will make them lose their coverage. It's true.

Wait a second, why would a company who already provides insurance drop their insurance plan once the tax was in place? If they were that concerned with saving money they would have already dropped their insurance plan when there was no tax to pay for doing so, like right now.

[Koolblue13]

I was just posting what Sarah Palin had to say about it. I definitely don't endorse the message.

Thanks for posting that, she is always entertaining.

[No Excuses]

So all those other taxes that are taken out of people's paychecks don't count?

They just don't fit the narrative.

Palin knows that she's talking out of her ass. Her base doesn't. :doh:

[Stadium-Armory]

I tell you, all these people crying about liberty, and constitutional conservatism, and the republic and all this business about small government.. are the same people who want to expand the role of government in your bedroom and at the alter. If there were some consistency, I could listen...

[Fergasun]

I see that.

Thomas' own opinion (didn't realized he joined the other dissent when I posted) merely stated his view on the commerce clause and his disapproval of its expansion (its like a two-pager).

When I read these opinions I'm always struck how after reading both sides I'm shaking my head saying "yes, that makes sense!" to both sides.

What's ironic to me is the phrase "elections have consequences" and how that has come about in this case. One of the consequences of Republican control of the government during the Bush terms was their ability to nominate Roberts. One of the consequences of the 2008 election was Obamacare... I'm still shocked that Roberts provided the 5th vote!

[Corcaigh]

Wait a second, why would a company who already provides insurance drop their insurance plan once the tax was in place? If they were that concerned with saving money they would have already dropped their insurance plan when there was no tax to pay for doing so, like right now.

Yeah - I really don't understand the argument that this will encourage employers to drop insurance cover. It would seem the opposite.

Rather than face a fine, companies can make a more attractive remuneration package to previously uninsured employees and part of the cost would be what they would have been fined anyway.

I'm not saying forcing employers to provide coverage is a good idea, but I don't get the argument that employers will be more likely to drop coverage.

[Baculus]

The expected right wing hyperbolic reaction to this decision is astounding, but I do have a bit of schadenfreude watching their heads exploded. Heh.

To them, supposedly America has "ended" over health care reform. Apparently conservatives don't have much faith in this nation.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Baculus

[JMS]

To those who accept spoon fed talking points, its easy to use this as a basis for positioning the election as a referendum on Americanism vs. Socialism. Easy as pie.

If at this late date you think Obama is a liberal much less a socialist, you really aren't subject to reality and thus should not effect the debate at all. You are going to twitch when they poke the vodoo doll and vote GOP and go back to your dark damp hole in the ground and lement some makebelieve occurance...

The dirty little secret nobody is taliking about is liberals in the democratic party are pretty unhappy with Obama. He's basically a competent Bush. Don't get me wrong that's better than the incompetent Bush, But it still makes him pragmatic and right leaning guy as head of a centrist left leaning party. The flip side to this is Mitt Romney who first ran for Senator in Ma to the left of Ted Kennedy, and was a pro choice, pro gay rights governor of one of the most liberal states (common wealth) in the uniion. A left of center moderate guy at the head of the right wing party.

It seems to me if you voted on these guys records, Mitt makes a stronger Democratic case and Obama makes a better Republican case....

Which is why I say Americans today don't vote based upon the candidates. This election cycle for most Americans is purely driven by their distrust and loathing for the other party.

[Baculus]

Thank you, SCOTUS. This Obamacare ruling fires up the troops as America’s eyes are opened! Thank God.

This proves to be such an unsettling time in America as we undergo the fundamental transformation that Barack Obama promised he would do to us if elected. Obamacare was dealt in deception and confusion by flooding the public with an overwhelming amount of conflicting “rationale” via thousands of pages of unread legislative detail, which is the radical left’s M.O. Obama promised the American people this wasn’t a tax and that he’d never raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000. We now see that this is the largest tax increase in history. It will slam every business owner and every one of the 50% of Americans who currently pay their taxes. The other 50% are being deceived if they think they’re going to get a free ride – because Medicaid is broke. Recipients of Obama’s “free health care” will have fewer choices and less accessibility. Trust me – this much more expensive health care WILL be rationed; to claim otherwise defies all economic and common sense.

We will not retreat on this. A newly elected legislative branch is key to defending our Republic and fundamentally restoring all that is good in America.

SCOTUS now rules this is a tax? Well, Congress has the ability to create taxes – and also has the ability to rescind them. Upon their return from the July recess, Congress should act immediately to repeal this terrible new tax on the American people, and indeed they must repeal all of Obamacare. This is the most brazen and sweeping new tax and government overreach imposed on us. We the People did not ask for this tax, we do not want this tax, and we can’t afford this tax. This is not an answer to America’s health care challenges.

It’s time, again, for patriotic Americans to rise up to protest this obvious infringement on our economic and personal freedom. November is just around the corner. Today, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Obamacare. In November, We the People will issue ours.

- Sarah Palin

Palin represents the irrational absurdity of the Right.

---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 07:44 PM ----------

The facts, and Romney's history in Massachusetts are only relevant to those paying attention. To those who accept spoon fed talking points, its easy to use this as a basis for positioning the election as a referendum on Americanism vs. Socialism. Easy as pie.

The ACA, which is framed within the free market, has nothing to do with socialism, and mashing together talking points does not create a convincing argument. I mean, after all, WHAT is "Americanism"?

I guess we're going to have to hear months more of empty, bumper-sticker sloganeering until the election, at the least.