Did Tim Hightower underperform today?

[KDawg]

You guys understand that we're running the stretch to set up the naked boot pass off of stretch, right? Because they have to respect the stretch, or the pass, it becomes a guessing game. Which is what our starters did against the Steelers in preseason

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You guys understand that we're running the stretch to set up the naked boot pass off of stretch, right? Because they have to respect the stretch, or the pass, it becomes a guessing game. Which is what our starters did against the Steelers in preseason

I completely understand that and think it's great. Had we hit any big plays with the bootleg, I'd even call the entire strategy a success. However, it seemed like almost every single bootleg we attempted was sniffed out by the Giants or yielded very moderate success. I could be forgetting something, but that's my impression. I'm not saying you abandon the stretch play/bootleg philosophy...it's obviously a successful one given the offense. I'm just thinking you could mix in a handful of other running plays to keep the defense guessing even more.

[KDawg]

I completely understand that and think it's great. Had we hit any big plays with the bootleg, I'd even call the entire strategy a success. However, it seemed like almost every single bootleg we attempted was sniffed out by the Giants or yielded very moderate success. I could be forgetting something, but that's my impression. I'm not saying you abandon the stretch play/bootleg philosophy...it's obviously a successful one given the offense. I'm just thinking you could mix in a handful of other running plays to keep the defense guessing even more.

Well, I agree. I'd like to see more inside and even power run football (maybe even with Torain getting some carries on the power stuff). But the stretch naked boot pass may have been successfully guessed by Perry Fewell, thus limiting its effectiveness. It won't always work, and I agree you have to mix in some inside zone stuff/power runs... But, the stretch/naked combination is deadly.

I have to rewatch the game, but its also possible that we have a 'tell' that gives away when we run the Naked that the Giants caught on film.

[sportjunkie07]

i dont think he underperformed. the giants were playing the run a lot, and our run blocking was pretty atrocious; the holes werent opening up like they were in preseason. hightower was getting pressured behind the line of scrimmage a lot... he turned 2 yard losses into 1-3 yard gains multiple times. he also found the end zone once, blocked well, and didnt fumble. though his stats may not reflect it, i think he had a good performance, B+

the commitment to the run was a great coaching call, it wore down the defense and kept them guessing. when our oline opens up the run game, hightower is going to have some big games. this could very well happen next week.

if the above scenario occurs again, i would like to see ryan torain get some carries. his bruising style might get us a few more yards and wear down the defense a little more.

---------- Post added September-13th-2011 at 10:38 AM ----------

I completely understand that and think it's great. Had we hit any big plays with the bootleg, I'd even call the entire strategy a success. However, it seemed like almost every single bootleg we attempted was sniffed out by the Giants or yielded very moderate success. I could be forgetting something, but that's my impression. I'm not saying you abandon the stretch play/bootleg philosophy...it's obviously a successful one given the offense. I'm just thinking you could mix in a handful of other running plays to keep the defense guessing even more.

i think the giants gameplanned for all the bootlegs we ran in preseason. it seems they picked the right defensive play everytime we ran a bootleg and had a defended unblocked hurrying rex.

[KCClybun]

It's probably situational. Kyle called a run out of shotgun that actually was pretty successful in the red zone, got us in 2nd and 3rd to set up that touchdown pass, I think. And I think he ran inside the tackles with Helu.

We'll probably see him mix it up more, but that stretch play is our bread and butter.

[fwo40]

And that's all well and good and all. But I would've liked to see it on some other downs than every 1st down. I don't have the stats but it seemed like the stretch was the 1st down play 75% of the time. I mean mix it up a little and maybe the thing can wear people down and pick up yards at the same time.

[JoeSkins]

Here is your quote..."I wasn't sold on Hightower at the time of the trade but he's slowly proving his worth."

The problem is on your end. I said I wasn't sold on Hightower at the time of the trade, not that I wasn't sold on the Hightower trade. They are not the same thing; how do you not get that?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well, I agree. I'd like to see more inside and even power run football (maybe even with Torain getting some carries on the power stuff). But the stretch naked boot pass may have been successfully guessed by Perry Fewell, thus limiting its effectiveness. It won't always work, and I agree you have to mix in some inside zone stuff/power runs... But, the stretch/naked combination is deadly.

I have to rewatch the game, but its also possible that we have a 'tell' that gives away when we run the Naked that the Giants caught on film.

I'll also concede that it's very possible that they guessed it on many plays we didn't run it...leaving guys open when we actually passed? I don't know enough to know if that's possible, but it would be a successful use that isn't very obvious to the naked eye.

[Tay]

It wasn't the yards that mattered, it was the commitment to the run. The Giants loaded up the box and forced Grossman to beat them.

Exactly.

Hightower did his job this game. I believe the Giants game plan coming into the game was to load the box and blitz so that they could stop the run and force Grossman into the mistakes he is known for. Grossman hinted towards that in a post game presser, where he stated that the Giants didn't come out on Defense how we expected (causing his slow start). They usually only rush 4, since they have a strong D Line. This game the Giants decided to blitz more and play man on the outside.

[Main-Maine]

Quite frankly I was impressed by his effort. I never saw him give up and just go down on any play. He ran hard each time he had the ball. And let's not forget his touchdown saving tackle on the fumble. Without his effort it would have been a very different game in the fourth quarter.

I definetly agree with this statement, because without Hightower the game would have been 21-28 with a possible comeback.

[Going Commando]

Hightower looked good Sunday. I counted only one questionable decision on his part on a cut that stalled and he only got back to the line. There was only one negative play in the running game in the first half and it was Chester's fault, not Tim's. His blitz pickup looked good every play and he showed off some nice hands and YAC running when he was targeted in the passing game. It was a pretty good half for him. I'm going to break down the second half next.

[KDawg]

Hightower looked good Sunday. I counted only one questionable decision on his part on a cut that stalled and he only got back to the line. There was only one negative play in the running game in the first half and it was Chester's fault, not Tim's. His blitz pickup looked good every play and he showed off some nice hands and YAC running when he was targeted in the passing game. It was a pretty good half for him. I'm going to break down the second half next.

He had three total negative plays. All accounted for a one yard loss. Haven't rewatched the game, its hard while I'm in season, so I can't tell you who was at fault on the three of them.

[Purpose Driven]

The team ran for more yards than the past two times they played the giants, and they won. The YPC will come. I think the focus on HT after he started gashing this in the first half helped other areas of the game.

[Skins24]

And that's all well and good and all. But I would've liked to see it on some other downs than every 1st down. I don't have the stats but it seemed like the stretch was the 1st down play 75% of the time. I mean mix it up a little and maybe the thing can wear people down and pick up yards at the same time.

Wasn't just first down, I'm pretty sure 98-99% of all runs were stretch plays

[TK]

You guys understand that we're running the stretch to set up the naked boot pass off of stretch, right? Because they have to respect the stretch, or the pass, it becomes a guessing game. Which is what our starters did against the Steelers in preseason

Well about 3 of us get it. The rest can go back to their circle of stupid.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well about 3 of us get it. The rest can go back to their circle of stupid.

Some of us also get it, but believe you can call non-stretch running plays from time to time as well. Maybe I'm missing something?

[TheShredder]

Giants committed to stopping the run, weren't a lot of holes. He still made some good runs and some clutch first down catches. I won't say he underperformed. He did what he needed to, and kept the threat of the running game in there. Sometimes that's all it takes.

He had 75 yards of total offense, a touchdown, and a HUGE touchdown saving tackle off the Rex Grossman fumble. It won't jump off statlines, but I think that's a pretty solid performance.

No, he had 97 yards of total offense, a TD, the tackle on the fumble, great pass blocking that gave way to Rex connecting on big plays. He had a very solid game. The Giants stacked the box and pushed through most the day. Unfortunately they didn't know that Rex and our WR's were going to be that solid when they put their money on stopping the run. It bit them in the ass!

[Going Commando]

Some of us also get it, but believe you can call non-stretch running plays from time to time as well. Maybe I'm missing something?

The outside zone stretch running play isn't just a playcall, it's a foundation that an entire offensive philosophy is built on.

I understand calling different types of runs when we line up in shotgun and on the goal line but what other running play is there to call when we line up behind center in normal situations?

What other running playcall do we need?

[TK]

The outside zone stretch running play isn't just a playcall, it's a foundation that an entire offensive philosophy is built on.

it's a bread n butter play. Gibbs had 40/50 Gut. Shanny has the stretch. With the added bonus of the stretch rope-a-doping a D for the naked bootleg.

People here need to understand that when the Giants were stacking the box, the stretch was the best running play to keep calling to thin out the D, which in turn, sets up the naked bootleg.

[darrelgreenie]

The outside zone stretch running play isn't just a playcall, it's a foundation that an entire offensive philosophy is built on.

I understand calling different types of runs when we line up in shotgun and on the goal line but what other running play is there to call when we line up behind center in normal situations?

What other running playcall do we need?

You're joking right?

Turner/Shanahan's Denver running game were multifaceted.

I'm a broken record on this topic so I'll just re-post:

Mike called a much more diverse running game.

Kyle's running game was very basic: inside zone/out side zone.

Mike's was more diverse of course the staple was zone runs but it also featured traps, draws, tosses.

I was saying earlier this thread that our run game playcalling under Kyle was very vanilla.

It basically consisted of inside zone, outside zone and stretch vs Mike's Denver WCO which was multidimensional not just inside-zone outside zone it had pulling, trapping, draws and the toss.

Below are some elements that were missing from Kyle's running game: Inside Trap/Draw

edit: Another element missing: The Toss @ :59s

[Larry]

What other running playcall do we need?

An occasional reverse?

Just a thought from a complete amateur.

[SemperFISkins]

I think he needs to go back to rockin' #39! 25 makes me think of Joe Washington but with dreads. (Little Joe was our 3rd down back catching many passes and his theme song was "Breakin My Stride")

[gbear]

Larry, they did fake a reverse. Does that count?

[darrelgreenie]

Some of us also get it, but believe you can call non-stretch running plays from time to time as well. Maybe I'm missing something?

I know right?

The rest of us musta plain dang gum never heard of something as new fangled and all purpose as the zone stretch.

[Going Commando]

You're joking right?

Turner/Shanahan's Denver running game were multifaceted.

I'm a broken record on this topic so I'll just re-post:

We do run some pulling and trapping plays, or at least we did Sunday. But we're still running off tackle in general in normal situations.

As far as I can remember, we didn't run any toss plays Sunday. That's not a bad play call given that Trent can run and get out in front of it but I don't think calling a few more toss plays will change much about our running game. A toss left still has the line blocking pretty much the same way as a stretch left. Our success on the ground will always come back to successfully executing the stretch left for us. The play gives a smart runner enough options that you don't need a ton of variety with the playcall to pick up yards so long as someone on the playside of the line does a good job blocking.