Via Adam Schefter Twitter: Fred Davis, Trent Williams among 11 players facing discipline for testing positive

[Conn]

I'm sorry I just don't understand this love affir some people have with Williams. I had high expectations just like everyone else, and I see improvement over last year, but no way is he in the top 3rd of LT's in the league which is why I call him avg. Just the way I see it.

Then you're seeing it wrong. He is most definitely in the top 3rd of the league when it comes to LT's. Its not a "love affair", he's an excellent LT when healthy, and possibly the most physically gifted LT in the league.

[SkinsTillIDie]

You let me know when those two get back from their second tour in Afghanistan kid......drug free despite extreme stress.

Something tells me you are unemployed....

I sincerely applaud and thank you for your service, but with all due respect, that doesn't quite change my point -- in a multi-multi-billion dollar industry, in a business consumed by more than 240 countries worldwide, Trent Williams and Fred Davis are top-10 in the world at what they do.

Top-10 of all humans, when trillions of dollars are spent in this country trying to cultivate people to ultimately do a better job than they are doing.

And personally, I'm doing extremely well for myself, thank you very much

[DJD2]

...and possibly the most physically gifted LT in the league.

Really ?

[Conn]

Really ?

Do you know anything about LT's in the NFL? No offense, but that's the one part of my statement that's not even debatable. Why the hell do you think Shanahan drafted him? He's possibly the biggest freak in the NFL at LT, and every elite LT is a physical freak.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

You let me know when those two get back from their second tour in Afghanistan kid......drug free despite extreme stress.

Something tells me you are unemployed....

that guy just got :owned: with this response

[Conn]

that guy just got :owned: with this response

Not to inject myself into their personal disagreement (and it shouldn't have been taken down that road originally), but I'm not really sure why this would be true. Frank may be in the military, which is a more respectable and moral profession perhaps, and I'm sure we all appreciate his service...but it has nothing to do with anything. Military service is not the trump card that can be pulled out in any debate to win.

[frankez99]

Not to inject myself into their personal disagreement (and it shouldn't have been taken down that road originally), but I'm not really sure why this would be true. Frank may be in the military, which is a more respectable and moral profession perhaps, and I'm sure we all appreciate his service...but it has nothing to do with anything. Military service is not the trump card that can be pulled out in any debate to win.

Wasn't pulling the "military card", I was pulling the response card due to this lovely comment: "Funny, I'm pretty sure Trent Williams and Fred Davis are better at their jobs then you will be at anything you ever do, ever."

Please don't accuse me of using military service as leverage in an argument.

[Samuels]

Then you're seeing it wrong. He is most definitely in the top 3rd of the league when it comes to LT's. Its not a "love affair", he's an excellent LT when healthy, and possibly the most physically gifted LT in the league.

x2

[DJD2]

Do you know anything about LT's in the NFL? No offense, but that's the one part of my statement that's not even debatable. Why the hell do you think Shanahan drafted him? He's possibly the biggest freak in the NFL at LT, and every elite LT is a physical freak.

He is not the most physically gifted freak LT in the league no matter how badly you want it to be true.

And "no offense" son, but every statement is debatable. Attempted insults don't make your arguements any truer. You need to take a step back and realize what you are writing, and stop trying to demoinze poeple that have differing opinions. Believe it or not, your thoughts are not absolute.

[KokoMike]

The use of personal attacks by posters and mods sucks.

[Conn]

Wasn't pulling the "military card", I was pulling the response card due to this lovely comment: "Funny, I'm pretty sure Trent Williams and Fred Davis are better at their jobs then you will be at anything you ever do, ever."

Please don't accuse me of using military service as leverage in an argument.

It read like you were using your military service to take the high ground in the argument. My apologies if that was not your intent.

Because otherwise, I'm not sure what your statement had to do with his assumption about your job performance vs. a starting NFL player's. Because there are not many people in the world who are as good at their jobs, as a professional athlete is at theirs in their prime, no matter how trivial their job in the entertainment/sports business may be. But that is irrelevant to his statement.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Not to inject myself into their personal disagreement (and it shouldn't have been taken down that road originally), but I'm not really sure why this would be true. Frank may be in the military, which is a more respectable and moral profession perhaps, and I'm sure we all appreciate his service...but it has nothing to do with anything. Military service is not the trump card that can be pulled out in any debate to win.

to me it is when used in that context - its a completely selfless profession...you leave your family and loved ones to go to some foreign, war-torn dangerous place.

[shakinaiken]

Wasn't pulling the "military card", I was pulling the response card due to this lovely comment: "Funny, I'm pretty sure Trent Williams and Fred Davis are better at their jobs then you will be at anything you ever do, ever."

Please don't accuse me of using military service as leverage in an argument.

i dont think he was accusing you of anything, just merely outlining that its been done on this board before. i believe i can speak for all included here in that we appreciate your service to the country, but that doesn't excuse you from criticism of your posts on a message board.

---------- Post added December-4th-2011 at 06:33 PM ----------

to me it is when used in that context - its a completely selfless profession...you leave your family and loved ones to go to some foreign, war-torn dangerous place.

again, your missing the point. on a message board, we're all equal in terms of the weight or significance we have pertaining to our opinions.

[Conn]

He is not the most physically gifted freak LT in the league no matter how badly you want it to be true.

And "no offense" son, but every statement is debatable. Attempted insults don't make your arguements any truer. You need to take a step back and realize what you are writing, and stop trying to demoinze poeple that have differing opinions. Believe it or not, your thoughts are not absolute.

I'm not demonizing anyone, "son". I disagree with you, and think that your opinion is ridiculous. Sorry about that, but its the truth.

Trent Williams is one of the most physically talented LT's in the league. That's been common knowledge since he was drafted, and I'm not sure how its debatable. Its not my opinion, he is incredibly gifted. Mind you, being one of the, if not the, biggest physical freaks in the NFL does not mean he's the best performance-wise. That's something that you hope comes with experience, a mean streak, and hard work learning the more technical aspects of OL play.

---------- Post added December-4th-2011 at 06:36 PM ----------

to me it is when used in that context - its a completely selfless profession...you leave your family and loved ones to go to some foreign, war-torn dangerous place.

That's very admirable, but has nothing to do with relative job performance in comparison with a professional athlete, even with as frivolous in the big picture as a professional athlete's short career is.

[shakinaiken]

Shanahan should cut them both.

Yes I'm serious.

They are now both 3-time offenders with one positive test away from a 1-year ban.

This is a 4-8 team and while Davis has been really good this season, Williams has been avg. Is it safe to label him a bust now?

The team may see a short term decline but it would be the best decision for the organization in the long run, not to mention the message it would send to the rest of the team.

utterly ridiculous proposition. thats all there is to say. cutting your two most consistent players on offense? nah i dont think so

[GaryGreenMonk]

it was reported on twitter by one of the beat guys that both guys were ushered from the locker room before the media was allowed in..

interesting nugget was that the nameplate was removed from Freds locker. Trents was not.

[Conn]

it was reported on twitter by one of the beat guys that both guys were ushered from the locker room before the media was allowed in..

interesting nugget was that the nameplate was removed from Freds locker. Trents was not.

Fred isn't under contract after his suspension ends. Trent is.

[skinsfansince1988]

I would want them both cut, this isn't the Redskins and it makes our organization look bad. Compare Davis to Cooley, who people were wanting to get rid of to keep Davis, i want neither on my team, trade them for draft picks or players, just get rid of them

[Conn]

I would want them both cut, this isn't the Redskins and it makes our organization look bad. Compare Davis to Cooley, who people were wanting to get rid of to keep Davis, i want neither on my team, trade them for draft picks or players, just get rid of them

Sometimes fans are so naive.

You remember rooting for Portis and Moss as our best offensive players for 5+ years, right? They were partiers, and I'm sure they weren't the only ones.

I don't condone their behavior, and they should be punished (assuming Davis is re-signed, which I guess we can't assume).

But we need them.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

That's very admirable, but has nothing to do with relative job performance in comparison with a professional athlete, even with as frivolous in the big picture as a professional athlete's short career is.

We're talking about someone that plays a game for a living...a game. Not a doctor, not a lawyer...a game. Something children play. You cant equate how someone plays a game to how someone does a job. Surgeons save lives, football players do what? Make a couple plays on Sunday and collect a fat paycheck?

[skinsfansince1988]

Sometimes fans are so naive.

You remember rooting for Portis and Moss as our best offensive players for 5+ years, right? They were partiers, and I'm sure they weren't the only ones.

I don't condone their behavior, and they should be punished (assuming Davis is re-signed, which I guess we can't assume).

But we need them.

how are they helping the team? They are hurting the team and since they knew what would happen and still did it, they will do it again and be suspended for a year, get rid of then now, trade them get draft picks for them and draft players who are good people that won't do drugs and get suspended

[DJD2]

Sometimes fans are so naive.

You remember rooting for Portis and Moss as our best offensive players for 5+ years, right? They were partiers, and I'm sure they weren't the only ones.

I don't condone their behavior, and they should be punished (assuming Davis is re-signed, which I guess we can't assume).

But we need them.

No, we don't need them. You can find replacements. There may be short term pain, but long term it will pay off.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Everyone's just assuming it's weed or has it been reported that it's weed?

Just hope it's nothing harder.

[Conn]

We're talking about someone that plays a game for a living...a game. Not a doctor, not a lawyer...a game. Something children play. You cant equate how someone plays a game to how someone does a job. Surgeons save lives, football players do what? Make a couple plays on Sunday and collect a fat paycheck?

None of this has anything to do with the original issue. You're making it moral/ethical/whatever. You're making it emotional. Its not about that at all. These guys are good at what they do, world-class in fact, and that's what's being discussed.

---------- Post added December-4th-2011 at 06:56 PM ----------

how are they helping the team? They are hurting the team and since they knew what would happen and still did it, they will do it again and be suspended for a year, get rid of then now, trade them get draft picks for them and draft players who are good people that won't do drugs and get suspended

I'm not about to defend their stupid decisions. Its frustrating, irresponsible, and clearly selfish. If that's the type of players they are at heart, then I agree with you. But I don't think that's the case. I think it was a stupid mistake born from confusion at the beginning of the season in terms of the testing. Should they have not smoked at all? Absolutely. I'm not defending that. Especially since they've obviously been caught before. They need to get their **** together, especially Davis if he wants to be re-signed.

I just think we're better off WITH them than without them if they can make better decisions in the future.

[No Excuses]

We're talking about someone that plays a game for a living...a game. Not a doctor, not a lawyer...a game. Something children play. You cant equate how someone plays a game to how someone does a job. Surgeons save lives, football players do what? Make a couple plays on Sunday and collect a fat paycheck?

Seriously. A surgeon, doctor, engineer, scientist or military member has contributed more to society than any of these lazy athletes. How does it matter how good they are at a game? I find it embarrassing that you play a childs game for a living and still can't follow simple rules. I would lose the ability to work for our federal government the moment I failed a drug test. These guys have failed three tests in a year and a half window? That is pathetic. Chances are, that if they didn't learn after their first or second bust, they never will. I fully expect both to be suspended for a full season and possibly more in the future. Stupid tends to remain stupid.