HuffPo: UC Davis Police Pepper-Spray Seated Students In Occupy Dispute (VIDEO) (UPDATES)

[twa]

Oooh, look. twa has decided to try to defend his ridiculous position by making up some other position, and claiming that people are arguing for it.

Never saw that one coming.

WTF are you rambling about?....are you calling Kilmer me?

DanT...the President at Berkley (who knows a thing or two about protests) agrees liking arms to prevent access or arrest goes beyond passive resistance....as do the police

[Dan T.]

WTF are you rambling about?....are you calling Kilmer me?

DanT...the President at Berkley (who knows a thing or two about protests) agrees liking arms to prevent access or arrest goes beyond passive resistance....as do the police

Other than making some people feel glad that the smelly hippies got what they deserved, what purpose did pepper spraying them serve? The police still had to grab them and arrest them, as we saw in the video. My point is they could have done the exact same thing without pepper spraying them first. I didn't see how they were any more or less resistant after being sprayed. I think it was a useless, gratuitous tactic. And it's a tactic that backfired badly from a PR standpoint.

[Teller]

I agree. Police should employ pepper spray for every arrest, regardless of the circumstances. Arrests with pepper spray are better than arrests without it..

Nothing new from you, I see. You wanted the other dude to quote the Constitution. Quote where I said anything resembling that. Actually I'll be polite, and let you know that you can't; because I didn't. Classic Larry. Make **** up, then argue with it. Well done.

[twa]

I agree it did not really help(and was very bad press),but it remains a viable standard below actual force.

Perhaps a more sensible bunch will learn from it in the future .

[The Evil Genius]

I wonder also had this happened closer to home for many of y'all - say at Virginia Tech or at JMU - if the positions would be slightly different.

Since it's in hippie liberal California - then all the protestors must be in the wrong, correct?

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 10:35 AM ----------

I agree it did not really help(and was very bad press),but it remains a viable standard below actual.

Perhaps a more sensible bunch will learn from it in the future force.

I suspect the key lesson learned will be not to employ pepper spray on students when they are protesting simply by sitting with arms linked.

It's going to cost some police (and a police chief likely) their jobs.

[Kilmer17]

They would be in the wrong no matter the geography. The school asked the cops to disperse them. The cops asked, the students refused.

At JMU, at UCD, at NOVA CC. It's still the same result. They needed to leave.

The school and police had the authority to tell them to leave. Failing to do so earned them their just desserts. Next time follow the law.

[Chachie]

What's so weird about all this to me is that police officers are underpaid and underappreciated... just like the 99% they are being ordered to control. Who's doing the ordering? Elected officials who become part of the 1%. This is tragic.

[Teller]

It's going to cost some police (and a police chief likely) their jobs.

It absolutely will not, and should not. (Unless hippie-liberal California overreacts. [Your word choice, not mine.])

[twa]

I wonder also had this happened closer to home for many of y'all - say at Virginia Tech or at JMU - if the positions would be slightly different.

Since it's in hippie liberal California - then all the protestors must be in the wrong, correct?

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 10:35 AM ----------

I suspect the key lesson learned will be not to employ pepper spray on students when they are protesting simply by sitting with arms linked.

It's going to cost some police (and a police chief likely) their jobs.

I would have preferred opening up with the paint ball guns....them puppies will get ya moving

It may very well cost some jobs, which is why you end up with **** like firemen watching somebody drown.....enjoy the results?

How do you enjoy the costs from injuries both to the police and legal bills from the protesters injuries?

[AsburySkinsFan]

It may very well cost some jobs, which is why you end up with **** like firemen watching somebody drown.....enjoy the results?

:rotflmao: AHAHAHAHAHAH you must be trolling us, this routine has to be a major joke you're pulling on us here at ES, the problem is that it is so absurd that it is showing itself as a cartoon.

[Chachie]

Retired police chief at OWS giving some good input and perspective...

[visionary]

It may very well cost some jobs, which is why you end up with **** like firemen watching somebody drown.....enjoy the results?

Pepper spraying children keeps them from drowning?

[AsburySkinsFan]

gkOMD0D2FIg

Damn hippie.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 01:54 PM ----------

Police Chief Suspended as well as the two officers who used the pepper spray
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/11/21/uc-davis-suspends-police-chief.html

Another shoe dropped at UC Davis, where the university has put its police chief on administrative leave over a viral video in which police officers are shown pepper-spraying peaceful student protesters on campus. The two officers who used the pepper spray have also been put on leave. In a statement, the president of the University of California network said he was “appalled” by the video, and also ordered a review of campus law-enforcement policy across the system's 10 locations. Students were participating in a sit-in to show their support for the Occupy Wall Street movement.

[Larry]

Nothing new from you, I see. You wanted the other dude to quote the Constitution. Quote where I said anything resembling that. Actually I'll be polite, and let you know that you can't; because I didn't. Classic Larry. Make **** up, then argue with it. Well done.

I did quote you. When you said that pepper spraying people made them easier to arrest.

pepper spray PREVENTS far more injuries than it causes.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 02:01 PM ----------

I agree it did not really help(and was very bad press),but it remains a viable standard below actual force.

It is actual force. No matter how many times you try to spin it otherwise.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 02:03 PM ----------

They would be in the wrong no matter the geography. The school asked the cops to disperse them. The cops asked, the students refused.

At JMU, at UCD, at NOVA CC. It's still the same result. They needed to leave.

The school and police had the authority to tell them to leave. Failing to do so earned them their just desserts. Next time follow the law.

Still waiting for you to quote the part of the Constitution that says that.

I've quoted the part that says they were within their rights.

[Teller]

lol, whatever dude, they were gingerly walking around the protesters, there wasn't any emergency

I don't know of any job that gets so many benefits of the doubt

if it's a crime, take the ****ing time to solve it, if it's not then **** off

You're the one taking the unreasonable position. Explain to me how your photo match plan works. I can't wait to hear it.

[Larry]

Pepper spraying children keeps them from drowning?

I think his latest spin is to attempt to argue that if you announce that police officers can't assault people who are peacefully sitting on a sidewalk, in front of cameras, and get away with it, then that might cause certain police officers to leave the department, or to not join.

He's probably right.

[Teller]

I did quote you. When you said that pepper spraying people made them easier to arrest.

I said it prevents more injuries than it causes; which is absolutely and unequivocally true.

[Jumbo]

You don't cough up blood from being pepper sprayed. That's ridiculous; and I suspect deliberately so.

It's really damned simple. You don't want arrested or pepper sprayed, follow the officer's lawful order. And I can say with certainly, having accidentally broken AND dislocated someone's elbow trying to get there hands behind their back, pepper spray PREVENTS far more injuries than it causes.

You can cough up blood after being pepper-spayed.

And I pretty much agree with the rest.

Do as your told.

America the dead.

~Bang

Kinda agree with the sentiments here too.

Nah.

America the ridiculously exaggerated, FTW!!!

and here too :cool:

pepper spray is physical force

and here, as it is true.

We've all seen how passive resitance arrests go. No one gets hurt unless they themselves get violent (and then they deserve it.) Sitting there isn't causing anyone to be injured, nor is it endangering anyone. So arrest them. do the passive arrest drill. Put the tie wraps on them and pick them up while they slump and play dead. Drag them into the paddy wagon and be done with it. No one gets hurt, the cops all get to go back to work, the kids make bail, one of them will whine that a cop twisted her arm, and nothing will come of it.

Going to pepper spray for this situation is an unwarranted response.

~Bang

And here, though the least line is a matter appropriately under debate.

Have you ever done "police work?" I'm not putting myself on any pedestal, or saying that you can't have an opinion if you haven't, but it certainly gives you a different perspective.

I have --in several capacities from being an actual LEO, briefly, (a new Jumbo disclosure for ya --there's even a cable TV series now about the group in which I served) to being a consultant in my current career on a variety of matters.

Kilmer, pepper spray causes injuries

It can certainly can, as well as be a pertinent contributing factor in other cases (just for the record).

The same way it's been done a thousand times in the past.

You walk behind them, you explain to them they are going to be arrested (Something most of them are prepared for anyway, in fact, are probably couinting on). You gently put the cuffs on them, you and a buddy hook under their arms, you pick them up, and you drag them to the paddy wagon.

It's slow, it's not violent, it happens all the damn time.

Old women get arrested like this with no harm.

America.

Remember where we live. Remember what we stand for.

~Bang

Pretty much agreed, especially the last part. :cool:

WTF are you rambling about?...

To parapharse Pennywise, "we all ramble down here" :pfft:

I agree it did not really help(and was very bad press),but it remains a viable standard below actual force.

Perhaps a more sensible bunch will learn from it in the future .

Pretty much agree, though it was using actual force

I'm just so agreeable with so many today.

In closing, to LadySkinsFan: you make many intelligent contributions to our discussions in this forum, and from an interesting perspective in many cases (that observation having nothing to do with the extent of my agreement or disagreement with any particular position of yours). Thanks for that.

[Prosperity]

You're the one taking the unreasonable position. Explain to me how your photo match plan works. I can't wait to hear it.

1. take pictures

2. create fake facebook account

3. join UC network

4. friend as many students as possible

5. look through pictures

POLICE WORK

What happened to Investigative work? They chose the easy, stupid way out. Lazy bums.

[Teller]

1. take pictures

2. create fake facebook account

3. join UC network

4. friend as many students as possible

5. look through pictures

POLICE WORK

What happened to Investigative work? They chose the easy, stupid way out. Lazy bums.

I can't even humor that with a response. :rotflmao:

[Prosperity]

I can't even humor that with a response. :rotflmao:

that's your failure

[Teller]

that's your failure

No wait. Actually I will.

From now on that's what we'll do. We'll just take pictures of criminals and use facebook. Somebody robs a 7-11, and they catch up to him, take his picture. Then compare that to every picture of someone you can find in a ski mask online. Then find out who took the picture. Track them down. See if they know who the guy they photographed was, and then once they have his name, jump on facebook and see how many "John Smiths" there are in the area the crime happened. (Assuming, of course, that the guy is FROM the town the robbery was committed in.) If not, just send friend requests to EVERY John Smith, until one of them admits to being the robber. Y'know, police work.

Clearly your plan is a lot simpler than asking for ID, issuing a citation, and ordering people to move along. AND it will drastically speed up the justice system too.

You're a smart guy. I'd venture to say smarter than I am. But this idea just makes ZERO sense.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 02:23 PM ----------

And I didn't even get into what you do if these kids say...cover their faces. I mean seriously dude. WTF.

[Prosperity]

No wait. Actually I will.

From now on that's what we'll do. We'll just take pictures of criminals and use facebook. Somebody robs a 7-11, and they catch up to him, take his picture. Then compare that to every picture of someone you can find in a ski mask online. Then find out who took the picture. Track them down. See if they know who the guy they photographed was, and then once they have his name, jump on facebook and see how many "John Smiths" there are in the area the crime happened. (Assuming, of course, that the guy is FROM the town the robbery was committed in.) If not, just send friend requests to EVERY John Smith, until one of them admits to being the robber. Y'know, police work.

Clearly your plan is a lot simpler than asking for ID, issuing a citation, and ordering people to move along. AND it will drastically speed up the justice system too.

You're a smart guy. I'd venture to say smarter than I am. But this idea just makes ZERO sense.

when did I say don't ask for ID? When did I say don't issue them a citation?

How about you address the argument I made instead of the one you want to beat.

The point is don't pepper spray them. There are laws. There are courts. Let's use them. If they don't show up to court on their hearing date, get a warrant go to their house and arrest them. ****. It's not that complicated.

[gbear]

Facebook has a pretty decent face match now (crazy!) where it asks people is this x? Works better when you can limit the population like "Went to college at ...) I know there were some arrests made early on using the facebook match and then looking at the history of status postings of the idiots who actually posted admissions and pictures of crimes. Still, this would be labor intensive to do for hundreds of people. However, it might be rewarding to randomly pick some to investigate. I know the whole arguement for equal crimes deserve equal punishment, but there is something to be said for having cop x randomly pick a number and having cop y count from the left till they get to that number for the "lucky" winner of an investigation to identify and fine. Equal punishment is equal chance for investiagtion/punishment (maybe? I'm not a lawwyer, and it's been a while since I stayed in a fancy dancy hotel).

[Larry]

I asked a question a while back, and haven't seen a response.

My question was, if the protesters were completely blocking the sidewalk, then is that a situation in which the government has the authority to un-block that sidewalk? (Using force that's appropriate to the situation)?

I assume from reading posts, here, that the reason nobody's responded is because everybody thinks the answer is "yes".

(Is it possible that Tailgate actually agrees on something? Is that allowed?)

(I even think the answer is yes, myself. I just really don't like that answer. To me, I'm not certain that "freedom of speech" ought to be less important than "obstructing a sidewalk". So, to me, it's a really reluctant, grudging "yes".)