The Jarmon/Gaffney and Holliday/Hightower Trades in Hindsight

[terpfan]

I'd say that it's hardly hindsight yet, since the regular season has. Even started yet. Both trades look pretty good though, considering we barely gave anything up. I like Hightower a lot.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I started a thread on this a while ago, about how good over all the trades over the last 2 off seasons had been. The notable exception is obviously the McNabb trade, but the rest have been very good.

Also factor in that we got Beck for a guy that the 'Skins actually got back after Baltimore released him (Dalton, I think?) so we got Beck for literally nothing. And he's either going to be the starter or the backup QB.

What the 'Skins have done is very judiciously traded for players who have good character and fit their scheme, and they have given up very little and mostly things they didn't need or want anyway.

This is how you run a front office. Every front office is going to make mistakes. Even the Patriots, Colts and Steelers sign guys for big money and it doesn't work out. But the better organizations have those as the minority of the moves instead of the majority. The 'Skins under Vinny did ONLY the big moves and they rarely worked out...

[Bang]

So we just declare that Jarmon would not have done anythings, and thus it is so?

Why don't we see how he plays in Denver before we decide?

Either that or we declare we had a lot of defensive ends, and needed a veteran receiver used to the system.

But overall I agree. The idea that every guy we get rid of is a bum is silly.

They have need for Jarmon, we have need for Gaffney.

~Bang

[Stadium-Armory]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/9/3/2399790/denver-broncos-fight-for-53-defensive-end-battle

Jeremy Jarmon: Jarmon had a solid game, to go with a very solid preseason. He plays the 3 tech a lot and looks to be a good sub for Ayers role on defense. He was often the first guy to get the offensive read and reposition himself presnap. He didn't win too many one on ones at the line, but he got good push and clogged up his lanes. Projection: A solid effort with no serious mistakes should cement him as the final DE slot.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/9/3/2399790/denver-broncos-fight-for-53-defensive-end-battle

Nice find. I hope the kid goes on to have a good career. Supplemental draftees from small schools are always nice, feel-good stories when they pan out.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

I think it simply can't be understated how well we've done with most of our trades thus far, but none more apparent than the Jarmon/Gaffney and Holliday/Hightower trades.

At first, a lot of us were questioning whether the Gaffney/Jarmon trade was a smart move considering the youth and upside in Jarmon who had played well whenever given an opportunity and the fact that Gaffney probably has a few years left of being a top 2 wideout.

To re-iterate, we got Hightower and Gaffney, two very productive players, one still very young and the other still in his prime for guys, in all likelihood, we would have cut come tomorrow. We did this before the rest of the NFL knew that. Just incredible.

Agree w/ OP in general I like our trades especially the Hightower trade.

But, we didn't get Gaffney for free.

We gave up a young player w/ potential to acquire Gaffney.

Jarmon was a young relatively unknown talent.

He was in the same boat as Bryant, Darion Scott and Rob Jackson.

They're all players who didn't see the field until the last 3 games.

But, in those last 3 games they all flashed.

Sure he was drafted as a 43 LDE/DT but many 34 DE make the transition form 43 DT/DE (eg Cullen Jenkins).

As our only real pass rushing DE Jarmon would have been a lock to make the team in my eyes b/c every 34 needs at least 1 player with his skillset.

So I guess it depends on your assessment of the players.

I view Gaffney as a WR with somewhat inflated stats, because he played on a pass happy team that was usually playing from behind, but a good WR none the less (No.2/No.3 type)

[Backpack3r]

Jarmon sucked. Both trades were great, especially the Hightower one.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I whole heartedly agree with you on the THT trade. But I TOTALLY disagree on the Gafney one.

I've never understood this belief that Jarmon couldn't transition to a 34 end. If you want to run an elite 34 D, it's imperative you have linemen that can rush the opposing QB. Doing that opens up so many more options with the guys behind, your LB's and safeties. (Not that I'm convinced Coach Haslett is that inventive to ever do that anyways, but that's another story.). Jeremy Jarmon, since Orakpo and the rookie Kerrigan have been moved to OLB, was our best option to do that on this team, and was productive in the meagre time he actually got to play. (I just looked it up out of interest. He was on the field for a mere 65 total snaps last year, of which 48 were rushes with 6 QB pressures and a sack. By far and away the best pass rush rate per snap on the team.). He spent most of last year working on bulking up his body by 30 pounds and more for the rigors required of a 34 end. Hell, he's bigger now than the guy who went in the other trade you mentioned, Holliday. A guy many applauded for his vet. contribution in nickel packages last year. Jeremy Jarmon was primed for a real good season in this D as an effective, multi-down 34 end IMHO. He'd put in the work to add size to his speed and moves as a rusher. To let such promise go at 23 on a rebuilding team for a career average receiver who'll be 31 through this coming season is one of the worst moves we made in an otherwise very good FA on the whole for me. Even more so when it took away from a position of need; and added to one we had already assembled a pretty darn promising young corp. along with the vets. Moss and Armstrong. (In his case vet. in age, not in actual game experience.).

I'll lay good money Jarmon thrives way more in Denver under Fox than Gaffney does here.

I hope this is the VERY last time we trade away a very promising draft pick here. When do you see the top franchises like Pittsburgh, GB, Indy etc do that? They build around these core players and have years of consistent success that way. Jeremy Jarmon was primed for his chance, and we let that go. It's biting even more now Jarvis is lost for the year.

Said it at the time, and I'm saying it again now, "Terrible, TERRIBLE trade." And nothing will convince me otherwise.

Hail.

Jarmon was cut today.

Still wanna make that bet? lol :cool:

[Mercuryrising]

The local news last night listed Jarmon as "on the bubble". He may not even make the donkey's roster.

Ty Warren's injury might make it a bit more likely that he secures a spot, but he definitely isn't tearing it up out here.

Well if Jarmon gets cuts today, it certainly cements the OP's thesis.

I will say this however: Jarmon was one of those guys along with Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson and Lorenzo Alexander who every other season was being asked to bulk up for DE and then slim down for LB... I don't know which he was asked after last season, but if it was to slim down for LB then he might not be able to play his best in Denver's 4-3 as a DE.

[NewCliche21]

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones

Among the surprising names on the cut list: DL Jeremy Jarmon, WR David Anderson and S Kyle McCarthy.

/thread

[SirClintonPortis]

PostBroncos Lindsay Jones

Among the surprising names on the cut list: DL Jeremy Jarmon, WR David Anderson and S Kyle McCarthy.

/thread

So, both Vonnie Holliday and Jeremy Jarmon are looking for jobs, while Gaffney and Hightower are almost guaranteed a roster spot. That's a won trade in every sense of the concept "won trade". So, Jarmon-wanters, want some crow?

[NewCliche21]

So, both Vonnie Holliday and Jeremy Jarmon are looking for jobs, while Gaffney and Hightower are almost guaranteed a roster spot. That's a won trade in every sense of the concept "won trade". So, Jarmon-wanters, want some crow?

A little misleading.

Not only are Gaffney and Hightower on a roster, they're STARTERS.

[TSO]

So we just declare that Jarmon would not have done anythings, and thus it is so?

Why don't we see how he plays in Denver before we decide?

No one is saying Jarmon wouldn't have done anything... just that he wouldn't have on this team. Honestly, where would you put him on this team right now and in front of who?

You know what? I challenge anyone in this thread to put Jarmon on this roster, and let me know who gets cut for him. Let's hear it. There's no way around the fact that both of these trades were some of the best trades an FO can make, period.

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 01:06 PM ----------

GHH, Jarmon got cut... what do you think now?

[SirClintonPortis]

A little misleading.

Not only are Gaffney and Hightower on a roster, they're STARTERS.

IMO, Shanahan doesn't almost guarantee roster spots to players unless they have proven themselves starter material or they're quality starters in the first place.

[TSO]

While both these trades seem very positive (though 0 games played), I think the statement "just incredible" shows how bad things have been around here. These types of moves are what teams are supposed to do. Neither move is the Ricky Williams trade (that was incredible).

I disagree, it is incredible for the sole reason that we would've cut these guys in all likelihood. We did it before the rest of the NFL knew that. Do you think Arizona or Denver make the trade with us knowing full well we don't have a need for those guys at all?

[whatmeworry]

I wasn't crazy about the Jarman trade mainly because I thought Jarman had a lot of upside and have never been impressed with Gaffney but he's played decent so I'm ok with it.

The Hightower trade Shanahan ought to have been put n handcuffs and thrown in jail ....

for grand theft.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

GHH, Jarmon got cut... what do you think now?

That Fox is a bonehead and we have been given a second chance to right this terrible wrong. :pfft:

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 02:15 PM ----------

Jarmon was cut today.

Still wanna make that bet? lol :cool:

SHUT IT you! Seriously, 'SHUP! :mad: I'd do you for exploiting the large quote rule! Humph!

*Mumbles WTF does Coach Fox know with his 1-15 season's. Dude just needs a chance .....

Hail.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So, both Vonnie Holliday and Jeremy Jarmon are looking for jobs, while Gaffney and Hightower are almost guaranteed a roster spot. That's a won trade in every sense of the concept "won trade". So, Jarmon-wanters, want some crow?

Wait, I can't find anywhere where it says that Vonnie was cut by the cards. Am I missing something?

[TSO]

thesubmittedone: The Redskins made two great moves!

The rest of ES: **** you! The Redskins suck! We only make bad moves! JARMON FOR PRESIDENT!

Excellent analysis and summary. Succinct, and spot on. Well done. :pfft:

Seriously, when I make threads like these I fully expect to get piled on. How dare I be happy!

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 01:30 PM ----------

That Fox is a bonehead and we have been given a second chance to right this terrible wrong. :pfft:

lol, that would make the move even more incredible, though, wouldn't it? Imagine if Jarmon ends up back here anyway, my God, that is FO-on-FO crime!

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 01:34 PM ----------

Well if Jarmon gets cuts today, it certainly cements the OP's thesis.

I will say this however: Jarmon was one of those guys along with Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson and Lorenzo Alexander who every other season was being asked to bulk up for DE and then slim down for LB... I don't know which he was asked after last season, but if it was to slim down for LB then he might not be able to play his best in Denver's 4-3 as a DE.

He came into camp to play at DE. At the end of last season, he was told to bulk up because he just didn't cut it at OLB, so he had been bulkier for some time now. Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson and Lorenzo were never considered anything but LBs in the 3-4.

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 01:36 PM ----------

Wait, I can't find anywhere where it says that Vonnie was cut by the cards. Am I missing something?

No, you're definitely not. They'd be nuts to cut him, he's a solid player. I haven't heard anything about that, either. Still, he's not needed here, so the point remains.

[Voice_of_Reason]

No, you're definitely not. They'd be nuts to cut him, he's a solid player. I haven't heard anything about that, either. Still, he's not needed here, so the point remains.

Ok, my thoughts exactly, but I was just responding to a post that said he was looking for a job.

Point is completely valid. We have better, younger players here, and got a starting RB for at least this year, and possibly several, for an aging player.

The trades that Allen and Shanahan have made have been just about perfect, with the glaring exception of McNabb part 1.

[HailGreen28]

That Fox is a bonehead and we have been given a second chance to right this terrible wrong. :pfft:

I'm not that high on Jarmon, but it would be nice if he came back.

Just so we could be on the right end of that kind of deal. Like the Jason Taylor deal where he went right back to Miami afterwards.

All we have to do is try to pick him up on waivers, right?

[SirClintonPortis]

Wait, I can't find anywhere where it says that Vonnie was cut by the cards. Am I missing something?

Damn, I've been out of the loop ever since Holliday didn't initially report to camp or something like that.

[darrelgreenie]

No one is saying Jarmon wouldn't have done anything... just that he wouldn't have on this team. Honestly, where would you put him on this team right now and in front of who?

You know what? I challenge anyone in this thread to put Jarmon on this roster, and let me know who gets cut for him. Let's hear it.

I guess it depends on how the roster shakes out but I would put Jarmon ahead of D. Scott and Golston: DE and after: Jenkins, Carriker, Bowen.

[sportjunkie07]

I'm not that high on Jarmon, but it would be nice if he came back.

Just so we could be on the right end of that kind of deal. Like the Jason Taylor deal where he went right back to Miami afterwards.

All we have to do is try to pick him up on waivers, right?

boy did we get worked on that one.

[Chump Bailey]

That Fox is a bonehead and we have been given a second chance to right this terrible wrong

I think it's because they were trying to do what the Rams did with Carriker - play him inside. Neither guy is a 43 DT. I still think Jarmon is capable of playing 34 DE.