Hooper Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 You can't write off interceptions like that. An NFL QB needs upside or history to have people look past a season with more Int's than TD's. Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by. He's a great number two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think we're absolutely better off. FAs are younger, character is improved, young guys are getting opportunies (even if this is mostly due to injuries), and we've increased the number of draft picks (as opposed to doling them out left and right*). I know this offense is ugly, but I've got to give Shanahan credit for drafting an LT in the first and replacing Rabach, two of the biggest things fans were clamoring for. He also beefed up the D-line (none of the "d-linemen should only be taken late in the draft" bs), another thing fans had been calling for. He hasn't had enough time to get all the building blocks for a franchise, but he's made a ton of smart moves IMO. *the McNabb and Brown trades notwithstanding. To be fair on the Brown trade though, he was a good LT coming off injury that we got got for, what, 2 mid-round picks? Don't even have too much of a problem with the McNabb trade... its not like we gave up 2 first rounders for him and we did need a qb pretty desperately. As someone said earlier, my real problem with the situation was how the Shanahans treated it/him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Murf I appreciate your writing but this to me is one of those tipping point articles we tend to see with a loosing record . While you say you are not calling for Shanahan to be fired it almost seems your mouth is saying one thing while the body is saying another . The point at which the article is focusing soley on the negative aspects of the last two years, does sound like the point of the article is to turn the page . Especially stretching to blame injuries on the head coach , it makes it hard to come away with the idea that this article offers any support to the current regime given the important question the article poses . You also make the point the 2010 draft sucked ... i disagree it was not great but not a flame out . Williams gets very bad rap for not being Chris Samuels, but injuries aside he has played at a very high level this season . Yes he does need to cool off a bit but the OL with him is much much better than without, 2nd round pick - sure McNabb was a mistake, 3rd round - Brown was a risk reward move that hasn't quite payed off . He is good at times but not dominanting and bad at time but not bench worthy bad, Riley is looking solid, Adam Carricker has 5 sacks as a rotational DE in a 3-4 scheme (yet people call for him to go) and Terrance Austin is a James Thrash like special teams specialist who can contribute ....compare that to drafts even under Gibbs (like 2005) Perhaps another question would be for another article "Would the Redskins be better without the Shanahans ?" The way things are going now it is easy to say yes, but this team, the way it is composed was going to struggle, and the reason we are here is 19 years (and more) of misrule . We stuck too long with Norv and Charlie C but then reacted by chopping and changing everything ...we need a moment of quiet reflection and I have to say there is more positive than negative that happened over the last 2 seasons . If people really don't see that then they have short memories . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by.He's a great number two. My stance all season long has been that Rex Grossman is a fine number-two quarterback and John Beck is a third-stringer. Unfortunately, that means the Redskins don't have a number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think the article says a lot about how things have been done around here for the longest time. Now that Shanahan has taken the team to greater dispair by being shut out for the first time and having a 6 game losing streak for the first time in his coaching career is probably an eye opener for him. But through it all he is going to either step down as HC or he is going to keep plugging away at getting this team to be a contender again. There is no gray area adn I doubt that Snyder is going to jump in this soon to fire him since they are good friends. Heck, he let Cerrato stay around for more years than that I think he is going to allow some leeway here but I have been wrong before. Anyway I think it was a good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by.He's a great number two. I've said all along that this was a year long try out for Mentor/Back up to the rookie next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrugger Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Usually a big fan but you've lost me on this one You say you wanted a rebuild, well you got one. Look at how bad the Nats and caps were as they stripped down and started over The McNabb move sucked, but it set us back 1 year. I'll take that risk reward. Since then we've gone from the oldest team in the league to one of the youngest. We draft barkley in the first, sanu or another wr in the 2nd and I'll be very happy to with the direction of this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Usually a big fan but you've lost me on this oneYou say you wanted a rebuild, well you got one. Look at how bad the Nats and caps were as they stripped down and started over The McNabb move sucked, but it set us back 1 year. I'll take that risk reward. Since then we've gone from the oldest team in the league to one of the youngest. We draft barkley in the first, sanu or another wr in the 2nd and I'll be very happy to with the direction of this team I'm happy Shanahan is on board and am happy he's finally embracing the much-needed rebuild. But that doesn't mean I can't wonder if a year and a half into his tenure how much closer the team is to actually being respectable. I hope the entire coaching staff is here for a minimum of five seasons to finally give the franchise some stability and consistency. I'm just trying to take a moment to see how long and painful the journey is going to be moving forward. Either way, thanks for the feedback. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for? Pats in 97 went to the Super Bowl. Jets to the AFC championship shortly there after. As for Shanahan's coaching ability -- everyone wants to talk about his record without Elway. What about the Broncos record without Shanahan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Last spring, I went out to my garage, and it was the first time I've really looked around inside it for about 4 months. It took me quite a bit of time to clean it out, re-evaluate what was trash and what was worth saving, and figuring out exactly what use I had for the things in it. I can see Mike's dilemma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 What about the Broncos record without Shanahan? Considering that his successor managed to toss all of the offensive talent off the team before getting fired, it is kinda hard to judge. McDaniels almost actively destroyed that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J3553 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 the organization as a whole is better off with mike and bruce. at least you can see an honest effort to rebuild, even if they're reluctant to call it that. they've made some mistakes, but they're aren't perfect and this is a bit of a learning experience for everyone. as a fan, i've never been more comfortable with losing than i am now. i just wanna see production from the young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Pats in 97 went to the Super Bowl. Jets to the AFC championship shortly there after.As for Shanahan's coaching ability -- everyone wants to talk about his record without Elway. What about the Broncos record without Shanahan? I'm not arguing with you, but I heard something very interesting on a sportstalk show last week. They said people claim Elway didn't win a SB until Shanny got there. They said an argument could be made that Elway didn't win a SB 'til Terrel Davis arrived. Had me going "Hmmmm." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytrain98 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Shanny's call of a timeout when Dallas was about to incur a delay of game penalty on the game-winning field goal attempt is inexcusable, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I enjoy reading your articles, but this was borderline unreadable. Just from an objective standpoint you seemed all over the place and left a lot out. You open saying he did not inherit a playoff roster. So right of the bat, you cannot expect a winning record for this team. On the defensive side you vastly underrate some young players on the team. No mention of the solid year that Stephen Bowen and Adam Carriker have had so far? I'm sure Jenkins has a role to play in the future, but I don't see DE as a concern going forward. For YEARS, all the fan base asked for were some solid ends. With the switch to 3-4, Our front 7 is solid and Cofield has plugged in well into the Nose Tackle. ( He will never get crazy stats, he is an NT ) This just leaves the secondary to be "addressed". ( quotes because I'm not sure that 20 points a game is even bad ) Offensively, our Oline was a mess and will continue to be a mess when you are replacing Dockery, Rabach, Heyer, etc... While going from the Buge's Power run game to a ZBS. Look, pressures are up on the QB because of this line. Taking the Packers/Aaron Rodgers/Vick approach to this problem is to put Beck in and let him run for his life. Problem is, he seems to be a practice superstar and can't translate. Receiving is quietly very improved from years past. Gibbs did a lot of great things for the club, but players like James Thrash has no business being a wideout for this club. Next year it looks like we are going with Moss, Hankerson, and Gaffney as a solid three. Paul, Austin, Robinson are not there yet. While I am not 100% sold on Hank, he looks like he turned the corner before the injury. Davis is a #1 TE, and we need to move away from the notion that 2 pro bowl tight ends make a team. It hasn't worked for the skins and whether it be Cooley or Paulsen, The backup isn't too shabby. Qb remains an issue, and that is what is holding back this offense with a shotty line so far. However, look at our draft picks coming up. We have the ammo to make moves in both FA and the draft. McNabb didn't cost this team squat in the long run. He was an over-dramatic stop gap that needed to go. While I agree that statistically this team looks poor, the article seemed very ESPN-esque. Lacking little insight into why these things are happening and more reactionary to stats. I am in no way lumping you with those pundits, your track record speaks for itself. Fans of this team need to see this club for what it is. The roster has emerging talent, but matching a completely different scheme with a new roster takes time and I agree with you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Most folks thought we would go 6-10, if everything went perfectly. It didn't. We have been ravaged with injuries. Going 4-12 is about where this team will/should end up given our talent level and injuries. I don't really understand why this is shocking or surprising. Also, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next fan, but the way Gibbs 2.0 ran our team is one of the reasons we are in the situation we find ourselves. Yea, he went to the playoffs twice, but it didn't come cheap. My only problem with the article was the following. After being inactive for the first month or so of the season, rookie receiver Leonard Hankerson had a breakout game against Miami … and then promptly injured his hip and was lost for the year.**How much blame should be assigned to Shanahan for Hankerson’s injury? The guy was stuck riding the bench for the first two months of the season and the basically became a focal point overnight. Was it unrealistic to think his body could go from zero to 60 overnight? Did his coach set the rookie wideout up for failure by throwing him into the fire too fast? Running back Roy Helu has been fun to watch and his 4.9 yards per carry average is more than a yard better than anyone else on the roster, but he’s never been given more than 10 carries a game, so it’s still too early to know how much of the running game could/should rest upon his shoulders. In a 3 paragraph span you rip a coach for playing a rookie off the bench too much too fast and "throwing him in the fire", and then follow it up by claiming we are not playing Helu enough? Which is it? Throw them in the fire or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Considering that his successor managed to toss all of the offensive talent off the team before getting fired, it is kinda hard to judge. McDaniels almost actively destroyed that team. Mike got fired one year too soon. The Broncos were sitting on a ton of talent, I think they would have been in the playoffs under Shanny in McDaniel's 1st year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The redskins will not be better off until we find a QB. The reason isn't just because this is a QB league either. Our offense passes more than 60% of the time. No other coach hired by Dan Snyder has average less rushing attempts per game than Mike Shanahan or more passing attempts per game. 2011: 22.6 rushing attempts per game. 36.7 passing attempts per game. (61.9% passing) 2010: 21.9 rushing to 37.8 passing. (63.3% passing) In an offense that is decidedly pass happy there simply won't be any success until a QB that can run the offense without averaging two turnovers a game can be found and signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaught76 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hey Murf, quick question on the hypothetical side of things. In your opinion, would Jim Zorn or any of other rotational head coaches still be coaching today if we had a better front office? I know your article was your assessment of where we are with Shannahan, but what impact would it have had on our team if Dan had stepped back earlier and Allen or someone like him would have stepped in sooner. I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Snyder thread, we have all been there and done that. The fact he is passionate about this team and was willing to step back says a lot. So, you were comparing Shannahan's team to his predecessors' teams; what effect, in your opinion, does a different front office have if it had been implemented sooner. I don't think it would have helped Spurrier because that guy just seemed completely in over his, but maybe it would have helped some of the coaches, even Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTBIRD 227 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 To coin an old phrase,"Rome was not built over night". Shanahan, is moving in the right direction, as stated before Shanahan/Allen are cleaning up the roster and always evaluating the roster.Obviously, we need a infusioin of talent for QB and O line. The O line is the engine for the offense,and the QB is the driver. Gibbs had success because of a damn good O line and strong armed QB. Once you build this portion of the team you can build confidence. I want Shanahan to succeed, the next draft will make or break the Allen/ Shanahan regime. Hail :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcomb Kelly's Knees Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 NOPE. Jim hasselete might as well be the head coach since the only thing we do right is defense. Shanahasbeen was brought here to fix the offense and he has done NOTHING right in that regards. bust on mcnabb (2nd round pick, 4th round pick) bust on jamall brown (3rd round pick) trent williams sucks (4th overall pick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 NOPE.Jim hasselete might as well be the head coach since the only thing we do right is defense. Shanahasbeen was brought here to fix the offense and he has done NOTHING right in that regards. bust on mcnabb (2nd round pick' date=' 4th round pick) bust on jamall brown (3rd round pick) trent williams sucks (4th overall pick)[/quote'] Trent Williams does not suck. He's a 2nd year player who, in my opinon (and several cowboys fans opinons as well) held his own against the best pass rusher, if not defender, in the league in Demarcus Ware. Add to that, it looks like: Hit on Ryan Kerrigan Hit on Kory Lichtensteiger Hit on Roy Helu Hit on Stephen Bowen Hit on Adam Carriker Hit on Barry Cofield Hit on Perry Riley Hit on Jarvis Jenkins Hit on starting Will Montgomery at Center Hit on not drafting Blane Gabbert Sure Shanahan has made mistakes, but this team is much farther along with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yeah....selective reasoning is pretty much the norm here. One miss....you suck. Ten hits...that's what you were supposed to do. Yikes people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 My stance all season long has been that Rex Grossman is a fine number-two quarterback and John Beck is a third-stringer. Unfortunately, that means the Redskins don't have a number one. Question... Is there an out in John Beck's contract after this season? I think Rex would make a good mentor to the rookie (whomever that may be) next season if he continues to play well with the marginal talent he has to work with now. Make no mistake, Rex is no world-beater but he is better than a say Kyle Orton for this system right now. I took notice in how Rex gave the Dallas D-line a hard-count and then took a knee before handing the ball off to the Ref. That was being very alert and knowing what the situation was. Also, I think that if Rex loses a couple of pounds in the offseason, it may sustain his ability to move around in pocket much like we saw against Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'm not arguing with you, but I heard something very interesting on a sportstalk show last week. They said people claim Elway didn't win a SB until Shanny got there. They said an argument could be made that Elway didn't win a SB 'til Terrel Davis arrived. Had me going "Hmmmm." Yet it was Shanahan that drafted Terrel Davis, correct? One can not be accounted for without giving credit to the other... what SportsTalk show were you referring to BTW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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