TSO Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 C'mon you're better then that.We both know that teams make mistakes with playing time. Take Kemo vs Bryant at NT: Can you honestly say that Kemo was a better NT then Bryant? Yet Bryant didn't see big minutes nor start til the final 3 games of the season. I could go over a litany of personnel mistakes but I accept that every team makes mistakes. I'm not making a negative value judgement of the entire FO if I point out that Bryant should have been player over Kemo am I? No, I'm just pointing out that in they made a mistake in that situation. Golston maybe a legitmate starter in a 43 but as 3-4 DE he was just a guy. He was getting pushed back, couldn't set the edge wasn't effective in 2-gap and couldn't generate a pass rush. Holliday and Jarmon and Scott were our best pass rushing DE and we barely found out that Jarmon or Scott could play til the last 3 weeks and Holliday only say an uptick in playing time towards the end of the season. I think any of the 3 deserved and would have been better then Golston. I'm not just spit balling I kept a close watch on the defense especially in the final 3 games. I applaud the thread you made before about (Jackson, Scott etc) because I made similar observations about those players last year in the final 3 games. Even highlighted their play with screen cap images, so I have been paying attention. We just disagree. -Cheers I get what you're saying, but when you use the example of Bryant/Kemo it fails on one account: practice. We're not seeing what's going on in practice as to why Bryant didn't get in until the end of last season. Granted, he played better, but that doesn't mean he would have if he was inserted before that. Shanahan specifically said last season that he was not just inserting young guys for the sake of it, that they had to prove they're worthy first in practice and then they'll go in. That's why you still saw Roydell Williams late last season as well as Rabach. The younger guys were not proving they could do it better than those guys consistently in practice, but once they did, they went in. It was that simple. I'll take Shanny's word for it, but I understand if you take it as coach speak. Nice discussion as usual, greenie, take care! ---------- Post added September-4th-2011 at 12:15 PM ---------- That I'll give you tso.You can indeed only play/ beat what's in front of you. Your still wrong mind, but I like you anyway's. Hail. Well, if you like me than this thread's mission has been accomplished! Close it mods. :pfft: Oh, and one quick side note... I think a lot of you are arguing from the standpoint that Jenkins is done for the year. If he wasn't, and Jarmon makes the team, Golston or Scott get cut. I just can't believe you guys would be willing to part ways with either of those guys (Scott has played really well and Golston is a true Redskin by every definition of the term, and he's not old either) over Jarmon just because of his youth and ability to rush the passer (which he only showed mainly at DE in a 4-3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Well, if you like me then this thread's mission has been accomplished! Close it mods. :pfft: Why you devious lil' ******! I try to be nice and **** and this is what it get's me. Played by a Virginian. (And why does that sound SO wrong in my ickle' head?) HUMPH! I hate Sundays. In the words of a lil' fat Colorado dude: "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" :mad: Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyandSam Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 For all the Jarmon lovers out there -- He couldn't make the starting lineup for the Redskins as a DT, DE or OLB He was traded to the Broncos because he would have been cut here. The Broncos cut him No NFL team picked him up off waivers Whatever you Jarmon lovers saw in him, was not visible to any other NFL GM or coach. I trust the judgement of the NFL GMs and coaches before our resident junior GMs. Jarmon, as Bryant, were never very good players. They just looked decent at times because the talent around them on the Redskins was soooo bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Why you devious lil' ******!I try to be nice and **** and this is what it get's me. Played by a Virginian. (And why does that sound SO wrong in my ickle' head?) HUMPH! I hate Sundays. In the words of a lil' fat Colorado dude: "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" :mad: Hail. You tank-desiring... ahem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louskins9193 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Its a bit premature to make any conclusions on any of the Shanny Allen trades thus far, 4 pre-season games don't mean squat. You have to wait till we're in the middle of the season at the very earliest to start making judgments calls on last off season trades and FA pick-ups. One thing is for sure the Skins have improved this off season, the question is how much have they improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Its a bit premature to make any conclusions on any of the Shanny Allen trades thus far, 4 pre-season games don't mean squat. You have to wait till we're in the middle of the season at the very earliest to start making judgments calls on last off season trades and FA pick-ups. One thing is for sure the Skins have improved this off season, the question is how much have they improved. It's not premature at all. My main contentions are two: That the two players we acquired will be productive members of the Redskins and that we essentially got them for free since the players we traded them for would've found their way off this team anyway (not only due to how good they are, but where they fit on this team). Do you think those two points are false? If not, how is it premature to say they were excellent trades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louskins9193 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It's not premature at all. My main contentions are two: That the two players we acquired will be productive members of the Redskins and that we essentially got them for free since the players we traded them for would've found their way off this team anyway (not only due to how good they are, but where they fit on this team). Do you think those two points are false? If not, how is it premature to say they were excellent trades? What are you basing your conclusions on? we haven't played a single game yet so nobody has produced anything. You have to wait till these guys produce in the regular season to say they were"excellent" trades just because we got better guys that we traded away is not enough in my book. Does it look promising after four pre-season games yes, I will give you that, both these guys look like they're going to help the team but anything can happen during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomthePasserby Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I try to be nice and **** and this is what it get's me. Played by a Virginian. (And why does that sound SO wrong in my ickle' head?) Haha, "played by a Virginian." I like it. It could catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Both of those trades were beneficial to this Redskin team. Hightower for Holliday was definitely a steal. And Jarmon for Gaffney was a good deal. The Broncos got a pretty decent DE with a lot of potential while the Redskins got a veteran WR who is productive and proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 What are you basing your conclusions on? we haven't played a single game yet so nobody has produced anything. You have to wait till these guys produce in the regular season to say they were"excellent" trades just because we got better guys that we traded away is not enough in my book. Does it look promising after four pre-season games yes, I will give you that, both these guys look like they're going to help the team but anything can happen during the season. Where are these guys on our depth chart? Did they just happen upon those spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Both of those trades were beneficial to this Redskin team. Hightower for Holliday was definitely a steal. And Jarmon for Gaffney was a good deal. The Broncos got a pretty decent DE with a lot of potential while the Redskins got a veteran WR who is productive and proven. Have you been watching the news? The Broncos got squat. The Redskins are the only ones who ended up with anything from that trade. ---------- Post added September-4th-2011 at 11:27 PM ---------- What are you basing your conclusions on? we haven't played a single game yet so nobody has produced anything. You have to wait till these guys produce in the regular season to say they were"excellent" trades just because we got better guys that we traded away is not enough in my book. Does it look promising after four pre-season games yes, I will give you that, both these guys look like they're going to help the team but anything can happen during the season. In your mind, is there any way possible for the Redskins to NOT come out ahead huge in the Gaffney/Jarmon trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Both of those trades were beneficial to this Redskin team. Hightower for Holliday was definitely a steal. And Jarmon for Gaffney was a good deal. The Broncos got a pretty decent DE with a lot of potential while the Redskins got a veteran WR who is productive and proven. Jarmon got cut, he's a free agent now. We fleeced the Broncos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 When I look at these trades after 1 pre-season, the phrase rape and pilledge (spelling?) come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Gaffney was a steal. In fairness to Jarmon though, he is a DE who was asked by the Broncos to play tackle because of other injuries. He tried to make it work, but couldn't. Maybe if he were a better DE, they wouldn't have asked him to move, but some of it was based on the injury situation to Ty Warren and Marcus Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidGQ Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 When I look at these trades after 1 pre-season, the phrase rape and pilledge (spelling?) come to mind. pillage I am actually looking forward to more trades from Mike and Bruce because I know we will be on the better end. ---------- Post added September-5th-2011 at 11:19 AM ---------- Gaffney was a steal.In fairness to Jarmon though, he is a DE who was asked by the Broncos to play tackle because of other injuries. He tried to make it work, but couldn't. Maybe if he were a better DE, they wouldn't have asked him to move, but some of it was based on the injury situation to Ty Warren and Marcus Thomas. I like Jarmon alot but he doesn't fit in our scheme. He struggled last year so I do understand why we traded him. I am still shock we were able to get Gafney for him. Now other teams have to worry more than Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngrubb8242 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I whole heartedly agree with you on the THT trade. But I TOTALLY disagree on the Gafney one.I've never understood this belief that Jarmon couldn't transition to a 34 end. If you want to run an elite 34 D, it's imperative you have linemen that can rush the opposing QB. Doing that opens up so many more options with the guys behind, your LB's and safeties. (Not that I'm convinced Coach Haslett is that inventive to ever do that anyways, but that's another story.). Jeremy Jarmon, since Orakpo and the rookie Kerrigan have been moved to OLB, was our best option to do that on this team, and was productive in the meagre time he actually got to play. (I just looked it up out of interest. He was on the field for a mere 65 total snaps last year, of which 48 were rushes with 6 QB pressures and a sack. By far and away the best pass rush rate per snap on the team.). He spent most of last year working on bulking up his body by 30 pounds and more for the rigors required of a 34 end. Hell, he's bigger now than the guy who went in the other trade you mentioned, Holliday. A guy many applauded for his vet. contribution in nickel packages last year. Jeremy Jarmon was primed for a real good season in this D as an effective, multi-down 34 end IMHO. He'd put in the work to add size to his speed and moves as a rusher. To let such promise go at 23 on a rebuilding team for a career average receiver who'll be 31 through this coming season is one of the worst moves we made in an otherwise very good FA on the whole for me. Even more so when it took away from a position of need; and added to one we had already assembled a pretty darn promising young corp. along with the vets. Moss and Armstrong. (In his case vet. in age, not in actual game experience.). I'll lay good money Jarmon thrives way more in Denver under Fox than Gaffney does here. I hope this is the VERY last time we trade away a very promising draft pick here. When do you see the top franchises like Pittsburgh, GB, Indy etc do that? They build around these core players and have years of consistent success that way. Jeremy Jarmon was primed for his chance, and we let that go. It's biting even more now Jarvis is lost for the year. Said it at the time, and I'm saying it again now, "Terrible, TERRIBLE trade." And nothing will convince me otherwise. Hail. You'll lay good money that Jarmon thrives? He got cut...he must be well on his way to thriving These were both good trades. Gaffney is very underappreciated. By the time this season is over you are going to be singing a diffrent tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Have any of those opposed to my, arguably, early "hindsighting" changed your minds? :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Nope. He might be contributing, and doubtless will all year being the vet., but I still wouldn't of made the Gaffney trade with the long term in mind. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Nope. He might be contributing, and doubtless will all year being the vet., but I still wouldn't of made the Gaffney trade with the long term in mind. Hail. You're a very stubborn guy I liked Jarmon too and thought he flashed very nicely as a rook before his injury, but given that he was cut and Gaffney is contributing more than solidly... I think it's hard to argue that we won the trade. Certainly, Denver didn't win the trade they got zero from it and lost a productive guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 You're a very stubborn guy I liked Jarmon too and thought he flashed very nicely as a rook before his injury, but given that he was cut and Gaffney is contributing more than solidly... I think it's hard to argue that we won the trade. Certainly, Denver didn't win the trade they got zero from it and lost a productive guy. Meh, more I believe in my convictions. :cool: No question we won the trade. One guys starting, and contributing. The others currently out of the league. (Though the murmurings in Denver are that they regret trying to turn him into a DT and him becoming a numbers cut FWIW.). But I still wouldn't of made it on a rebuilding team. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Meh, more I believe in my convictions. :cool:No question we won the trade. One guys starting, and contributing. The others currently out of the league. (Though the murmurings in Denver are that they regret trying to turn him into a DT and him becoming a numbers cut FWIW.). But I still wouldn't of made it on a rebuilding team. Hail. I will say that when we first drafted him I had visions of him and Orakpo manning both edges on the defensive line and becoming modern day Mann and Manley in a 4-3 defense. Not sure what exactly happened to him, but the kid looked really good out of the supplemental draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 So we get Gafney. We lose a DE to injury. Jarmon is available if we want him. But sending him out to Denver was not a good move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUSkins24 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 So far I'm lovin' these trades, submittedone. Lets hope it stays this way. I really didn't expect much from Gaffney when we initially made the trade, but it looks like the Florida connect is paying dividends. And I think we're all pumped about our potential 1,000 yarder. Fantastic trades. FO looks like they get it for once. I'll drink the kool-aid. :helmet: HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Both great trades. Without question. Hightower will need a new contract for next season, but I can't see him wanting to move anywhere else. This is too good a situation for him to walk away from. And Gaffney will play his contract through 2012, then we can assess how the younger guys at WR look before making a further commitment on him. Its all win for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Meh, more I believe in my convictions. :cool:No question we won the trade. One guys starting, and contributing. The others currently out of the league. (Though the murmurings in Denver are that they regret trying to turn him into a DT and him becoming a numbers cut FWIW.). But I still wouldn't of made it on a rebuilding team. Hail. Why not? THey have about four young recievers to go with Gaffney. And multiple young DL. And since he was cut they could bring him back if they thought he could do something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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