The case for Brandon Banks., the 'Mike Nelms' of the new millennium.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

He was also injured last year. Everyone can have bad seasons. He still has the speed and elusiveness that make him special. As he showcased last night.

Just not 'special' enough to warrant a specific return slot when we have other guys that can get that job done AND do their own jobs to boot.

But meh, we'll know what the Coach thinks tomorrow.

Hail.

[HogNose]

Agree 100% GHH. And a great mention of Mike Nelms--one of the best ever. On a related note, I'm shocked that there is so little video footage of Nelms available on the internet to educate the younger fans.

I know....I've been searching for video of Nelms and only found this one. Nelms footage starts at 1:15

Man I loved watching Nelms when I was a kid. I remember him only fair catching as a last resort but usually he would let the ball drop in his hands and take off. When we played football in the backyard I would act like I was Nelms on our "kickoff" returns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmfsEecwrA

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

WOW HN. I NEVER knew Coach Levy was on our staff back in the '70's.

Thanks for that, and the video.

Hail.

[Skinsfan4life83]

Just not 'special' enough to warrant a specific return slot when we have other guys that can get that job done AND do their own jobs to boot.

But meh, we'll know what the Coach thinks tomorrow.

Hail.

Not special enough in your opinion is what you should have said.

But we shall indeed know what coach thinks soon enough. Either way I'm excited about this team. Moreso than I have been in years.

HTTR.

[pjfootballer]

WOW HN. I NEVER knew Coach Levy was on our staff back in the '70's.

Thanks for that, and the video.

Hail.

Very first official "Special Teams" coach.

I loved Nelms. He had the speed, the moves and the toughness. Better than Brian Mitchell IMO.

[Bang]

He was also injured last year. Everyone can have bad seasons. He still has the speed and elusiveness that make him special. As he showcased last night. Also you keep saying one trick pony which he obviously is not if used correctly.

You can't 'correctly' use a 150 pound player.

There are only a very small handful of plays he can run.

He is not an offensive player. he cannot handle the rigors of the game from the wide receiver position.

His preseason proved it. terrible hands, badly inconsistent, shoved around and dominated easily by defensive backs.

"properly" using a player means that if you keep a guy with such a small skillset than you are improperly using your roster.

he had some nice returns last night.. in the 4th preseason game, against scrubs trying to make the Bucs. Don't get too enamored with it.

Banks is fast. But he isn't much else.

~Bang

[PerryMason]

If we didn't have Robinson, then I'd agree. However he and Paul could EASILY put up the same numbers, if not more. Little bit bigger, but run the same speeds, plus they can play WR. Cut Banks, make one of them a returner.

Except they haven't shown didley poo at returner. Banks on the other hand returned a punt for a TD this preseason.....for the 3rd straight year.

[Skinsfan4life83]

You can't 'correctly' use a 150 pound player.

There are only a very small handful of plays he can run.

He is not an offensive player. he cannot handle the rigors of the game from the wide receiver position.

His preseason proved it. terrible hands, badly inconsistent, shoved around easily by defensive backs.

"properly" using a player means that if you keep a guy with such a small skillset than you are improperly using your roster.

he had some nice returns last night.. in the 4th preseason game, against scrubs trying to make the Bucs. Don't get too enamored with it.

Banks is fast. But he isn't much else.

~Bang

Still don't agree with you at all. As a matter of fact I'm gonna say you are flat out wrong. The guy can be used in a number of ways.

First and foremost he is a kick/punt returner. Now a lot of you folks seem to think that position has very little value. Imo you are wrong. A TD return can spark a team, give them new energy. We've seen it happen a thousand times before with different returners. Banks is far and away the best returner on this roster. No one comes close.

Secondly. He can be a role/gadget player. As he proved last night and before. End arounds. Wide reciever screens. Draws. This guy is a threat to break a big play every time he touches the ball.

Lastly. I would rather keep a multifaceted player like Banks than a Briscoe, who doesn't play teams, Robinson, who aside from one good game against the bears scrubs hasn't shown he can be anything other than a no. 5 or no. 6 wideout. And honestly how much playing time do 5's or 6's see?

My point is Banks can contribute in many ways. More than an average 5th or 6th guy can. His size doesn't deter him and us only brought up by people trying to downplay his value.

If coach decides to cut him I'm cool with that. Shanny knows much more than I do. But I thinly we will be losing a great potential weapon.

---------- Post added August-30th-2012 at 08:38 AM ----------

Except they haven't shown didley poo at returner. Banks on the other hand returned a punt for a TD this preseason.....for the 3rd straight year.

My point exactly.

[Bang]

Still don't agree with you at all. As a matter of fact I'm gonna say you are flat out wrong. The guy can be used in a number of ways.

First and foremost he is a kick/punt returner. Now a lot of you folks seem to think that position has very little value. Imo you are wrong. A TD return can spark a team, give them new energy. We've seen it happen a thousand times before with different returners. Banks is far and away the best returner on this roster. No one comes close.

Secondly. He can be a role/gadget player. As he proved last night and before. End arounds. Wide reciever screens. Draws. This guy is a threat to break a big play every time he touches the ball.

Lastly. I would rather keep a multifaceted player like Banks than a Briscoe, who doesn't play teams, Robinson, who aside from one good game against the bears scrubs hasn't shown he can be anything other than a no. 5 or no. 6 wideout. And honestly how much playing time do 5's or 6's see?

My point is Banks can contribute in many ways. More than an average 5th or 6th guy can. His size doesn't deter him and us only brought up by people trying to downplay his value.

If coach decides to cut him I'm cool with that. Shanny knows much more than I do. But I thinly we will be losing a great potential weapon.

---------- Post added August-30th-2012 at 08:38 AM ----------

My point exactly.

Fair enough, agreement isn't necessary for a good discussion.

I do agree he's a good returner.. he gets decent yardage.

I just don't think that;'s enough. What he did last night was against guys who will be looking for a job on Monday. if he is good on gadget plays, it's not enough, you can't waste a roster spot on a guy who can do so few things that

a/ when he comes in the game it will make for obvious keys.

and B/ can only be done situationally, occasionally.

Plays like that (and returns, too) are preicated more on blocks than on individual skill as a runner. With a hole he can scoot. On one of those gadgets if the blocks get out in front of him, he can make a play.

But again, if that is one of the few plays he can make, the defense is much more aware of what is coming in the regular season. When he enters the game, it's either as a decoy, or to run one of maybe 3 plays.... because he won't be making any plays beyond the line of scrimmage on a pass.

the yards he gets when he gets the blocks, i have to think can also be gotten by a guy who can be used on plays downfield.

As the coach said,, no one is making it solely on returns.. and if he holds to that, i don't see Banks making it.

course if he does. I'm OK with that. I'm not goingto pitch a fit if we keep a guy who can flip the field.

~Bang

[SWFLSkins]

I don't know where the shocker comes from, Banks is going to be cut. Shanahan already said he needed to contribute as a WR and his weaknesses in that area were exposed this pre-season. Hey kudos, he gave it his best shot, I wish him well. The specialist kick returner's impact is the primary reason he is not needed.

[Brokenstriker]

call me crazy then ... I'd cut Banks. He's got speed, he's got NFL toughness per pound and he can make a lot of yards happen ... but he also makes bad decisions taking the kickoff out of the end-zone and failing to get to the 20. Some stats in football are pretty reliable especially the expected points per possession as a function of where the drive starts. Its pretty long odds to score starting at your own 20 and its gets significantly worse if you start inside your 20 ... and Banks gets you those way too often. Bad decision making and east-west running, fumbles (you only mentioned lost fumbles ... he puts the ball on the ground too much) ... don't like it. He really doesn't offer starting capabilities on offense or for that matter real back-up capabilities. Yeah I know he can breakout on occasion and run like the energizer bunny but the expectations on any given play aren't that good on average.

[Renegade7]

My dad and I were having this debate last night, because he's on the fence of cutting him, and I really want to keep him. Shanny wants him to be able to contribute on offense now, and it's been tough watching him drop so many passes this preseason. But like was noted, this is the third preseason in a row he's run back a punt for a TD. When he finally caught that bomb towards the end of the Tampa game, I was really happy for him. Another thing was watching him get the 40 yard run on the end around on the end around in the same game (all he has to do is get around the corner or find a crease and its over, you can see that).

You throw in the fact that he threw a TD pass last year, he shouldn't have to be a slot reciever or #1 target to contribute on offense. And I know those special team yards don't show up on the stat box, but they matter and he's earned that respect on that front. If he stays a consistent threat on special teams and can give us one or two big plays a game in the regular season, that's an e-factor that can mean the difference going up against teams that are just as good if not better then us. If we keep 7 WRs, he'll be one of them. Austin, Armstrong, a lot of guys that would possibly take his spot as the 6th or 7th guy wouldn't be nearly as productive as him all around, and may be gone from the team within a year or two...

People need to recognise his role on this team and also keep in mind this is only his 3rd season. He will get better...

[Spaceman Spiff]

I can't name one team that keeps a gadget guy like Banks on their roster as strictly a return guy and nothing else.

Hester might not be the best receiver but at least he provides SOMETHING.

There's no room for Banks on this team. Especially when half the kickoffs fly out of the endzone these days. Banks has 1 kick return for a td in his career, 3 years ago.

If he actually produced like Devin Hester, I'd be signing a different tune. But this guy can't hack it at a WR at all.

[Brokenstriker]

btw the comparison to Nelms is a minor sin ... Banks isn't qualified to carry Nelms' jockstrap no matter what the averages say. Nelms caught everything, no fair catches. Nelms got positive yards on virtually every punt return ... like Brian Mitchell he ran down field to start his punt returns (Banks runs to the sidelines ... or worse towards his own end zone to start his returns). Like comparing money in the bank to a scratch off ticket ... could be a winner ... usually its just a waste of money but on average it looks good.

[HogNose]

WOW HN. I NEVER knew Coach Levy was on our staff back in the '70's.

Thanks for that, and the video.

Hail.

Yeah I didn't know it either until my Dad mentioned it during the '92 SB. Maybe Levy can replace Danny Smith.

[Airyx]

And this talk about "well, he doesn't contribute at wide out so you can't find a spot for a one dimensional guy." Aside from the fact his lightening speed has to be respected by opposing D coordinators the packages he is in, I have one name for you. Arguably the greatest, most exciting return man we've ever had. Mike Nelms. For 5 years, from 1980 through 1984, Nelms, a DB, was almost exclusively a kick returner. And that was at a time when the active roster limit was 45 until 1981; upped to 49 through 1984.

A time when they had 8 and 4 less bodies on the active roster, yet the great Bobby Beathard and Coach Gibbs found a place for a guy who's job was almost exclusively returning kicks. A guy who was as exciting a threat to take it to the house most every time he had the ball in his hands like Banks, but without Banks breakneck speed.

Hail.

I'd like to see little Brandon continue to be the return guy, only because he is so much fun to watch. Nelms also, was a blast to watch, mostly because of the way his arms and legs would flail around has he spun and twisted is way through traffic.

Your point about the roster size at that time doesn't really hold water because the rules around roster changes and IR were such that you could keep an almost unlimited number of players on your payroll even though only 45 were on the active roster. You can't do that now. That was one of the things that frustrated Joe Gibbs during his return.

That end-around last night made me think about running the triple option with RG3, Banks, and Helu. How much fun would that be?

[brasi]

Cut Banks and bring Cooley back. Ridiculous that this guy is on the team and 47 is not.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

'K, so the lil' dude has fought his way onto the roster again.

I still think the spot could of better served elsewhere, but I'm not too bothered that he's survived.

Brandon, go out and show me the OP I wrote prior to last season, is pertinent this.

Hail.

[Skinsfan4life83]

Cut Banks and bring Cooley back. Ridiculous that this guy is on the team and 47 is not.

Yeah because a aging tight end whose slow as molasses and a number three at best has more value than a potentially elite return guy who can flip field position in a heartbeat, and has a chance to score whenever he touches the ball. Did I mention he is fast? Like super fast? And much younger than Cooley?

Point is he beat out all the people that have been cut for his roster spot, at least in the coaches mind, not yours maybe but coach is the only opinion that matters. He has more value than T. Austin, AA, Cooley etc. He deserves his spot. Stop hating. Sit back and let the fireworks begin. HTTR.

[maskedsuperstar]

I can't name one team that keeps a gadget guy like Banks on their roster as strictly a return guy and nothing else.

Hester might not be the best receiver but at least he provides SOMETHING.

There's no room for Banks on this team. Especially when half the kickoffs fly out of the endzone these days. Banks has 1 kick return for a td in his career, 3 years ago.

If he actually produced like Devin Hester, I'd be signing a different tune. But this guy can't hack it at a WR at all.

Trindon Holliday of the Texans!!! World class speed and has been blowing up in the preseason. Oh yeah, Banks is bigger than he is. Lord! Give it a rest. There is no player that can return kicks like Banks can. Don't care what Shanny said. It was more for motivation.

[mojo]

Well, since he made the team, I hope Kyle uses more imagination in what packages he's brought in. He certainly won't be any help at receiver but hopefully some gadget/option plays can prove to be effective.

[sempre_victrix]

I like Banks, glad he made the team. I loved me some Mike Nelms, he was the bravest/craziest returner I ever saw. I can only remember one fair catch.

But, for the most part, he was a returner. Sure, he was listed as a DB, but struggle to remember him playing the position. He also played on the ST coverage, which Banks cannot do.

Hopefully, Smith can get his blocking squared away and Banks can take a few to the house this year. If he can get loose into the secondary, he will be tough to cover in 3 & 4 WR sets.

Between Banks and Doughty making the team, Bang's head must be ready to explode.

[Skinsfan4life83]

You can't 'correctly' use a 150 pound player.

There are only a very small handful of plays he can run.

He is not an offensive player. he cannot handle the rigors of the game from the wide receiver position.

His preseason proved it. terrible hands, badly inconsistent, shoved around and dominated easily by defensive backs.

"properly" using a player means that if you keep a guy with such a small skillset than you are improperly using your roster.

he had some nice returns last night.. in the 4th preseason game, against scrubs trying to make the Bucs. Don't get too enamored with it.

Banks is fast. But he isn't much else.

~Bang

Well looks like Shanahan figured Banks was worth keeping on the roster this year. I guess he figures if he uses him CORRECTLY(I.e. Screens, end arounds, gadget plays) he will continue to be an explosive player for us. Not to mention if guys can quit getting stupid holding penalties maybe he can finally run a few kicks back without a penalty getting it called back.

[Lavarleap56]

Trindon Holliday of the Texans!!! World class speed and has been blowing up in the preseason. Oh yeah, Banks is bigger than he is. Lord! Give it a rest. There is no player that can return kicks like Banks can. Don't care what Shanny said. It was more for motivation.

Holiday out weights Banks by 15 lbs but yes he has been having a good preseason. Banks has nice skill set for a return specialist but its a huge stretch to say " no player can return kicks like him'. Specialist come and go but hopefully the fact he barely made the team motivates him to be a better returner than he has been recently. Speed is always nice but so is ball security and getting up field asap. As far as Banks on offense I would not expect too much.

[Mr. Sinister]

Holiday out weights Banks by 15 lbs but yes he has been having a good preseason. Banks has nice skill set for a return specialist but its a huge stretch to say " no player can return kicks like him'. Specialist come and go but hopefully the fact he barely made the team motivates him to be a better returner than he has been recently. Speed is always nice but so is ball security and getting up field asap. As far as Banks on offense I would not expect too much.

I'm hoping that he could find a way to at LEAST be productive in the screen game/misdirection (though the fact that he is even in the game would alert the defenders to be on the lookout for plays like that). But yeah, I'm hot expecting too much on offense from him either.