Kilmer17 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 I dont think farmer Bill in Afghanistan is living his life and sees a picture of US marines pissing on a Taliban corpse and thinks "Screw this! Im joining the Taliban!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Now they're going to go from really really hating us to really really really hating us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I dont think farmer Bill in Afghanistan is living his life and sees a picture of US marines pissing on a Taliban corpse and thinks "Screw this! Im joining the Taliban!" No, but you still have a lot of young people whose families were displaced by the American invasion and live in a poor struggling country and have no prospects. They see an occupying force that seems to have no intention of leaving but keeps trying explain how they're looking to improve the situation and then you have terrorists behind them saying the opposite....and out comes a picture of the American soldiers pissing on the corpses their fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims. Yet in your mind that has no more impact than a Playboy? Really? Your view of the American military is much different than theirs, things like this mean so so much more to them than to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Im saying those that who could have reached the hate needed to join have already done so and or will do so in the future for any reason. This one event, or any one event has no bearing on those decisions by individuals like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 A big part of the discussion related to the Abu Ghraib incident(s) was whether or not the administration had created an environment where that sort of behavior was ordered, encouraged, or tolerated. NY TImes article: Abu Ghraib Swept Under the Carpet http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/opinion/30thu1.html. The question is...will there be that sort of reaction to this incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Im saying those that who could have reached the hate needed to join have already done so and or will do so in the future for any reason.This one event, or any one event has no bearing on those decisions by individuals like that. I realize that this by itself isn't going to create some mass recruiting frenzy, but it's just one more event they can point to and say "See...I told you what kind of people they are!" I have all the respect in the world for our military and would never condemn them for the actions of a few, but this kind of thing is unacceptable. Like I said before, once it's out there...it's out there. The coverage here doesn't do more damage where it counts than the initial release of the video/images. The only thing coverage here does is cause problems at home. It doesn't hurt the soldiers in the field, it just allows for the higher ups to get beat on and for politicians to use to their own advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I realize that this by itself isn't going to create some mass recruiting frenzy, but it's just one more event they can point to and say "See...I told you what kind of people they are!"I have all the respect in the world for our military and would never condemn them for the actions of a few, but this kind of thing is unacceptable. Like I said before, once it's out there...it's out there. The coverage here doesn't do more damage where it counts than the initial release of the video/images. The only thing coverage here does is cause problems at home. It doesn't hurt the soldiers in the field, it just allows for the higher ups to get beat on and for politicians to use to their own advantage. They aren't gathering recruits based on this or playboy pictorials. At least not the hardcore recruits. This is still very wrong. And very bad. But not because it is going to significantly enhance their ability to recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Unforgiven, you mean people that routinely use props like this http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoX1QUQ9PqR4AAvyJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djews%2Beating%2Bchildren%26fr%3Dcrmas%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D0&w=550&h=405&imgurl=ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fjew-eating-palestinian-cartoon.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fivarfjeld.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2F18%2F&size=15.2+KB&name=Jew+eating+an+Arab+Palestinian+child.+Published+in+several+Arab+...&p=jews+eating+children&oid=bc94da8f854b6805cce26558d22f0894&fr2=piv-web&fr=crmas&tt=Jew%2Beating%2Ban%2BArab%2BPalestinian%2Bchild.%2BPublished%2Bin%2Bseveral%2BArab%2B...&b=0∋=72&no=0&tab=organic&ts=&sigr=11ag60kcn&sigb=139o88ok1&sigi=128s04oik&.crumb=1h0FIOCNixF are going to be further incensed by this vid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Unforgiven, you mean people that routinely use props like this http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoX1QUQ9PqR4AAvyJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djews%2Beating%2Bchildren%26fr%3Dcrmas%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D0&w=550&h=405&imgurl=ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fjew-eating-palestinian-cartoon.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fivarfjeld.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2F18%2F&size=15.2+KB&name=Jew+eating+an+Arab+Palestinian+child.+Published+in+several+Arab+...&p=jews+eating+children&oid=bc94da8f854b6805cce26558d22f0894&fr2=piv-web&fr=crmas&tt=Jew%2Beating%2Ban%2BArab%2BPalestinian%2Bchild.%2BPublished%2Bin%2Bseveral%2BArab%2B...&b=0∋=72&no=0&tab=organic&ts=&sigr=11ag60kcn&sigb=139o88ok1&sigi=128s04oik&.crumb=1h0FIOCNixF are going to be further incensed by this vid? Hey, I never said they weren't crazy to begin with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If the corpses were actual taliban members I have this reaction: 1 - Wasn't smart to video tape it. In this day and age you shouldn't record anything that will harm you or anyone you care about. 2 - Personally I don't care. The Taliban were scum even without their ties to Al Qaeda or their war with us. The oppression they represent is horrible on it's own. The fact that they did aid terrorists in attacking the US and others and are now at war with us just makes them that much worse. It's not a classy thing to do but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 3 - This is not the same as Abu Ghraib and it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yeah, I guess I should say that I don't respect the Taliban in any way. I'm not sitting here thinking "How dare they treat those poor men that way!" My issue is what the repercussions mean outside of that. Like others have stated, this isn't going to have much staying power, just wait till one of the Republican primary candidates says something stupid and the media will coverage will die off quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I couldnt care less about the act of 4 Marines pissing on the corpses of guys who are trying to kill them. Uh, I think the term is "were". You know, "corpses"? ---------- But, leaving that aside, How do you feel about our enemies using the corpses of our soldiers as props for their political expression? ---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 04:52 PM ---------- my first thought after seeing the unit was please don't let my baby be in this vid or over them. Mine was (and is) "I hope it's a fake". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know our enemies probably do stuff that makes this look like a tea party, but this is still unacceptable. I surely hope this is an isolated incident and not a normal, underground Marine custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Uh, I think the term is "were". You know, "corpses"? ---------- But, leaving that aside, How do you feel about our enemies using the corpses of our soldiers as props for their political expression? ---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 04:52 PM ---------- Mine was (and is) "I hope it's a fake". War is hell. Seeing our soldiers dragged through the streets of mogodishu didnt change the way I felt about the enemy there. I was pissed off at our own leaders lack of stones to respond. Des, Im glad you and P have determined that this isnt on the scale of Abu G. Im sure the NYTs will agree and drop it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Im sure the NYTs will agree and drop it soon. Why do you keep wanting to drag the NYT into this like they're the only ones bothering with this "non-story" ? Even the trolls at Fox News have been going on and on about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I always imagine a world where another nation invades and occupies the U.S. Our nation is fractured into factions, many people want to live in peace and survive the bloodshed. They are supporters of our interim government which intends to cooperate with the invading forces as best they can. Portions of the military provide security for our new interim government, other more radical portions of our military and populace join the resistance movement which has been fighting the invasion with guerilla tactics from day one. Apply it to this scenario. One day, the invaders kill a number of our countrymen who are involved in the resistance and videotape themselves leisurely urinating on their corpses. Try to imagine how people would react, and spare the obvious "it isn't the same situation" posts. No **** it isn't the same situation, this is an exercise in perspective and empathy. Since we're not living in Afghanistan and we're the invading occupation force we have to use hypothetical situations for the less imaginative among us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why do you keep wanting to drag the NYT into this like they're the only ones bothering with this "non-story" ?Even the trolls at Fox News have been going on and on about this. Oh I bet FoxNews plays this over and over for weeks and weeks. They want to smear Obama anyway they can. I bet they find a way to link this to a higher up and ultimately do what the NYTs did with Abu G. "When did the administration know about soldiers pissing on corpses and why didnt they stop it?" or something to that affect. Why did I pick on the NYTs at the onset? Because they were the worst over reactors to Abu G. And Im betting they wont have the same reaction to this. And some on the left will immediately dismiss it, even though it took time for the NYTs to develop their "in depth" stories about the prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 War is hell. Seeing our soldiers dragged through the streets of mogodishu didnt change the way I felt about the enemy there. I was pissed off at our own leaders lack of stones to respond.Des, Im glad you and P have determined that this isnt on the scale of Abu G. Im sure the NYTs will agree and drop it soon. Kilmer, this is one video. The Abu Ghraib investigation yielded dozens of photos and even more accounts of rape, torture, murder, and prisoner abuse which was ongoing at a systemic level there. The media didn't pounce on it. It had been investigated for months before it broke as a big story. If this incident is similarly investigated and yields a similar systemic history of abuse, it will be a big story too. Until then, I find it pretty offensive and disturbing that you would equate this one incident to the awful, awful things that went on in that prison so that you can make some whiney messageboard post. I can only assume you aren't as familiar with what went on there as you think you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Mine was (and is) "I hope it's a fake". The fakes are usually more sensational,this just doesn't have the same impact as raping a virgin or dismembering a child ect. my sphincter clenched when I saw it was idiots from his division since they all look alike in gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh I bet FoxNews plays this over and over for weeks and weeks. They want to smear Obama anyway they can. I bet they find a way to link this to a higher up and ultimately do what the NYTs did with Abu G. "When did the administration know about soldiers pissing on corpses and why didnt they stop it?" or something to that affect.. Actually, I would expect the reaction to be more one of "How can this liberal apologizer Obama dare to prosecute our brave soldiers for some harmless fun? I bet he's going to turn them over to the UN." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins_fan1982 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How moronic do those guys have to be to do something like that and actually videotape it? Seriously...like dude, wtf? Marines...keeping it classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh I bet FoxNews plays this over and over for weeks and weeks. They want to smear Obama anyway they can. I bet they find a way to link this to a higher up and ultimately do what the NYTs did with Abu G. "When did the administration know about soldiers pissing on corpses and why didnt they stop it?" or something to that affect. Why did I pick on the NYTs at the onset? Because they were the worst over reactors to Abu G. And Im betting they wont have the same reaction to this. And some on the left will immediately dismiss it, even though it took time for the NYTs to develop their "in depth" stories about the prior. I join the chorus that notes your trolling skills have really weakened lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 War is hell. Seeing our soldiers dragged through the streets of mogodishu didnt change the way I felt about the enemy there. Funny, when I hear about that happening to "one of ours", my first reaction is a fantasy involving a passing AC-130 turning everybody and everything within 200 yards of our soldier into hamburger. I tend to react like Robert DeNiro in the Untouchables. Acts like this tend to cause our country to do things like classify every person in the country where it happened as "them", and to decide that we're going to make war with all of "them". But hey, if it doesn't bother you, then I guess that explains why you think it would have zero effect on them. Although I suspect that most of them aren't as dispassionate and forgiving as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Kilmer's news headline: "Marines Piss on Corpses: Blame Lies with NY Times" -- The U.S., our culture, and our troops do hold the moral high ground in battling Al Queda and the Taliban. When the whole world is watching the conflict, that's important. Stuff like this weakens that conviction. The people who should be the most angry about this are the tens of thousands of U.S. troops who do their jobs the right way, because - fair or not - the actions of these 4 or 5 morons tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 one celebrates and rewards the other disavows and prosecutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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