President Barack Obama/Vice-President Joe Biden Re-elected to 2nd Term Thread

[Predicto]

That quote is so bad it could come out of Atlas Shrugged. When you read more of what he said he was basically saying these millionaires could not get where they are without the little guy. You are just as important as they are with their factory.

Please - he did not say that. He said that someone had to build the roads and bridges too. We all have to pay for the roads and bridges. It's right there in black and white.

This is 100% projection. "I'm going to pretend Obama said something different than he said, then I am going to reflect on how out of touch Obama is for saying the awful thing that I just made up and attributed to him."

---------- Post added July-16th-2012 at 03:53 PM ----------

Where does the money for education, roads, police, etc, etc come from? It's not like these business are getting a handout.

Who said they got a handout? Obama didn't.

Good lord, this is like a game of telephone.

[deejaydana]

Of course they are complaining. They don't know what Obama actually said any more than you did. They just read the Fox or Breitbart misquote, same as you, and they are running with it - same as you did.

That's 4 times in one day you have been fooled now. Isn't it starting to bug you?

Are you really serious? That was a verbatim quote I posted. Was it all of it? No but that wasn't an effort to misprint what he said. I can't ever get upset at you. This is only a message board where we exchange ideas and opinions. I don't take it personally.

[GSF]

same thing

They are? Maybe this will help you out:

[ATTACH]47038[/ATTACH]

[Predicto]

Are you really serious? That was a verbatim quote I posted. Was it all of it? No but that wasn't an effort to misprint what he said. I can't ever get upset at you. This is only a message board where we exchange ideas and opinions. I don't take it personally.

No it wasn't a "verbatim quote." It was an out of context hack job. It left out the preceeding sentence, and without the preceeding sentence, the second sentence looks like it says something completly different than what was actually said.

This: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that."

is incredibly different than

this: "If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that."

I'm not accusing you of being the evil hack-jobber, by the way. I suspect you didn't even know there was a preceeding sentence until now - the angry conservative headlines do not include it and the blogs don't talk about it. But you are awfully susceptible to their smoke and mirrors. 4 times in one day, and you haven't acknowledged a single one of them. If it seems like I'm riding you today - it's true, I am. I really suspect you don't realize how often you get played by these people :whoknows:

[@DCGoldPants]

Right now Obama should keep doing whatever he's doing because its knocked Romney off his game. His only real path to victory is to make Romney so unelectable that only the core would show up for him.

[deejaydana]

No it wasn't a "verbatim quote." It was an out of context hack job. It left out the preceeding sentence, and without the preceeding sentence, the second sentence looks like it says something completly different than what was actually said.

This: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that."

is incredibly different than

this: "If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that."

I'm not accusing you of being the evil hack-jobber, by the way. I suspect you didn't even know there was a preceeding sentence until now - the angry conservative headlines do not include it and the blogs don't talk about it. But you are awfully susceptible to their smoke and mirrors. 4 times in one day, and you haven't acknowledged a single one of them. If it seems like I'm riding you today - it's true, I am. I really suspect you don't realize how often you get played by these people :whoknows:

doesn't verbatim simply mean exactly accurate? It does I believe. Well, I suspect you just don't like diverging viewpoints. And of course I read the paragraph that preceeded the line I posted. I just chose to post the worst part of what he offered. And in my opinion it's an awful viewpoint by him. It take all kinds of people and views to make up this world, don't it?

[Larry]

Well I've seen plenty of small business owners already complaining about the quote.

Perhaps because they swallow the same lie you did?

(The same lie which, after it's been proven to be a lie, you still defend?)

Here's a test. A simple question for you:

In the quote "If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.", the word "that" refers to . . . ?

[skinsmarydu]

I do believe you make a good point, however the republicans in congress made a vow from day 1 to do whatever it took to get Obama out of office. Many of Obama's offerings have often been to the right of what true liberals want. It doesn't matter what Obama offers up b/c The Reps aren't going to work with him on anything.

Right you are.

And even Bill Maher (who gave a mil to the super pac, and admitted it, disclosed it) said that if Barack Obama is a liberal or a socialist, he's a really ****ty one.

[Popeman38]

Can I ask a question? Even with the context, isn't the quote idiotic? Doesn't tax revenue fund all the infrastructure? So every small business owner he was addressing I'd, in fact, pay for it.

[twa]

for such a supposedly great communicator he sure gets misunderstood a lot

good thing he has people to tell us what he really meant

popeman he overlooks much and gives the impression success is just something that happens or is given to you

of course he only has his own experience to judge by I suppose

[skinsmarydu]

Can I ask a question? Even with the context, isn't the quote idiotic? Doesn't tax revenue fund all the infrastructure? So every small business owner he was addressing I'd, in fact, pay for it.

Whose quote?

And most people who aren't in the "taxed enough already" party know that tax revenue funds almost every federal program we have. They just don't realize that stuff costs more, expecially with the wars that oil revenues we never got didn't pay for, (thank you Mr. Rumsfeld, you liar.)

[sacase]

Please - he did not say that. He said that someone had to build the roads and bridges too. We all have to pay for the roads and bridges. It's right there in black and white.

This is 100% projection. "I'm going to pretend Obama said something different than he said, then I am going to reflect on how out of touch Obama is for saying the awful thing that I just made up and attributed to him."

---------- Post added July-16th-2012 at 03:53 PM ----------

Who said they got a handout? Obama didn't.

Good lord, this is like a game of telephone.

This is from your own quote

look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

He just said it right there in black and white per your quote. Small business oweners are not so smart, they are not the only hard working people out there. They did not get there on their own. Yes they did get there on their own, they took the RISK, they organized everything, they did the research, they made the sacrifice. This is Obama trying to make the little guy feel special about himself. This is Obama trying to tell the masses that the rich as same as they are.

So he said it, but he is not out of touch. This is the type of thing he wants.

[skinsmarydu]

Where does the money for education, roads, police, etc, etc come from? It's not like these business are getting a handout.

Taxes, all of it.

There is more of a population now, requiring more education funding K-12.

Roads are primarily handled by states, especially if they turn down federal funding. Drive through South Carolina. You'll understand that their nutbag governor (Nikki Haley) cares nothing about the car repairs her constituents have to pay for due to bad roads. She won't accept federal funds that would help her state with that issue, or their declining academic scores.

Police. Now that the former administration made sure that our surplus left by the Clinton administration went to tax cuts, the middle class is suffering. Leading to more crime. People who would've never resorted to stealing (read it in the papers) are doing so, leading to the incarceration of normally law-abiding folks. Folks who had 6-figure jobs before their jobs got outsourced, or downsized to a smaller salary.

Did I cover everything? I love ya, dude, really.

[sacase]

Taxes, all of it.

and who pays the taxes?

[Popeman38]

Taxes, all of it.

There is more of a population now, requiring more education funding K-12.

Roads are primarily handled by states, especially if they turn down federal funding. Drive through South Carolina. You'll understand that their nutbag governor (Nikki Haley) cares nothing about the car repairs her constituents have to pay for due to bad roads. She won't accept federal funds that would help her state with that issue, or their declining academic scores.

Police. Now that the former administration made sure that our surplus left by the Clinton administration went to tax cuts, the middle class is suffering. Leading to more crime. People who would've never resorted to stealing (read it in the papers) are doing so, leading to the incarceration of normally law-abiding folks. Folks who had 6-figure jobs before their jobs got outsourced, or downsized to a smaller salary.

Did I cover everything? I love ya, dude, really.

The surplus you speak of never existed. There was ever a surplus for Bush to squander. The US Treaury website will confirm this. If you run a surplus, the deficit will be reduced. The deficit increased every year of the Clunton admin. This has to be the most frequently repeated partisan line on this board.

[skinsmarydu]

The surplus you speak of never existed. There was ever a surplus for Bush to squander. The US Treaury website will confirm this. If you run a surplus, the deficit will be reduced. The deficit increased every year of the Clunton admin. This has to be the most frequently repeated partisan line on this board.

I have heard your post before, and will do said research. But it's not as if deficit spending hasn't been done before..and continued. Shoot, we did it during Dubya's entire admin...one of those wars wasn't warranted, and our entire nation will pay for it, the most of whom are the people who cared enough to fight for our rights to argue over these same issues.

My father (a preacher since before I was born), always prayed for the President, every Sunday. Was never very political, but I know that he knows Jesus was a liberal. Jesus bucked the system, wanted people to stop judging each other and help our neighbors in need. That's who we used to be as a nation, not who we are now, and that, to me, is sad.

[Popeman38]

I have heard your post before, and will do said research. But it's not as if deficit spending hasn't been done before..and continued. Shoot, we did it during Dubya's entire admin...one of those wars wasn't warranted, and our entire nation will pay for it, the most of whom are the people who cared enough to fight for our rights to argue over these same issues.

My father (a preacher since before I was born), always prayed for the President, every Sunday. Was never very political, but I know that he knows Jesus was a liberal. Jesus bucked the system, wanted people to stop judging each other and help our neighbors in need. That's who we used to be as a nation, not who we are now, and that, to me, is sad.

I won't defend Bush's spending.

And I agree. But I don't agree that the government needs to be helping out our neighbors. I think we as individuals are the most generous people on earth - anonymously. Ask us to help someone face to face and a majority shake their heads and drive on by.

[GSF]

I own a small business which I began in 2008. I currently have 6 fulltime employees and 2 part time. I am lucky enough to be enjoying some nice success now after being in business 4 years.

The quote is true. I couldn't have done any of it without some help, some good luck, and most importantly my guys. IMO, any small business owner who's mad about that quote either doesn't understand it, or is just looking for something to be mad about.

BTW, for all of those who claim Obama makes it so hard for Americans to start businesses,I'm not aware of any of his policies that have hurt my business in any way.

[Jumbo]

The phrase under attack that Obama used was dumb. Moreover, IMO he leans too far to one side on properly addressing all the relevant dynamics between "business owners and the workers" (pick your way of framing it--I'm being lazy). He's not balanced in a general sense.

Yet much of the negative reaction to this comment is also dumb. To make up a reasonable number for illustrative effect, about 80% of ALL partisanship displayed here and elsewhere is essentially, dumb, and certainly is a big part of all our national problems. But those most guilty will justify or deny their shtick and continue unabated. Of this I have zero doubt.

Regarding another recent theme in this thread, and usually applicable to any such thread, here's another gem from one of my favorite people:

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.~~~Mark Twain

Currently we are not a nation built on competent problem solving. We are more committed to exacerbation of existing problems and continuous creation of new problems, mostly in the name of greed, ego, and ignorance, and all nurtured by partisan politics. Way to go us!

[chipwhich]

BTW, for all of those who claim Obama makes it so hard for Americans to start businesses,I'm not aware of any of his policies that have hurt my business in any way.

Not an Obama fan, but in my industry he has pushed for more work to go out as small business set-aside work which is a good thing for me.

[Larry]

The surplus you speak of never existed. There was ever a surplus for Bush to squander. The US Treaury website will confirm this. If you run a surplus, the deficit will be reduced. The deficit increased every year of the Clunton admin. This has to be the most frequently repeated partisan line on this board.

It's a little hard to see, at this scale, but if you go to the source, and scroll down to the raw data, Gross Public Debt, inflation adjusted to 2005 dollars, in billions, was:

1999 $6460

2000 $6349

Now, yes, I have heard that the federal general revenue fund ran a deficit that year, but that it was small enough that the social security surplus was able to cover it.

So, what's your point? "W didn't wipe out a surplus in every single account the federal government had, he only wiped out a deficit that was so small that the social security surplus covered it"?

(And, do you really want to argue that the surplus or deficit of social security doesn't affect the federal debt?)

[Bang]

I own a small business which I began in 2008. I currently have 6 fulltime employees and 2 part time. I am lucky enough to be enjoying some nice success now after being in business 4 years.

The quote is true. I couldn't have done any of it without some help, some good luck, and most importantly my guys. IMO, any small business owner who's mad about that quote either doesn't understand it, or is just looking for something to be mad about.

BTW, for all of those who claim Obama makes it so hard for Americans to start businesses,I'm not aware of any of his policies that have hurt my business in any way.

I don't have employees, but I do run my own show. Policies haven't hurt me, and in fact, my tax load has decreased slightly.

Not much, but a little.

~Bang

[Popeman38]

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Gross%20Public%20Debt&units=k&size=l&year=1995_2004&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a&spending0=6034.81_6236.07_6349.89_6406.44_6460.30_6349.58_6365.04_6723.05_7181.19_7598.87

It's a little hard to see, at this scale, but if you go to the source, and scroll down to the raw data, Gross Public Debt, inflation adjusted to 2005 dollars, in billions, was:

1999 $6460

2000 $6349

Now, yes, I have heard that the federal general revenue fund ran a deficit that year, but that it was small enough that the social security surplus was able to cover it.

So, what's your point? "W didn't wipe out a surplus in every single account the federal government had, he only wiped out a deficit that was so small that the social security surplus covered it"?

(And, do you really want to argue that the surplus or deficit of social security doesn't affect the federal debt?)

Question: if a corporation counted income from its sales department as revenue, and used that money to purchase company stock, and then claimed that cash as additional income, would you consider that cooking the books (counting each dollar as two revenue streams)?

THAT is how Clinton claimed a surplus. SSI took in more money than it had in obligations. They are required to buy US Goverment securities, which the government then sold. Each one sold is intragovernmntal debt. The federal govt is obligated to repay every cent. In order to pay off every cent, the government will have to borrow that money again.

Now, how did we run a surplus when the nation debt increased every single year?

EDIT: if SSI had truly covered any deficit we had, how did the national debt increase? This isn't rocket science, it's bean counting.

[chipwhich]

SSI took in more money than it had in obligations. They are required to buy US Goverment securities, which the government then sold. Each one sold is intragovernmntal debt. The federal govt is obligated to repay every cent. In order to pay off every cent, the government will have to borrow that money again.

Don't go there with Larry....

[Larry]

Question: if a corporation counted income from its sales department as revenue, and used that money to purchase company stock, and then claimed that cash as additional income, would you consider that cooking the books (counting each dollar as two revenue streams)?

THAT is how Clinton claimed a surplus.

No, it isnt.

The "Gross Public Debt" figure counts the t-bills held by SS, not as a second source of revenue, but as non-existent.

(That's because, to the government as a whole, those t-bills are both a debt, and an asset.).

"Intergovernmenal Debt" counts those t-bills as debt, but not as an asset.

Heres how the "Gross Public Debt" number looks at things:

SS collects $10. "The government has $10"

SS buys a t-bill. "The government has $10, and a $10 t-bill, and a $10 debt. It's still $10 ahead."

Here's how "Intergovernental Debt" looks at things:

SS collects $10. "Who cares?"

SS buys a t-bill. "The government is $10 in debt".

The intergovernmental debt number doesn't care about the $10 cash that came in, or about the t-bill. To it, the debt exists, and nothing else does.

(At least, that's the way I understand it).