Homer: Are the Redskins better with Mike Shanahan?

[Boss_Hogg]

I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

[themurf]

Harbaugh is doing a great job, but he inherited a decent roster. Better than the Skins for sure, especially in the trenches. It's well known that the players in San Fran thought Singletary was in way over his head and had tuned him out.

But again, Harbaugh is doing a great job. That dude scares me.

You're absolutely right about San Francisco. They had the bulk of the pieces in place. Just need the right coach to come in and maximize the talent on the roster. Night and day difference from what Shanahan inherited here.

I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

I agree ... for the most part. Guys like Trent Williams and DeAngelo Hall continue to try to get into shoving matches far too often. That's a lack of discipline and someone from the coaching staff needs to hold players accountable when they continue to act so selfishly.

[Hooper]

I don't have the answer on what happened with Hankerson. I don't know enough about the situation to say one way or the other, I'm simply asking if it's unreasonable to think that going from non-factor to being on the field for 45 snaps before his injury against Miami was a bit too much stress on his body. My guess as to why Helu hasn't gotten more than 10 carries in a game is because they're slowly working him in, so I'm wondering if Hankerson would still be in the lineup if it had been a more gradual transition from inactive to on the field for nearly every offensive snap.

I love ya, Murf, but that is really reaching. It's not like Hank hadn't been practicing. What if he had played every down in week one and got hurt?

Injuries happen. It's bad luck. Guy landed bad playing a violent game. Also, he's a Redskin and we're cursed.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:21 PM ----------

I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

Kyle is a punching bag, but my God, I have never seen receivers more open on a regular basis than in his scheme. And we're not talking Calvin Johnson here.

[Darkstarr]

I think shanny has done a fine job, Yes he has made mistakes, everyone does. There was nobody to build around on this team when he got here. The team was devoid of talent. In 2 drafts he has brought in the franchise's LT, 2 hard hitting young DRAFTED linebackers, a rb who has potential, a fb i like, a wr who got hurt but most seem to like and liked the pick at the time, a DL (jenkins) who alot questioned yet everyone fell in love with before he got hurt. How much do you expect? Injuries have killed this team. This team is not deep enough on talent to absorb those injuries give it time.

1. Again I point out in the last 10 years was there a better draft move then moving down and getting kerrigan and extra picks instead of taking Gabbert like so many wanted? The Mcnabb deal sucked horrible, but as bad as that was, the kerrigan move is turning out to be absolute genius. Plz mention that!!!

[Hooper]

1. Again I point out in the last 10 years was there a better draft move then moving down and getting kerrigan and extra picks instead of taking Gabbert like so many wanted? The Mcnabb deal sucked horrible, but as bad as that was, the kerrigan move is turning out to be absolute genius. Plz mention that!!!

I am still trying to figure out why scouts loved Gabbert so much. His hair maybe? It seems every draft has an overhyped QB. Let's hope we avoid the 2012 version of Gabbert.

[KingGibbs]

You're absolutely right about San Francisco. They had the bulk of the pieces in place. Just need the right coach to come in and maximize the talent on the roster. Night and day difference from what Shanahan inherited here.

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

[SkinsHokieFan]

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

I'll be honest, I thought they were going to win that division LAST year with the roster they had and the finish they had to the 2009 season (finishing up 8-8)

I was stunned by that collapse last season. And to be fair, a whole bunch of those games were close (like the New Orleans game on MNF in week 2)

[themurf]

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

With San Francisco (and basically every other football team in the history of the NFL), it all comes down to the coach and the quarterback. No one thought Alex Smith was any good until Harbaugh found a way to mask his flaws and utilize his strengths. Now, they're the second-best team in the league.

Think he'll answer the phone if The Rex Cannon calls with a few questions?

[Hooper]

I agree ... for the most part. Guys like Trent Williams and DeAngelo Hall continue to try to get into shoving matches far too often. That's a lack of discipline and someone from the coaching staff needs to hold players accountable when they continue to act so selfishly.

Yes. It is annoying. Shanny needs to get Silverback in line. I think Haslett is a hothead who likes Hall's act. Shanny should tell Haslett to get him in line and to stop bringing everybody on 3rd and long against a mobile QB. It's cost about five games now.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:32 PM ----------

Think he'll answer the phone if The Rex Cannon calls with a few questions?

My stupid prediction for the rest of the year is that Rex plays well enough to open some eyes around the league.

And that Houston will wish they had him after Leinart/pretty Beck kills them by refusing to go downfield.

[TheLongshot]

Few in DC wanted JC at QB, so the Easter Massacre trade was made for McScab. Yeah, panic move by the team.

Maybe few on this board, but in general the fanbase was very supportive of Campbell. I remember the year rumors were swirling about Sanchez the fans at the FedEx draft party, fans were showing their support of Campbell and cheered the fact that the Jets took him. As for McNabb, fans always get excited about the big names, at least until they don't produce. I don't think it was a panic move at all, but a deal Shanahan felt he couldn't refuse. Unfortunately for him, he should have. That move and the move for Brown probably set the team back a year, at least.

Are we better off than the 2009 team? Personally, other than the lack of drama, I'd have to say no. It is funny, but this team seems to resemble that 2009 squad a lot. Mediocre offense with occasional standout games, the starting RB going down and the revolving door for the rest of the season at the position. OL injuries and exposing the lack of depth. A defense that looks good, but has a tough time making the critical stop where needed. The more things change, the more things seem to stay the same...

[themurf]

You can't ask if Shanny is to blame for Hank's injury... then say you don't blame him at all when called on it. That's ridiculous.

Just like you can't kill Shanny for trading McNabb when you were a huge fan of the move and the player. Edit: you can bash him for it I guess. Just don't act like you were always against it. That's why I get to do as unaccountable fan.

I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.

That being said, it was definitely a move that set the franchise back these last two seasons. I'd love to know what Plan B would have been last season if the McNabb deal never happened. Keep Campbell? Roll with Grossman from Day 1? Let Kyle Shanahan play the position?

[KCClybun]

Shanny should tell Haslett to get him in line and to stop bringing everybody on 3rd and long against a mobile QB. It's cost about five games now.

We didn't send everyone this week. We showed cover 0, then bailed out and rushed 5. Dez is covered on the hot read slant by D-Hall and Otogwe , but Rak loses outside contain and lets' Romo sits to pee gets outside of the pocket, Dez adjusted to the ball, first down.

[pjfootballer]

We have 18 picks in the next two drafts. That's five years of picks for Cerrato.

Not only is that hilarious but so true.

[Hooper]

We didn't send everyone this week. We showed cover 0, then bailed out and rushed 5. Dez is covered on the hot read slant by D-Hall and Otogwe , but Rak loses outside contain and lets' Romo sits to pee gets outside of the pocket, Dez adjusted to the ball, first down.

I stand corrected.

It just seems like third and long in crunch time is terrible for us.

I had to blame somebody!

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:39 PM ----------

I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.

That being said, it was definitely a move that set the franchise back these last two seasons. I'd love to know what Plan B would have been last season if the McNabb deal never happened. Keep Campbell? Roll with Grossman from Day 1? Let Kyle Shanahan play the position?

I think it was Rex. Which would meant low expectations/rebuild from day one.

[TheLongshot]

With San Francisco (and basically every other football team in the history of the NFL), it all comes down to the coach and the quarterback. No one thought Alex Smith was any good until Harbaugh found a way to mask his flaws and utilize his strengths. Now, they're the second-best team in the league.

You say that, but SF seemed to believe in him enough to keep him around for so long. His situation was worse than Campbell's in that I think he had a different OC every year. (There might have been an exception the two years Singletary was in charge.) Not to mention having mostly defended-minded head coaches. Harbaugh has done a hell of a job with him, but I think Smith deserves some credit as well.

Imagine that: a head coach actually adjusting to the talent he has and working to his strengths. We haven't had enough of that in this town...

[Hooper]

Deleted because it's old news.

[skinsdude]

It's way too early to ask this question. There's been numerous threads on the horrible shape of the roster when Shanny came on board.

Few in DC wanted JC at QB, so the Easter Massacre trade was made for McScab. Yeah, panic move by the team.

Of the guys on the current roster, the question remains how many should really be here? Shanny is weeding out the wheat from the chaff. But there were so many holes to fill that almost anybody was an upgrade from what was there.

When you say "few in DC wanted JC at QB", who are the few that you are referring to? The fans or coaching staff? Are you suggesting that it was the fans that prompted the trade when you characterize it as a panic move?

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

I'm just trying to take a step back and see how much closer this team is to being good again now compared to the day he took over.

I'd be a little concerned that someone has to "take a step back" to see this. This team is missing a little depth and a franchise QB all of which will be addressed in the offseason.

To address your question about these players being a long term solution...I would guess you are looking at the current roster. If so, I would have to say yes and no. Some players have been added to fill holes (see above, depth). However, a lot of them are young players who are currently getting invaluable playing time in only their 1st, 2nd and 3rd year. This will pay off in the end. Do they look as if they have no talent, probably so. But lets not forget, they are 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players..

All this questioning MS's ability is just (forgive me) dumb as hell!! Please find us someone else who has 2 SB rings. Made it to AFC championship game with Jake Plummer. Was consistently relevant with and WITHOUT J. Elway. If you dont beleive that, then look it up.

[TheLongshot]

All this questioning MS's ability is just (forgive me) dumb as hell!! Please find us someone else who has 2 SB rings. Made it to AFC championship game with Jake Plummer. Was consistently relevant with and WITHOUT J. Elway. If you dont beleive that, then look it up.

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.QUOTE]

Id say MS did mcnabb a favor the way he handled it....He could of came out and said...the dude is dumb, lazy, out of shape, doesnt want to listen to coaches, doesnt know the playbook and doesnt seem to interested in learning it...... Had MS been honest about the douche bag, he probably wouldnt have had to the chance to play in minnesota...I mean it only took them few games to figure the samething out about the guy.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 03:02 PM ----------

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

You can question all you want...and I can tell you how rediculous it is also

And let me get this straight...you are saying MS has no chance because this is his 2nd team??? See above "how rediculous you sound"..good gosh man

[VRIEL1]

Simple answer.... YES.

Look you can't expect to change HC's every two yrs and get the results your looking for. We fans asked for continuity, we asked for a decent HC, we asked for a real GM, how about we let them fix this mess that took over 10yrs to create and leave them alone.

[brettstr]

Why in the world would Dan fire Shanahan? He is staking his own reputation on being patient and taking this team through a rebuild with the people HE brought in to do it. I am growing tired and weary of hearing people talk about firirng Shanahan. After about 8 years of placing a non competing team on the field then and only then will Dan consider making some changes. We seem to be the only franchise in history with a revolving door of coaches, and believe me we made some mistakes along the way i.e. Marty Shottenheimer.End of story.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 03:07 PM ----------

Simple answer.... YES.

Look you can't expect to change HC's every two yrs and get the results your looking for. We fans asked for continuity, we asked for a decent HC, we asked for a real GM, how about we let them fix this mess that took over 10yrs to create and leave them alone.

Agree 10000000 %

[authentic]

Thanks, dude. I don't want people to think I'm bashing Mike Shanahan or calling for his removal. Anyone who reads the columne will hopefully see that. I'm just trying to take a step back and see how much closer this team is to being good again now compared to the day he took over. We all appreciate the fact that the drama queens and distractions are gone, but how many of these players should truly be considered long-term solutions the Redskins can build a franchise around? That's my question for the day.

I think we're in better shape now than then because of the way we have gone about constructing the team. As someone else said 12 draft picks this past draft, 9 in '12, 9 in '13... Releasing Old, overrated, and overpaid vets. And not signing FAs at a premium. I also think that the offensive system is in place, we just need the pieces to put make it successful. I hear you, i don't like the results of this past season, but I have faith that it will improve....

[Riggo#44]

Great, thought provoking article as usual Murph -- thanks for your hard work! Can you give Jason Reid a lesson or 2...thousand?

I tend to agree, but to play devil's advocate a bit - how are the Redskins light years ahead of where they were? The stats and the standings remain pitiful and I'm not sure there are 10 players on the roster who are definitely building blocks. Yes, the roster is younger. But is it actually better? Yes, the salary cap situation has improved, but that has as much to do with the uncapped year as anything this regime has done.

Well, unless another regime very wisely purged the roster of horrible contracts and paid out bonuses to alleviate the cap strain, I think they deserve a little credit too. Not every team did that...

The results may not be better, I think we are in better shape. More draft picks legitimately made the roster this year than I can remember (no I am not counting the year when all the picks were kept simply b/c they were draft picks.) As someone pointed out earlier we have a decade worth of picks over the next two years. We no longer have to worry about teams like the Bengals saving us from ourselves. The roster might not be as talented on paper right now, but I think it's a much more cohesive group. And as we are all very well aware -- paper talent doesn't equal results. We are building a team, not a collection of players.

In the last month alone, Shanahan has been shut out for the first time in his head coaching career and is in the midst of his longest losing streak of his NFL career. I'm someone who is on board with him being here for at least five years, but it'd be nice to see some progress between now and then.

Other than Kerrigan, there aren't even any other rookies to enjoy watching regularly. Jenkins and Hankerson are done for the year and the rest of the newbies don't get enough regular playing time to properly evaluate.

Hank was such a kick in the dinger. He was really looking good! I do think we're going to see more and more of Helu over the next couple of weeks. I also want to see more of DeJon "Mustard" Gomes at saftey. Anything to not have Reed Doughty in coverage! Still want to see more of Perry Riley. There is something to watch, just not much right now. However, that is more due to injuries than incompetence. Another distinct difference from Snyderatto!

Please point to anywhere in this column where I suggest the coach should be removed. And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?

Not sure if he was pushed too hard or too fast, or the kid was just having a great game and was unlucky (it was his 3rd start...Helu had way more action in his 2nd game...). He really looked like he was coming into his own -- he was just open all of the time.

[illone]

I thnk it's too early to tell which players are worth building around. Regardless of that, though, we are going to be building around all the guys from last years draft, orakpo, Landry (maybe) and most of the free agents from this year sans Grossman/Beck and maybe Hall.

I don't think you will see as much turnover in year 3 as you saw in year 2.

Me personally I think Mike Shanahan is done, but could definitely be wrong about that part. Just not happy with the fact that there doesn't really seem to be a identity on this team.