The case for Brandon Banks., the 'Mike Nelms' of the new millennium.

[Lavarleap56]

Like who? I've seen the complete opposite, LL. Mike will cut anyone.

Really? I will take the easy one first in Jammal Brown.

[TSO]

well, he does seem almost emotionally invested in Kory Lichtensteiger to me.

With good reason. He put him in over Dockery when everyone wanted to kill him for it and who ended up right? Korey was, perhaps, our best lineman last year before he got hurt.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 01:38 PM ----------

Really? I will take the easy one first in Jammal Brown.

Didn't we want to get another RT in FA which was ruined due to the cap penalty?

You sound bitter, man.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I agree with LL on this point.

I don't think he should have made the team. He had nine targets in a pre-season game and failed on almost all of them.

Kickoff returns have been dramatically reduced with the new rules and I personally think he's a fumble liability in punt returns because he could get lit up so easily.

If he ever does anything that makes a difference in a real game that doesnt get called back, maybe i'll change my mind.

If I were the HC, I would cut him right now and sign Steve Slayton.

[MrJL]

with the cap penalty we basically can't afford Brown to just get cut.

[Lavarleap56]

With good reason. He put him in over Dockery when everyone wanted to kill him for it and who ended up right? Korey was, perhaps, our best lineman last year before he got hurt.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 01:38 PM ----------

Didn't we want to get another RT in FA which was ruined due to the cap penalty?

You sound bitter, man.

Bitter? nope never that. If Banks gets his game together and actually helps this team this season then that is great. I just find it funny with all the people over valuing him right now and making claims that are over the top in regards to him being elite etc. Until he steps on that field in a regular season game this season and shows improvement then he is what he is based on 2 years of history. Im not killing the guy im just objective and like I posted earlier the ball security and other things are concerning.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 07:46 PM ----------

with the cap penalty we basically can't afford Brown to just get cut.

We can and he will probably be gone in week 6 depending on our oline health.

[darrelgreenie]

He’s done a good job throughout training camp,” Shanahan said. “He proved that he can play at the wide receiver position. And the one thing about Brandon, he can make plays. Like we ran him around on a reverse and not many people can make a corner miss like that and get a 40-something yard gain. And if you have to put him in the backfield, you can run him as a tailback because he has such great quickness. He’s a guy that’s a playmaker, and he’s proved that since he’s been here. We’re going to find ways to get him the football.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/09/02/mike-shanahan-redskins-need-to-get-brandon-banks-the-ball-more/

[Est.1974]

with the cap penalty we basically can't afford Brown to just get cut.

We must be saving on Cooley to cover that.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 08:52 PM ----------

We can and he will probably be gone in week 6 depending on our oline health.

Do you think Compton is in their plans to promote from the PS at that point..

[Lavarleap56]

I agree with LL on this point.

I don't think he should have made the team. He had nine targets in a pre-season game and failed on almost all of them.

Kickoff returns have been dramatically reduced with the new rules and I personally think he's a fumble liability in punt returns because he could get lit up so easily.

If he ever does anything that makes a difference in a real game that doesnt get called back, maybe i'll change my mind.

If I were the HC, I would cut him right now and sign Steve Slayton.

And I think all of that is a very rational thought process based in reality. Im lost at everyone throwing around all this praise for Banks when he has not really earned it to this point. Banks Is either going to be what he has always been since he's been here or improve so he won't always be on the bubble going into every training camp. I understand everyone has a different view on things and normally fans overvalue their own players.

[TSO]

Bitter? nope never that. If Banks gets his game together and actually helps this team this season then that is great. I just find it funny with all the people over valuing him right now and making claims that are over the top in regards to him being elite etc. Until he steps on that field in a regular season game this season and shows improvement then he is what he is based on 2 years of history. Im not killing the guy im just objective and like I posted earlier the ball security and other things are concerning.

But, honestly LL, I don't see that many saying he's elite. He has elite speed... I've read that, but I haven't really read what you're saying from anyone else. If it's there, it's gotta be rare cuz I'm an ES addict, lol.

I totally thought Banks was going to get cut this year before training camp got started as well. I understand why you guys all felt he should, too. But he did do something this preseason. It's undeniable he looked a lot better than he was last year. That's not saying anything more than just that. Like I said, other players may end up developing to the point where he gets cut anyway... but, I just don't see why you think anyone deserved a spot right now over him.

And I certainly don't believe Mike is just "stuck" on him like you insinuated. If Mike is "stuck" on someone there's usually a good reason for it. Mike, at this point, deserves our trust considering he's parted ways with guys that so many wanted to kill him for (Haynesworth at first when there were still some on his side and Dockery, heck Chris Cooley now and even Santana Moss was basically told to shape up or ship out) as well as guys he brought in himself (McNabb, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Gaffney, Hightower, Torain, etc...). If anything, he's shown he will NOT get "stuck" on someone to make him look good or anything, so if he is stuck on someone, LL, how can you say it's for any other reason than a good one?

Maybe he's stuck on Brown and Banks because those guys just might be better than we all think? Actually, I think Brown is an awful example, though, since we've tried to replace him and told him he better shape up as well this offseason. Cap penalty was the culprit there. But, yeah, maybe Mike thinks Banks can be something more and is willing to give it a go since, if he does pan out, he might just be a game-changer for us. If not, we've got other guys we're hoping can be just that anyway and he'll get cut so what's the big deal?

What's not rational and reality-based about that? :pfft:

[Lavarleap56]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/09/02/mike-shanahan-redskins-need-to-get-brandon-banks-the-ball-more/

Outside of the first week of camp he was average by all accounts. If he was good all camp it would not have leaked out friday through some of the beat guys that his performance against Tamps Bay got him on the roster according to sources. Offensive coaches also did not want to keep him on the roster if they were only going to keep 6 WRs as well and the debate was a interesting one Thursday night into Friday from what I hear. I hope he plays better but we have seen all of the tricks with Banks before. 2010 he lined up as a RB a few times, we have used him on WR screens, reverses, reverse pass etc. I think if he was a actual threat at WR then the those gadget plays would work better.

[GaryGreenMonk]

And I think all of that is a very rational thought process based in reality. Im lost at everyone throwing around all this praise for Banks when he has not really earned it to this point. Banks Is either going to be what he has always been since he's been here or improve so he won't always be on the bubble going into every training camp. I understand everyone has a different view on things and normally fans overvalue their own players.

I wasn't terribly upset we kept him because I agreed with most of the cuts, so I didn't see someone that didn't make it that should have. Except maybe Kehl.

But, i do think there are players we could use like Slayton that I would rather have than Banks.

[Lavarleap56]

But, honestly LL, I don't see that many saying he's elite. He has elite speed... I've read that, but I haven't really read what you're saying from anyone else. If it's there, it's gotta be rare cuz I'm an ES addict, lol.

I totally thought Banks was going to get cut this year before training camp got started as well. I understand why you guys all felt he should, too. But he did do something this preseason. It's undeniable he looked a lot better than he was last year. That's not saying anything more than just that. Like I said, other players may end up developing to the point where he gets cut anyway... but, I just don't see why you think anyone deserved a spot right now over him.

And I certainly don't believe Mike is just "stuck" on him like you insinuated. If Mike is "stuck" on someone there's usually a good reason for it. Mike, at this point, deserves our trust considering he's parted ways with guys that so many wanted to kill him for (Haynesworth at first when there were still some on his side and Dockery, heck Chris Cooley now and even Santana Moss was basically told to shape up or ship out) as well as guys he brought in himself (McNabb, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Gaffney, Hightower, Torain, etc...). If anything, he's shown he will NOT get "stuck" on someone to make him look good or anything, so if he is stuck on someone, LL, how can you say it's for any other reason than a good one?

Maybe he's stuck on Brown and Banks because those guys just might be better than we all think? Actually, I think Brown is an awful example, though, since we've tried to replace him and told him he better shape up as well this offseason. Cap penalty was the culprit there. But, yeah, maybe Mike thinks Banks can be something more and is willing to give it a go since, if he does pan out, he might just be a game-changer for us. If not, we've got other guys we're hoping can be just that anyway and he'll get cut so what's the big deal?

What's not rational and reality-based about that? :pfft:

Banks is the same as last year just performing against 2nd,3rd, and 4th string talent. I have not been critical and don't plan on being but he does get infatuated with certain guys for whatever reason and im not saying he keeps guys just to look good because that's not the case. Shanny had a love affair with Anthony Aldridge for awhile as well which never worked out 3 or 4 different times he tried to make it work. Based on what J.Brown has shown over two years I would say it is tough to think all the sudden he will turn it around and become a dependable RT.We did sink money into Brown because we almost had to but that still doesn't make it a wise decision. Im on board with Shanny but that does not mean I can't be critical of moves that are strange. I mean Banks fumbled the ball on returns in half of our games last season and that is alarming imo.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 08:28 PM ----------

I wasn't terribly upset we kept him because I agreed with most of the cuts, so I didn't see someone that didn't make it that should have. Except maybe Kehl.

But, i do think there are players we could use like Slayton that I would rather have than Banks.

Yeah Im not upset about it either but think we have guys that can do that job. I would of rather Crawford returned punts and Robinson return kickoffs imo.

[darrelgreenie]

Outside of the first week of camp he was average by all accounts. If he was good all camp it would not have leaked out friday through some of the beat guys that his performance against Tamps Bay got him on the roster according to sources. Offensive coaches also did not want to keep him on the roster if they were only going to keep 6 WRs as well and the debate was a interesting one Thursday night into Friday from what I hear. I hope he plays better but we have seen all of the tricks with Banks before. 2010 he lined up as a RB a few times, we have used him on WR screens, reverses, reverse pass etc. I think if he was a actual threat at WR then the those gadget plays would work better.

I don't doubt what you've heard, and I respect your opinions.

But, you know me LL I'm not big on the veracity of 'leaks' etc. so that's neither here nor there with me.

Heck, you know that I know that Mike Shanahan will literally say anything, so even that quote from him is *meh* to me.

But, some of the main voices in this argument usually stand by Mike's word as gospel.

And that's why I posted, I would rather day dream about the expansion of read option concepts and the pistol formation then argue over a good player that's on the team.

But on Banks:

As a couch bound fan all I can assess is the TV feed and the occasional metrics if they apply.

To me Bank's is a good, not great KR/PR, and you don't cut good KR/PR or any player good at their position for an unproven player.

Maybe Aldrick Robinson will get to return some kicks/punts and prove that he's as good or better then Banks thus making Banks expendable.

But, until that happens it makes sense to keep the proven guy.

Special teams is about field position, TD are just a happy bonus

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 04:36 PM ----------

Imo IF they plan on using Banks as a WR, which I doubt, they should use him as a 'space' more then a 'gadget' dude. (not a fan of 'gadget plays')

I don't think they've used him effectively in the passing game.

He's not a WR that runs the complete route tree.

Imo his skillset lends itself to: bubble screens, china/texas routes, choice or jerk routes from the slot, and any combination of post, corner and go routes.

But I don't believe they'll be making an serious effort to get him involved in the offense.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Is this gona' be one of those ones that rumbles all season long, and get's Jason Campbell ugly the longer it does?

I ask as if it is, I need to get in training to go to war with dg! If the last time was legendary, this will be EPIC! :kungfu:

Hail.

[Murphs56]

Shanahan would cut ANYONE. He doesn't care about being popular at all. It's all about who's going to help the team at the end of the day. He obviously felt Banks could contribute this year and he kept him. If he doesn't perform, I'm sure he'll have no problem cutting him. Lets give Banks the benefit of the doubt and hope he performs up to his capabilities

[KCClybun]

To me Banks is a good, not great KR/PR, and you don't cut good KR/PR or any player good at their position for an unproven player.

What?

How do you build a team if you do that? Isn't that what we used to do? Keep good, okay players around, and keep letting younger players go under the assumption that they were "unproven"? That's how you get old in a hurry.

We've cut a lot of good players and replaced them with younger, "unproven" players. You can never improve if your position is "you don't cut a good player to give a position to players who are unproven".

Imo IF they plan on using Banks as a WR, which I doubt, they should use him as a 'space' more then a 'gadget' dude. (not a fan of 'gadget plays')

I don't think they've used him effectively in the passing game.

He's not a WR that runs the complete route tree.

Bubble screens, china/texas routes, choice or jerk routes from the slot, and any combination of post, corner and go routes.

You don't see the problem that he can only run a few routes?

That sort of tips the defense off if they know all you can run is a few very simple routes. It effectively neutralizes your ability to catch a defense off guard if you know one guy is only going to run a select number of offensive concepts.

The more you can do as a receiver, the better.

[SkinFaninOKC]

Banks made the team now he needs to prove he's worth keeping. I am looking forward to seeing him return a punt or 3 for a TD.

[darrelgreenie]

What?

How do you build a team if you do that? Isn't that what we used to do? Keep good, okay players around, and keep letting younger players go under the assumption that they were "unproven"? That's how you get old in a hurry.

We've cut a lot of good players and replaced them with younger, "unproven" players. You can never improve if your position is "you don't cut a good player to give a position to players who are unproven".

A serious of rhetorical questions.

And I didn't say 'okay' players I said good player.

And yes I would never 'give' a job to an unproven over a good player.

I would make the unproven player earn that position over the player that's already good thus increases the level of talent on the team.

For example I would let A.Rob returns some punts/kicks and see if he can earn the postion.

And no its not what the Redskins used to do, they Redskins lacked the ability to find talent and once found keep talent instead via FA they handed jobs to people that didn't earn them.

You don't see the problem that he can only run a few routes?

That sort of tips the defense off if they know all you can run is a few very simple routes. It effectively neutralizes your ability to catch a defense off guard if you know one guy is only going to run a select number of offensive concepts.

The more you can do as a receiver, the better.

In short: No.

Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells and countless other coaches say: 'don't tell me what a player can't do, tell me what this player can do and how we can use that to help the team win games'

[TSO]

Is this gona' be one of those ones that rumbles all season long, and get's Jason Campbell ugly the longer it does?

I ask as if it is, I need to get in training to go to war with dg! If the last time was legendary, this will be EPIC! :kungfu:

Hail.

Lol, we better not come even close to what happened with Jason when it comes to Banks. One is a QB and the other is a friggin fringe player! I would say we'd be out of our minds if this keeps going and would recommend the mods just close all threads about him at that point.

[hoosandskinsMUSTwin]

If you really believe that, then unless you are a very disturbed individual, you should leave. And if it should be that you actually are a very disturbed individual, then you should leave.

If, on the other hand, like so many people who are opining on Banks lately (pro or con) you have simply (hopefully temporarily) placed what sense you may have behind wanting to just peel off some really dumbass remark and stick in a thread, then just enjoy fitting in with so many others.

Jumbo - It comes as no surprise that you would react so strongly to that short little sentence. Yep. I am mentally disturbed for saying the line "That's all the website has become anyways". Luckily, I snuck out of the asylum to formulate a response. This site is immersed with negativity. I'm sure those of you that model your life around your appearances here have trouble seeing it. You think all fan sites are like this. You think its because we aren't exactly winning much and the fan base is just jaded. False. Over and over again fans come to this website and post perfectly respectful analysis, opinions, or thoughts - only to get openly maligned, mocked, or condescended. While this type of thing happens everywhere, it happens here at an absurd rate. Does it bother me, or should it bother anyone, that a message board post is attacked? No. But it simply isn't worth my time to try and talk about the team I love in a respectful way - only to get a one line response, over and over again, telling me how stupid I am for having that opinion. In fact, you should just have an option in every response window to click a button for "Your stupid for having that opinion". Based on how much effort they put into crafting ways to say it - it would save your brethren a lot of time and effort. Overall, it doesn't surprise me. I think a lot of your regular haters are the ones that populate FedEx field and make it an impossible place to bring your family or enjoy a game without some kind of scene. I literally have a better time going to see my team on the road. Much like I enjoy talking football with fans on sites other than this one. Before you ask "Well then why are you here" blah blah - the truth is I gave up on this site years ago, but I love the Breaking News feature. So once in a blue moon I'll glance at a thread. Funny thing is, anytime Extremeskins is brought up around a group of Skins fans - the reaction is the same. Wow. How ridiculous are the people on there. Life is too short to deal with so much negativity around something that is supposed to be a distraction. Life is full of enough real drama, forgive me if I try to have a positive outlook on my team no matter what the W-L column says. Now I will sit back, and this time thoroughly enjoy, the parade of responses this post here will get. Hate on haters. That's all this website has become anyways.

[Dirt]

If Banks lining up makes defenses/defensive coordinators think twice for even a second, it's an advantage. Regardless of how often he will break a big run on a reverse, perhaps the defense has to hesitate for the possibility. This is why I find his TD pass vs the Pats more than a fluke. Not just because the defense completely bit on him running, but because it's now on film. He has to be addressed by defenses in game planning.

Perhaps all this talk about 'making him a true WR' is to further confuse defensive coordinators. Sure he will run routes sometimes. He always has..sometimes. It will continue to be just 'sometimes', but any EDGE this, or any team can get is beneficial. Besides, the threat is greater considering defenses are already heavily considering what happens when RG3 fakes to Banks and keeps it. Rex wasn't any such threat. So it's those rare, but awesome and successful plays from last year but better and with greater chance of success.

It's an edge; make them think for a second and you get the first step. Any play that has RG3 and Banks lined up behind the line has the chance to leave defenses a day late & a dollar short. As Shanny endlessly says: "the best chance to win".

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - It comes as no surprise that you would react so strongly to that short little sentence. <edit babble>.

No Surprise? :evilg: So strongly? :ols::ols:

I'm willing to do what you no doubt think is proving your point.

Go ye forth, my little poster, and free thyself of such suffering. :pfft:

[Dirt]

dodo jackass full retard drama queen

maaaaaaan that is a mean burn lol

[Jumbo]

dodo jackass full retard drama queen

maaaaaaan that is a mean burn lol

After his crammed paragraph of babble-rant, I felt obligated to make the poor dude look credible. I am here to represent all that is wrong in this world. I even took an online course for it and got my certificate.

[paloosa]

The reason everyone was calling for him to be released IMHO is that Shanahan said that he had to make the team at WR and not just as a special team player. Well that was a bunch of BS if you ask me. Banks didn't impress me as a WR this who preseason and I think that he didn't impress Shanahan either. But I think that the last preseason game was what got him on the team. I think his returns reminded Shanahan how good he could be for him and he made a few good catches. So he made the team on his special teams only and not as a WR. I guarantee that if a few of our WR's go down they will bring in someone other guys to fill the void. They have done that in the past and they will do that again befoe Banks sees a start at WR.