Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[TheGoodBits]

18 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

I've been a single payor "supporter" (for lack of a better word) and that's obviously it's major flaw.  If all health care is covered, I want a tummy tuck for me and a boob job for my wife.  Who decides what is and what is not covered?

 

The death panels, duh.

 

[visionary]

 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, gbear said:

Funny thing is what you are suggesting is closer to what Tsongas and that Hillary lady were proposing in the 90's for which she is demonized to this day. He might have had a chance to be demonized as well, but he...well...he died.  They basically took an approach of we have x dollars which means we can afford to cover a,b, and c.  If you want D, we aren't saying it is no good.  We are simply saying covering it will not grant as many quality life years as a, b, or c.  So you can purchase insurance for D if you want.  It just won't be the insurance we believe all Americans are entitled to have.  The premise was basically greatest good for the greatest number possible using x dollars.

 

That failure became a starting point for the death panel misnomers that plagued the affordable care act decades later when they tried to cover doctors having end of life care discussions with patients.  Isn't it amazing how fear and slogans can slant a populations perspective for decades?  Sorry, I am feeling a bit jaded on the impact of politics on our healthcare, and yet it seems politics is a battlefield on which our fight must be carried.

 

That's rather the point I was trying to make.  (And thanks for responding to a question that I thought was rather thought-provoking, and discussion worthy, and then got ignored.)  

 

I think that part of the reason health care is so expensive, is because it legitimately costs that much.  (And therefore, the only way you're going to make it cost less, is to make some tough decisions.)  

 

That part of the problem (if you agree that it is a problem.  The argument could me made that it isn't.)  is the approach that you just have to to anything that might possibly affect Uncle Joe.  (After all, we are talking about somebody's very life.)  

 

How much would car insurance cost, if we had the attitude that somebody has to pay for anything, whatever it takes, to keep old cars running until it is physically impossible to do so?  

 

I do think that maybe there ought to be a realization that this attitude absolutely is signing us up for some really huge costs.  

 

I could see arguments that yes, it's going to cost a bunch, but we ought to choose to pay it.  

 

But I think that, if nothing else, the Obamacare requirement that 80% of insurance premiums must be spent on actual health care, demonstrates that a big reason why health care is so expensive is because it really does cost that much.  

 

Yeah, greedy health insurance companies and their thirst for profit might be contributing a little to health care costs.  But most of the money actually is getting spent on actual health care, and we either need to suck it up and pay it, or start choosing which things we aren't going to pay for.  

 

 

---

 

It's a really touchy subject.  (For completely understandable reasons.)  

 

Heck, my own opinion, dealing strictly with my own life, is probably confused, contradictory, and not really clear.  And it's one which I absolutely would not like to see society be imposing on other people's lives.  

 

Me, if there were some kind of deal similar to an organ donor's card, where I could say that "If I'm ever facing being kept in a nursing home without a clear path to recovery, then I want somebody to assist me with committing suicide, even if I'm completely conscious and lucid, simply to avoid being a financial burden, if nothing else.", then I'd fill it out, right now, with no hesitation whatsoever. 

 

Obviously, I don't want to see society making that decision for other people, though.  But I do think that, as a society, we need to have the option on the table, at least.  I think that refusing to have the conversation is costing us.  (And not just in financial ways.)    

[LadySkinsFan]

How come insurance companies have billions in profit even taking into account the outrageous executive salaries? 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

@Larry it sounds like you are interested in having a discussion regarding where to draw the line on covered healthcare.  I tried to have that conversation in here a few times but it didn't go well.  I was either accused of wanting death panels or free fake tits for everyone depending on the political persuasion of the person responding.  If you can get that discussion going, I would be interested.

 

problem is there is too much emotion in it.  The discussion won't go well.  And that explains why the problem won't get fixed.  I wish you well in your endeavor.

[PeterMP]

39 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

@Larry it sounds like you are interested in having a discussion regarding where to draw the line on covered healthcare.  I tried to have that conversation in here a few times but it didn't go well.  I was either accused of wanting death panels or free fake tits for everyone depending on the political persuasion of the person responding.  If you can get that discussion going, I would be interested.

 

problem is there is too much emotion in it.  The discussion won't go well.  And that explains why the problem won't get fixed.  I wish you well in your endeavor.

 

This approach isn't uncommon.

 

NHS is the English organization that decides what gets covered.  Do a google search of NHS denies coverage, and you'll get a bunch of hits.

 

(and than about 10% of the English have private insurance on top of the government healthcare).

 

(Though in the context of Larry's statement, I think we have the same thing with Medicare.  They certainly deny coverage.  I don't if maybe Larry is arguing that they should deny more.)

[LadySkinsFan]

I'm on Medicare and have supplemented insurance to cover things Medicare doesn't, like I don't pay a deductible or copays. So far I've been to the doctor twice since being on Medicare. I have coverage for the first time in years. 

 

If Trump kills Medicare, I will be without again because Social Security is not as much as I used to earn, and if they cut Social Security I'm screwed.  It will mean death. 

 

But what do they care, they don't pay anything, us taxpayers pay for them. Asses.

[TheGreatBuzz]

33 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

This approach isn't uncommon.

 

NHS is the English organization that decides what gets covered.  Do a google search of NHS denies coverage, and you'll get a bunch of hits.

 

(and than about 10% of the English have private insurance on top of the government healthcare).

 

(Though in the context of Larry's statement, I think we have the same thing with Medicare.  They certainly deny coverage.  I don't if maybe Larry is arguing that they should deny more.)

Well my thought wasn't to look at what is covered elsewhere but what SHOULD be covered here.  That gets to be a heated discussion rather quickly.

[gbear]

I am in an odd situation. I have supported and still do support a utilitarian approach of "do the greatest good for the greatest number."  I support this even though if implemented I would probably not get the MS treatments I have already gotten (more than a million dollars worth and counting). I think I would still support this if it were only me.

 

However, with the four kids my wife and I have taken into our home each having received roughly a million dollars worth of medical services and care, I am thankful society has valued our wellbeing so highly. Still at 5 mil and growing, there is a side of me very aware the opportunity costs we represent. I may be slightly inflating the costs, but I doubt by too much w each of them having spent months in the hospital... Mine is a family of miracles, some medical and some of our country's good will.

 

So instead of saying the utilitarian is the only good approach, I give thanks and try to make the most of the opportunities we are given in a generous society. The last I tell people as a push back against the perception of our society's heartless ways of looking out only for ourselves (allowing some individual's have ability to be giving separate from society).

[FanboyOf91]

 

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Collins will probably caves. She talks a lot but usually votes with her fellow Republicans.

 

Murkowski is a wild card. She's a rogue and doesn't always vote the party line.

 

 

[Larry]

Remember when the Republicans spent years claiming that the Democrats rammed through health care legislation that was written in secret, without the opposition even being allowed to see the legislation, let alone offer input?  (Implying that doing so was bad, or something?)  

[skinsmarydu]

9 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Collins will probably caves. She talks a lot but usually votes with her fellow Republicans.

 

Murkowski is a wild card. She's a rogue and doesn't always vote the party line.

Which is what makes me a little crazy about Rand's vote.  He's an eye doctor...his dad is a gynecologist (which should give every woman the willies).  Don't they know the importance of their fields of "expertise"?  My mom got a little crazy when my dad's last set of hearing aids ran about $6000.  She's a breast cancer survivor.  How do people constantly, over and over again, vote against their own self interest, or the best for their constituents? 

I guess what keeps me in the politics game is...I swear, this is something a 5 year old would say...what's gonna happen next?

[FanboyOf91]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Count me as one of those women.

Edited June 7, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[twa]

So how many counties in Ohio are w/o a marketplace provider now?

[visionary]

 

[Mooka]

On 6/6/2017 at 4:08 PM, FanboyOf91 said:

 

 

There's no way this can be true. 

 

How could a massive health care reform bill follow the Byrd rule? Its impossible.

[RedskinsFan44]

 

[Mooka]

Good grief.... how old is Orrin Hatch?

 

 

He has a girl sitting next to him that just tells him what to say? 

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

If they ram this through the Senate and Trump signs it, the Republicans are toast in 2018, if that poll is any indication.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mooka said:

Good grief.... how old is Orrin Hatch?

 

 

He has a girl sitting next to him that just tells him what to say? 

 

He's doddering. Utahans are insane to keep electing him.

Edited June 10, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[visionary]