isle-hawg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The people who should be the most angry about this are the tens of thousands of U.S. troops who do their jobs the right way, because - fair or not - the actions of these 4 or 5 morons tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of the world. Spot on. Well these dumb****s got their 15 minutes of fame by videotaping what they did. What they did borders on treason in my book as it aids the enemy. To answer the OP's comment about Abu Ghraib connection a significant part of that story was the Army's cover up for their officers running the prison, and just holding the enlisted accountable for their actions. They were either following orders (think of Code Red from "A Few Good Men") or officer's in charge who were negligent in doing their job at the best, but since we were waterboarding enemy's at the same time perhaps some might think the orders came from high above such as SECDEF, yet only the low ranking folks were prosecuted. That was at least in part of why that was such a story. The photo of the female solider with a dog leash on one of the naked men also was quite the photo op as well. Sex sells - just look at the magazines, newspapers on the checkout isles of most supermarkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemsSC7Skinfan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I find it amusing that people enjoying the freedoms of our country take the time to even f with things of this nature. Who are you to care, you are contributing nothing to the war that these BOYS are going through. Boys tend to make mistakes, we can argue whether the mistake was the act or filming it till we're blue in the face. What shouldn't happen is constant negative talk about the marines as a whole or our armed services in general unless you actually serve or have served. I have not served, I have no opinion on this subject because I know nothing of what it is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The U.S., our culture, and our troops do hold the moral high ground in battling Al Queda and the Taliban. When the whole world is watching the conflict, that's important. Stuff like this weakens that conviction. The people who should be the most angry about this are the tens of thousands of U.S. troops who do their jobs the right way, because - fair or not - the actions of these 4 or 5 morons tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spearfeather Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 After reading stories like this: Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school TALIBAN By Atia Abawi CNN Shamsia and Atifa remain determined to get their education despite the attacks.Shivering in pain and calling for her mother, Shamsia's hands shake uncontrollably, her eyes swollen shut and her skin peeling from terrible acid burns.The 19-year-old was heading to school along with her 16-year-old sister, Atifa, in Kandahar, Afghanistan. It was a warm November morning last year and their only anxiety was being late for class. "We saw two men up ahead staring at us. One was standing off and the other one was on their motorcycle. I wanted to go but there was a black object in his hand and he took it out," Atifa says. The girls thought it was a water pistol. "He grabbed my arm and asked, 'Will you be going to school anymore?' He then threw acid on my sister and threw acid on me," Shamsia says. They weren't the only ones attacked that day. Several other teachers and students were targeted on their way to Meir Weis Mena School in Kandahar, the nation's third-largest city and one where the Taliban have long been influential. Atifa was burned so badly that her red scarf melted onto her dark brown hair. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-22/world/acid.attacks_1_kandahar-taliban-afghan-government?_s=PM:WORLD over the years, there's a part of me that wonders why the group of Marines stopped at a # 1. Recording it, was not the smartest thing to do, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The U.S., our culture, and our troops do hold the moral high ground in battling Al Queda and the Taliban. When the whole world is watching the conflict, that's important. Stuff like this weakens that conviction. The people who should be the most angry about this are the tens of thousands of U.S. troops who do their jobs the right way, because - fair or not - the actions of these 4 or 5 morons tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of the world. +1 on this... If you are a part of the team, your actions reflect on the whole team. Having said that, I hear that war can get pretty ugly. People are people. I would think that out of all the stuff that goes on in a war, this kind of stuff is not even close to being on the top of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 oops n/m wrong post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I really don't care what our troops do to the bodies of those cowards. I know it's not PC but that is the way I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't think it will have much effect on Taliban (aren't we making friends with them now anyway?) or Al Qaeda recruitment. I do think that this sort of idiocy hurts our image and diplomacy around the world and makes it more difficult for the other soldiers who are trying to get locals to work with them. As to the videotaping, it's interesting that people seem so fond of capturing their own misdeeds on video. I recall a good bit of video footage being recovered in Libya for example that was actually made by Gaddafi's soldiers of themselves torturing and shooting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 They taped themselves torturing and shooting KDaffy as well didn't they? I blame cell phones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I find it amusing that people enjoying the freedoms of our country take the time to even f with things of this nature. Who are you to care, you are contributing nothing to the war that these BOYS are going through. Boys tend to make mistakes, we can argue whether the mistake was the act or filming it till we're blue in the face. What shouldn't happen is constant negative talk about the marines as a whole or our armed services in general unless you actually serve or have served.I have not served, I have no opinion on this subject because I know nothing of what it is like. Interesting take from someone who has never served and doesn't have an opinion. :confused: It was stupid regardless of what American did it. Who are we to care ? We pay those men and women. We are Americans that have pride and absolutely enjoy our freedoms...but that type of crap is classless and disrespectful. We are always as a Country trying to be the bigger and better man. Those "BOYS" that you are talking about reflect on all of us whether you like it or not, that is reality.And 18 year olds aren't just boys, you can't just say boys will be boys. That would be pretty pathetic. I think you could have presented your point better. Perhaps it is because you are from South Carolina...see what I did there ? You can not blame every Muslim for the Taliban, You can't blame every German for WWII, You can't blame every Black guy for a club shooting, etc, I can go on for days with stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I find it amusing that people enjoying the freedoms of our country take the time to even f with things of this nature. Who are you to care? The People tasked with responsibility to self govern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWO-tarious Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nice try at injecting "liberal media bias" into the discussion at the start. The answer is no, because it is nowhere near as systematic a problem and no reason to think it goes up the ladder of command. The NYT didn't run 32 consecutive stories on the soldiers who deliberately murdered Iraqi civilians either. It may not have frontpage staying power, but for those of us who are close to the action the ramifications are immense. SECDEF vowed a "full investigation" which translates into unwanted pain and rearend intrusion. Those clowns made life much more difficult for us by pulling such a stupid stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabR Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Those clowns made life much more difficult for us by pulling such a stupid stunt. Its understandable in a war zone, not saying excusable just understandable. My uncles served in the Marines in the Pacific and they did much worse to the Jap corpses, War changes you when you see your buddies killed everyday and you see your own mutilated/ War makes you do things you would never do otherwise PS They are not Clowns they are combat soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh, I think everybody agrees that things like this happen. We'd simply strongly prefer it if we didn't KNOW about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh, I think everybody agrees that things like this happen. We'd simply strongly prefer it if we didn't KNOW about it. Agreed. If I were in a war zone getting shot at, not knowing if I were to ever get back alive, I might be inclined to do the same thing. I just wouldn't (hopefully) document it. It's the whole Facebook/texting/twitter generation that absolutely must convey their every thought/action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sooooo. A quick mea culpa. I went back and looked and the NYTs streak of stories didnt start right after the original story. It was after more details came out. So while it doesnt change my opinion that the NYTs is slightly left of Pravda in their bias and propaganda, I was too quick to make that leap. I now return you to your regularly scheduled trolling. I still dont care what our soldiers are doing in a war zone. Ive heard stories about WWII soldiers in Europe shooting into allied prisons just to pick off a few Germans when they felt like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I always imagine a world where another nation invades and occupies the U.S.Our nation is fractured into factions, many people want to live in peace and survive the bloodshed. They are supporters of our interim government which intends to cooperate with the invading forces as best they can. Portions of the military provide security for our new interim government, other more radical portions of our military and populace join the resistance movement which has been fighting the invasion with guerilla tactics from day one. Apply it to this scenario. One day, the invaders kill a number of our countrymen who are involved in the resistance and videotape themselves leisurely urinating on their corpses. Try to imagine how people would react, and spare the obvious "it isn't the same situation" posts. No **** it isn't the same situation, this is an exercise in perspective and empathy. Since we're not living in Afghanistan and we're the invading occupation force we have to use hypothetical situations for the less imaginative among us. Did we aid a known terrorist in attacking the invading country and refusing to turn over the terror mastermind? Other than that, these scenarios are identical :doh: :doh: :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oisn1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Did we aid a known terrorist in attacking the invading country and refusing to turn over the terror mastermind? Other than that, these scenarios are identical :doh: :doh: :doh: Yup, all Afghans did that, right? All Afghans supported Bin Laden, especially the ones who may have joined the Taliban due to our accidental killing of civilians. Oh wait, you're just talking out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 By the way, the Drudge Report headline right now on this topic is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yup, all Afghans did that, right? All Afghans supported Bin Laden, especially the ones who may have joined the Taliban due to our accidental killing of civilians. Oh wait, you're just talking out of your ass.You believe that ALL Afghans are outraged to see the Taliban being pissed on? That is what the media is trying to sell. I am not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 These folks will be returning to the US at some point so it's best to not allow wanton cruelty or sacrilage. Meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oisn1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You believe that ALL Afghans are outraged to see the Taliban being pissed on? That is what the media is trying to sell. I am not buying it. First of all, I was referring to the ridiculous notion that all Afghans were supportive of Bin Laden and that it would it be impossible to empathize with how it would feel to see, for example, North Korean troops pissing on American corpses in the DMZ. But I guess you wouldn't care, so meh. American Afghans are pissed, that's for sure. Seriously, go to a mosque near you and ask them for their honest opinion. They aren't going to go crazy, but they will be pissed off about this. There is a difference in saying that people of a shared heritage are all terrorists, and that those same people might be angered by seeing their people pissed on. All Afghans might not care, but the vast majority in Afghanistan and abroad are rightly angered by this. Again, you don't buy it, yet we bombed the hell out of two countries, killing hundreds of thousands, because of 9/11. I think it is understandable that Afghans might be miffed by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This is part of War. It always has been and always will be. Get into it, because just like our Wars in the ME, it's never going to end. When mentioning the possibility of going to War, everybody just sees an evil opponent and a potential finish line. Let's celebrate the torture, the crippled veterans in the streets, the schools full of children that will get blown to bits. Old glory, is full of god awful misery and we all know it. **** War, figure out what needs to be done to end our dependency on oil. It'll be a lot cheaper than what we've paid so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Prediction: This gives the president an excellent option to appeal to his anti-war supporters whom he has disappointed in the recent past. This could likely provide the perfect solution for him to pull out all troops from Afghanistan as an "apology" to karzai. This will renew his Nobel Peace prize cred with the left, appeal to fiscal conservative folks by saving the war money, and to my almost chagrine, take the wind out of the sales of any potential 2012 opponent that is running on an anti-interventionism plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think it is understandable that Afghans might be miffed by this. I'm guessing you mean the Afghans who's families have not been killed,tortured and oppressed by the Taliban? Pretty sure the ones that had their fathers castrated and their bodies strung up on lightpoles to rot are in the Meh camp. :pfft: SS, probably so It is easy to find things like this if you look and want them in circulation,also it is easier to justify downsizing and cutting troop levels if they are regarded as savages or baby killers ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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