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The case for Brandon Banks., the 'Mike Nelms' of the new millennium.


Gibbs Hog Heaven

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The ass backward logic of many Redskins fans never fails to amaze.

For years, they scream about drafting our own. So we do the next best thing and pick up an untouched UDFA.

For years, they scream about a lack of productivity from the likes of Rock Cartwright and Antwaan Randle El in the return game in this game of inches where field position is King. That aforementioned UDFA, after a shaky start, then goes on to become the most exciting, most productive return man in well over a decade since the release of an all time 'Skins great Brian Mitchell.

Yet most all summer, in various threads, they now scream for him to be cut because he's both had limited looks at wide receiver; and they perceive unproven rookies as being of equal stature and better. Heck, there's an exclusive thread up here now mooting trading him: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?350920-Trade-Brandon-Banks

I'm talking of course about the diminutive magician in the return game Brandon Banks. A dude who's electrifying excitement we've not seen in DC since heck knows when. Lightening quick with moves to match, he's a serious threat to take it to the house most every time he touches the ball. (Which he would of done 3 times last year if not for dumbass penalties from his teammates called him back.). In Detroit, he set a Redskin franchise record of 271 return yards, scoring our first kick return for a TD in some 70 games. From starting the year a total unknown out of small Kansas State, he ended it getting praise from a multitude of sources. Non less than his own HC, who was fair gushing about another electrifying return game most every week at the back end of last season. His final return stats in his debut season were thus:

Kick Returns.

46 for 1,155 yards. 25.1 yrds. per return average. A long of 96 for a TD. 34 returns over 20 yards, with 4 over 40. Fumbling once in those 46 returns.

Punt Returns.

38 for 431 yards. 11.3 yrds per return average. A long of 53 yards. 6 returns over 20 yards, with another over 40. Fumbling once in those 38 returns.

And some of y'all are prepared to ditch him on the premiss "We've drafted better. And he'll be forgotten within a year." This dude is NO average return man. The kids up there already with the best in the league and on every opposing teams coordinators radar. Specialists like him that can flip the field with a serious shot at scoring most every time the balls in their hands don't grow on trees.

And this talk about "well, he doesn't contribute at wide out so you can't find a spot for a one dimensional guy." Aside from the fact his lightening speed has to be respected by opposing D coordinators the packages he is in, I have one name for you. Arguably the greatest, most exciting return man we've ever had. Mike Nelms. For 5 years, from 1980 through 1984, Nelms, a DB, was almost exclusively a kick returner. And that was at a time when the active roster limit was 45 until 1981; upped to 49 through 1984.

A time when they had 8 and 4 less bodies on the active roster, yet the great Bobby Beathard and Coach Gibbs found a place for a guy who's job was almost exclusively returning kicks. A guy who was as exciting a threat to take it to the house most every time he had the ball in his hands like Banks, but without Banks breakneck speed.

But hey, what would BB and Coach know about he importance of a top class kick returner in this game of ours where field position is King?

Hopefully Allen and Shanahan are thinking along the same lines as those two greats. Because if we cut Banks as some of you are now pushing, it won't be long into next season before you realize just what an important talent you gave up on.

Hail.

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I think the biggest reason you're seeing the calls for trading him is the fact that we have, like, a hundred potentially great, and young, WRs on our team who can also return and people can't seem to understand how we can keep Banks without also giving up on one of them. So that natural fear of letting go is turning into a "cut Banks" type of thinking to avoid the cognitive dissonance arising from such scenarios.

At least that's my take on it, lol.

Again, I really don't believe people want to be rid of Banks, just that they don't envision a scenario where we keep him on the roster as well as keep all of our young draftees who have great potential as well. Once people remember the practice squad exists and it's not this dangerous animal where every one of your players gets swooped up by another team, I think there'll be very few actually wanting Banks to go. We can easily go into this season with Moss, Gaffney, Stallworth/Kelly, Hankerson and Banks while having Pauls, Austin (Austin is only in his second year, and thus, still eligible for the practice squad) and Robinson on the practice squad and if any other team tries to come get them they'll definitely give us first dibs.

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The ass backward logic of many Redskins fans never fails to amaze.

For years, they scream about drafting our own. So we do the next best thing and pick up an untouched UDFA.

For years, they scream about a lack of productivity from the likes of Rock Cartwright and Antwaan Randle El in the return game in this game of inches where field position is King. That aforementioned UDFA, after a shaky start, then goes on to become the most exciting, most productive return man in well over a decade since the release of an all time 'Skins great Brian Mitchell.

Yet most all summer, in various threads, they now scream for him to be cut because he's both had limited looks at wide receiver; and they perceive unproven rookies as being of equal stature and better. Heck, there's an exclusive thread up here now mooting trading him: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?350920-Trade-Brandon-Banks

I'm talking of course about the diminutive magician in the return game Brandon Banks. A dude who's electrifying excitement we've not seen in DC since heck knows when. Lightening quick with moves to match, he's a serious threat to take it to the house most every time he touches the ball. (Which he would of done 3 times last year if not for dumbass penalties from his teammates called him back.). In Detroit, he set a Redskin franchise record of 271 return yards, scoring our first kick return for a TD in some 70 games. From starting the year a total unknown out of small Kansas State, he ended it getting praise from a multitude of sources. Non less than his own HC, who was fair gushing about another electrifying return game most every week at the back end of last season. His final return stats in his debut season were thus:

Kick Returns.

46 for 1,155 yards. 25.1 yrds. per return average. A long of 96 for a TD. 34 returns over 20 yards, with 4 over 40. Fumbling once in those 46 returns.

Punt Returns.

38 for 431 yards. 11.3 yrds per return average. A long of 53 yards. 6 returns over 20 yards, with another over 40. Fumbling once in those 38 returns.

And some of y'all are prepared to ditch him on the premiss "We've drafted better. And he'll be forgotten within a year." This dude is NO average return man. The kids up there already with the best in the league and on every opposing teams coordinators radar. Specialists like him that can flip the field with a serious shot at scoring most every time the balls in there hands don't grow on trees.

And this talk about "well, he doesn't contribute at wide out so you can't find a spot for a one dimensional guy." Aside from the fact his lightening speed has to be respected by opposing D coordinators the packages he is in, I have one name for you. Arguably the greatest, most exciting return man we've ever had. Mike Nelms. For 5 years, from 1980 through 1984, Nelms, a DB, was almost exclusively a kick returner. And that was at a time when the active roster limit was 45 until 1981; upped to 49 through 1984.

A time when they had 8 and 4 less bodies on the active roster, yet the great Bobby Beathard and Coach Gibbs found a place for a guy who's job was almost exclusively returning kicks. A guy who was as exciting a threat to take it to the house most every time he had the ball in his hands like Banks, but without Banks breakneck speed.

But hey, what would BB and Coach know about he importance of a top class kick returner in this game of ours where field position is King?

Hopefully Allen and Shanahan are thinking along the same lines as those two greats. Because if we cut Banks as some of you are now pushing, it won't be long into next season before you realize just what an important talent you gave up on.

Hail.

word. What he said. +1. All that.

Dropping Banks would be shortsighted and foolish.

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Compare Banks to Nelms? How about Speedy Duncan, Herb Mul-Key, Larry Jones, Keith Green, Ken Jenkins, Joe P. Johnson or Eric Metcalf? All had one or two great years for us but were pretty much just return guys and all but Johnson and Metcalf played when rosters were, in reality, bigger than now (while technically smaller, pretty much the only operative word in injured reserve was RESERVE). Nelms also played during this era when you only carried 7-8 offensive linemen, 2 QBs and no designated LS on your active roster. Nelms also was a 4-way ST while Banks is only a 2-way guy so far. We also lost a young WR by the name Keenen McCardell based pretty much on a similar case to the one you make here.

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While I agree with the OP, Banks was a wonderful high light for last year.

And I, like alot of other fans probally held there breath everytime he fielded a kick.

You knew there was a chance for a run to the house, but there was also that possability that he would get snapped in half

by the coverage team.

But folks, the rules have changed. Do you really believe he is going to be as effective on kick offs now?

And do you really want to tie up a valuable roster spot for a player who is only going to field punts ??

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First of all, Nelms was able to do more than just returns. If Banks was a legitimate backup at some other position, then, yes, his spot should be safe.

But keeping Banks now might mean cutting an up and coming NFL-size wide receiver. That wouldn't be smart.

The fact is Banks is a better returner than *this* team has had in a while. But it turns out other teams have returners who score a TD a year, too. Imagine that. If one of our backup DBs or WRs can also return one TD a year, then that saves a roster spot.

BTW, comparing roster sizes in 2011 to decades ago is silly. We have more starters now who can't play special teams. We have longer season with more injuries. We have a greater variety of personnel groups on both sides of the ball. The better question is how many other modern teams have specialist returners who are not at least legitimate 2nd string at some other position?

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Some people are worthy of the 53 man roster, Banks is one of em. I don't care if all we do is let him return kicks, that alone makes him one of our most valuable players. I mean hell, put him beside DeSean Jackson and all he gives up is height. I know we all remember the mistake of drafting Thomas and Kelly over Jackson, right? Banks is our ST's stud...if he's cut, it'd be pure insanity on the part of Allen & Co.

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We aren't seriously comparing Banks to Desean Jackson now are we?? Seriously?

I think the point is if we keep our veteran wide outs and develop young wide outs at the same time, then that helps improve our offense to where our kick returner won't have to be our best offensive weapon. Put another way, if we pin our hopes again on a returner every game, then we still suck as a team. If opposing teams kick away from our PR because they don't fear our offense at midfield, then we still suck. The point is to build an actual professional football team that doesn't suck.

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Some people are worthy of the 53 man roster, Banks is one of em. I don't care if all we do is let him return kicks, that alone makes him one of our most valuable players. I mean hell, put him beside DeSean Jackson and all he gives up is height. I know we all remember the mistake of drafting Thomas and Kelly over Jackson, right? Banks is our ST's stud...if he's cut, it'd be pure insanity on the part of Allen & Co.

qft. Some around here believe that the Skins have suddenly become the Patriots with all the WRs they have. WR has suddenly not become a luxury. It's just because they've decided to keep so many in camp right now. They were lucky to have find Banks last year. This guy is special and has the potential to be what DeSean Jackson or Josh Cribbs are for their teams.

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Our return men have been so bad that when an average one shows up he is hailed as the next Devin Hester.

Banks weighs 150lbs, nearly 20lbs less than DJax. Banks showed last year he can't stay healthy an entire season, and he offers nothing as a reciever.

NO TEAM FEARS BANKS, who told you that lie?. The guy has 1 td, hell the 5th string CB for Dallas had 2 td returns and no one cares about him

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Agree 100% GHH. And a great mention of Mike Nelms--one of the best ever. On a related note, I'm shocked that there is so little video footage of Nelms available on the internet to educate the younger fans.

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It's sad that our franchise has been so bad that fans think we need a guy like banks. Straight up gangster banks. Fool.

But, but, but.... Banks scored a Touchdown! An actual touchdown. That is one tasty cracker! He must be a Ritz!

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Food for thought: In an average game, a dual kick/punt returner will probably touch the ball about six to eight times. (In fact, both parts of this number tend to balance each other out. If the other team is more effective, we'll return more kickoffs. If we can shut down the other team's offense, we'll return more punts. Either way, our returner should have regular work.)

How many times per game does your average non-returner fifth WR touch the ball?

---------- Post added August-7th-2011 at 01:38 AM ----------

It's sad that our franchise has been so bad that fans think we need a guy like banks. Straight up gangster banks. Fool.

Yeah, a much better organization would never make use of players with character issues. Like the Patriots. Clean-cut, the lot of them. Well, except for:

- Albert Haynesworth

- Randy Moss

- Rodney Harrison

- Corey Dillon

- Brandon Meriweather

- Ryan Mallett

- Chad Ochocinco? (I love him, but some don't.)

Anyway, point is, it's clearly impossible for any self-proclaimed "gangster" to be productive.

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With so many WRs in camp, a lot depends on how things play out in the preseason. There is a lot of competition this year, so Banks will have to earn it. I think he will. I think we will probably carry a sixth WR, and that WR will be Brandon Banks, for all the reasons the OP so eloquently enumerated. Banks earned Shanny's praise last year, and as long as he shows he still has "it" in the preseason, I think he keeps his job.

But folks, the rules have changed. Do you really believe he is going to be as effective on kick offs now?

And do you really want to tie up a valuable roster spot for a player who is only going to field punts ??

A lot of people seem to think that moving the kickoffs up 5 yards greatly diminishes Brandon Bank's value. While I expect there to be more touchbacks this season, there will still be plenty of opportunities to return kicks, especially because coverage teams are no longer allowed as much of a running start. Also, nothing has changed in the punting game.

It is not like there will be no opportunities for returns this season.

Some people are worthy of the 53 man roster, Banks is one of em. I don't care if all we do is let him return kicks, that alone makes him one of our most valuable players. I mean hell, put him beside DeSean Jackson and all he gives up is height. I know we all remember the mistake of drafting Thomas and Kelly over Jackson, right? Banks is our ST's stud...if he's cut, it'd be pure insanity on the part of Allen & Co.
If we didn't have Robinson, then I'd agree. However he and Paul could EASILY put up the same numbers, if not more. Little bit bigger, but run the same speeds, plus they can play WR. Cut Banks, make one of them a returner.

This is the other thing you hear a lot. People think Banks cannot be effective as a WR. While I will agree his size probably prohibits him from being a full-time starter, I do think he can be a good depth player, and a great situational player. To give a couple examples, his speed can be utilized on offense to run off the safety, run a quick screen, or run a reverse.

Also, people forget Banks was a pretty good WR at Kansas St.

0MFRJJ9T6Gc

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Yeah, a much better organization would never make use of players with character issues. Like the Patriots. Clean-cut, the lot of them. Well, except for:

- Albert Haynesworth

- Randy Moss

- Rodney Harrison

- Corey Dillon

- Brandon Meriweather

- Ryan Mallett

- Chad Ochocinco? (I love him, but some don't.)

Anyway, point is, it's clearly impossible for any self-proclaimed "gangster" to be productive.

Drama Queen much?

Yeah your list is really relevant. :ols:

It's classic you list a bunch of pro bowlers when Brandon Banks has done nothing in his short career compared to the above list including not make the pro bowl.

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If we release Banks we are idiots. Who cares abour what he can be as a 4th WR. What matters is that he can change field position and do much more. He is a playmaker. How many do we have?? Unlike most of our releases if he is let go watch - He will be picked up immediately.

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I'll say one thing about all of this; if we release Banks that has to mean we've got one heck of a WR corps as well as a legitimate threat to take it to the house on every return. To me, actually cutting a weapon like Banks would mean we've improved our team considerably. I just can't fathom a scenario where Banks gets released for any other reason, unless his character issues are so bad it totally disrupts everything we're building.

I still believe we won't, and that a lot of the talk about releasing Banks comes from the fear of losing our other potential studs. But I think a lot of us are ignoring the fact that if Banks ends up cut from this team, it'll most likely be because we've got even better weapons!

By the way, nice thread to spark some discussion GHH..........

you tank job-desiring ****. :pfft:

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I like Banks. I think he has a lot of play making ability. However, I think some of you are going a bit overboard in his importance to the team. Yes, having an explosive player is great, but look around the league at how many guys are just like him:

Raiders - Jacoby Ford; Chiefs - Dexter McCluster, Jamaal Charles, Brandon Carr; Titans - Marc Mariani (not even gonna list CJ since thats another category all together); Texans - Steve Slaton; Jaguars - Mike Thomas, Tiquan Underwood; Browns - Josh Cribbs; Steelers - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Mike Wallace; Bengals - Bernard Scott; Bills - CJ Spiller, Brad Smith, Roscoe Parrish; Patriots - Brandon Tate; Eagles - Jeremy Maclin (Again, DJax is a star so I won't list him); Saints - Courtney Roby, Darren Sproles; Bucs - Michael Spurlock; Falcons - Eric Weems; Seahawks - Leon Washington; 49ers - Ted Ginn; Lions - Stefan Logan; Bears - Danieal Manning (again, won't mention Hester); Vikings - Percy Harvin (hes borderline at the moment) etc. etc. I'm sure some people would be willing to put other return men on the list too.

That right there is a list of all the dangerous return men who are a threat EVERY TIME they get the ball. STs don't really like dealing with these guys as they've all either ran back multiple returns for TDs, ripped off multiple returns for 40-50+ yards, or who do both or just have insane speed and moves that makes the return game dangerous to deal with. Its not as uncommon as you think, tbh. I mean, theres only a handful of teams that DON'T have a dangerous return man, and most of those still have guys like Dez Bryant or DJax who are also utilized pretty well in other facets of the game.

Now I like Banks and always believe you should find a way to use a dangerous player like that. But if hes not good enough to be an NFL WR, why is there so much fuss about the idea of cutting him? You could go back in time 5 years ago and I could make as big a list with completely different names. Look at how many great returners come and go. Michael Lewis from the Saints? Dante Hall? these guys usually come for 3-4 seasons (if that) until they get replaced by younger, faster guys. If Niles Paul, Terrance Austin or Aldrick Robinson have the same return skills and are better WRs, then cut Banks. If Banks has improved and is a better WR, then take a chance on sending Robinson, Paul or Austin to the practice squad. But I don't think we should just act like cutting him would be like sacrificing the season.

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I like Banks as much as the next guy, but some of this outrage at him potentially being cut is beyond a joke.

Lets find a competent bunch of WR's first. If that comes at the lose of a handful of yards per average return in our special teams, so be it.

Touchbacks & directional punting out of bounds will be part of Banks' future if he sticks around. The guy needs to be able to contribute elsewhere on the team to make his position viable, imo.

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