Tarhog Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wow - that's a great way of looking at it Wyvern. I may not be able to 'live' that perspective, but I admire it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I agree with a lot of your post, SHF, but I want to quibble with this one. I've really come to root for Anthony Armstrong. I love his underdog story and I love what he is bringing to the team and can't wait to see how he progresses. He's the kind of underdog story I really dig. I think he's an easy guy to get behind. So, we don't have many, but we have a few.I could also say the same about Orakpo and Banks. Both guys are good stories and good Redskins, but I've always had a soft spot for that undrafted free agent make good story or that little guy who somehow makes it. Maybe Armstrong doesn't fit the definition of a rising "star" yet, but I think he showed the spark of something special. He has a knack for getting open and making huge plays and doing it pretty often. Lets be honest. Armstrong, Orakpo and Banks, while young (except Armstrong who is pushing 29) and talented are not Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper or John Wall. Those 4 will continue to be the faces of the DC sports scene the rest of this decade, and possibly into the 20s. Meanwhile the best the Redskins can do are 2 WRs and an OLB, who while talented isn't Lawrence Taylor. There is no positive buzz around this team right now that gives a fan any excitement or hope going into 2011 and beyond. This just might be the proverbial "rock bottom" and I think one more year of fully bottoming out will do wonders in the long run. I don't know how else to describe it except malaise interrupted 3 times the last 20 years. And this is probably the worst of it. Look at us, a very good chunk (and based on posts on this board I'd venture in the 30-50 percent range) of fans want to tank this year for a QB that may or may not even come out in the draft next year. That is just how bad things have gotten around these parts. I fall right in line with the way Tarhog is thinking, I am a freakin diehard, this team is like a family member to me, but I am not sure how eager I am to visit these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wonderful read Tarhog. Right there with you. Like you mentioned, I feel like Shanahan brings something to the table that we haven't had in a long time. The draft moves coupled with, hopefully, some smart moves in FA in 2011 to help bolster the roster would do some good things for the immediate future of this team in terms of progression. The b*tch of it is...is that we just don't know how some of these moves are going to pan out. It's really a craps shoot, but it apprears that we're going about the right way for the first time since the Snyder era. Unfortunately, like many have already mentioned in this thread, we're probably not going to see any major progress this year, but it'd be nice to see some. Like Bang said, that may get you (and many others) off the proverbial respirator. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 There is no positive buzz around this team right now that gives a fan any excitement or hope going into 2011 and beyond. This just might be the proverbial "rock bottom" and I think one more year of fully bottoming out will do wonders in the long run. SHF, I think your posts are hitting it. I don't foresee a point where I won't either be at the stadium or watching the Skins on Sundays in the fall, but it seems like my attitude the past few seasons has been more blase. I've been a fan for close to 40 years and, probably like a lot of you, have watched plenty of games where there's a lot on the line for the Skins and get so nervous that its tough to watch. In the middle of the Zorn collapse, my mentality changed. After we lost three midseason games at home in 2008, the last being one where a Plaxico-less Giants team came in and manhandled us on the game which was marking the one-year anniversary of Sean's death, I lost a lot of confidence. The next game was against the Ravens and I couldn't remember a time where I had absolutely no confidence we were going to win. There was a lot of optimism on here before 2009, but I knew better. I know we haven't been able to do anything with the roster (other than the draft) because of the lockout, but even if we do, as SHF said, the buzz probably isn't going to be there this season. Not many feel that the crop of signal callers on this roster are going to be here very long, and I think you're going to see very few of the ubiquitous 10-6 predictions that you always have from the faithful here. Right now, we have to be in wait-and-see mode, and take a long view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Good post, Tarhog, and great hearing from you. I find myself weighing similar emotions from time to time. Part of it is an age thing, I think. Long term fandom for me is almost like a good marriage that's survived. Early on there was the unbridled passion. That fades over time, though, but what settles in is a comfortable, settled love that you know will endure. Sure it gets tested sometimes, but you keep working to strengthen the bond. An advantage for us "men of a certain age" is that we've been to the promised land. We had a run there where the Washington Redskins were at the top of the NFL mountain, and maintained excellence for a number of good years. I've got to admit that I admire the 20-something fans who can keep the passion year after year knowing nothing from this team but mediocrity. For us, the long drought will make the taste success all the sweeter. Again Tarhog, great hearing from you. Pop over more often. You're still a legend in these parts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 So.Apparently it's not just me Nope. For the last few months during this lockout, I had a lot of the same thoughts kicking around in my noggin as well. Glad to see it wasn't just me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanDan Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I enjoyed reading this. It's tough has been tough and still going to be tough to be a Redskins fan. It all started for me in 1955. Now you want to talk about some disappointment. Then suffering in the 60's 70's with all the Cowboy domination. The Clint Longly hail mary, John Riggins and the Skins finally bowing up and laying it to the Cowboy's with a crushing rush off the right side then DC blowing a 17 point lead. Never been a doubt in my mind that is why John sat out the next year. 1983 I was stationed in Sicily and drove 200 miles and watched the the Skins lose to Dallas then the 1984 SB when Joe couldn't have thrown a more perfect pass to a Raider. Sure been some low points but that's all part of being a fan. I have some confidence in Shanahan. I don't dispise Synder as much as some of the older fans do. Despite all the hate the man has spent god knows how much money to buy a team, he gets lots of hate for that from the fans and especially the press. When he didn't get a quick winner he did get rid of one coach he would have eventually produced a winning team, not necessarily a SB winner but a winning team.........that would be Turner. I see some solid players beginning to develop. It is sad we can't come up with a decent QB, the Redskins pay lots of money and they just can't come up with a winner. All season I have read nothing but negative about Donovan wouldn't surprise me a bit if he takes first snap in the season. Stranger things have happened. Seems to me that Shanahan didn't see anything he liked in the draft well enough to put up big bucks and decided to devote more effort at the whole team, I'm sure most won't agree with me but I think he's going to get a winner going here. I have faith his choices are going to start paying off from the git go maybe not pro-bowl but good solid players. HTTR Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 It's the lockout man. Nothing else. No news to discuss.. nothing but bull to rehash.. there is nothing new to keep you interested this offseason.\As soon as things start back up, so will your motor, I bet. I tend to agree with this. Usually, with the offseason hope springs eternal. We get new players in, we hear reports from practices, we get energized. We haven't had much of that. Since the draft, there has been no reason to follow the team until the players and owners get their business done. Combine that with the fact that I can not read the board at work anymore, I've been able to focus on other things for a while. While I don't think much of the chances of the Redskins next season, I'm actually somewhat revitalized from the break. I'm ready for some football, even if it is mediocre ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Lets be honest. Armstrong, Orakpo and Banks, while young (except Armstrong who is pushing 29) and talented are not Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper or John Wall. Those 4 will continue to be the faces of the DC sports scene the rest of this decade, and possibly into the 20s. Ah, you are longing for the days of Albert Haynesworth. The uber talented all star that gets everyone drooling over what he will do on the field. I am speaking of something different. I am saying you don't need that world class superstar that everyone fawns over to have players that you can take into your heart and scream and root for. Monk, Green, and Riggo were never first tier superstars. They were never considered the best of the best. Art Monk never got the acclaim of a Jerry Rice. Heck, look how long Monk was snubbed in HOF ballotting. Yet, he is the type of player that I cherish. The Anthony Armstrongs, the Rock Cartwrights, the Lorenzo Alexanders are the reason I still root for this team. Lord knows we tried the flashy superstar route. I don't need buzz. I need underdogs who give it their all. Right now, I'm happier that we seem to be shedding ourselves of the "name" players. For many years, we've been paper lions and heartless sloths on the field. I'm more curious about this team and how it builds. I do share the fatigue all of you are talking about, but there are still seedlings that awaken my senses. I agree we're coming out of a drought or still in a droubt, but while I wouldn't mind having that player everyone knows and gushes over... just how well has Adriane Peterson or Lebron James really done? Kings with no rings or a crown fill me with little joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashburn Dave Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Lets be honest. Armstrong, Orakpo and Banks, while young (except Armstrong who is pushing 29) and talented are not Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper or John Wall. Those 4 will continue to be the faces of the DC sports scene the rest of this decade, and possibly into the 20s. Give me a team full of blue collar high motor guys over the super star any day. I am a fan of the team not the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Give me a team full of blue collar high motor guys over the super star any day. I am a fan of the team not the individual. Please tell me a team that doesn't have a bonafide superstar on their team that won a superbowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Please tell me a team that doesn't have a bonafide superstar on their team that won a superbowl? I was going to say the Bucs, but I think Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks qualify as superstars, don't they? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I was going to say the Bucs, but I think Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks qualify as superstars, don't they?~Bang '02 Patriots? Wouldn't call any of them 'superstars.' Just a collection of some very good and very solid team players. Bledsoe maybe as a former #1 pick. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 82 Redskins. That first Redskin team had no superstars. The closest would have been the guy who quit football and came back, but Riggo was far from a superstar until after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I hear you LOUD and CLEAR my brother. I am 46, have a daughter going to college in a month and my son goes into 9th grade this year as well. Been a Skins fan as long as I can remember, but my first heroes were from Larry Brown and Charley Taylor era. I would clip black and white newspaper photos out of the WPost and put them in a binder which I poured through on a daily basis. Then I started collecting Redskins cards and now I am up to about 70,000 cards, so I can relate to the OCD. Last year watching the team, I started to harden myself into being less of a diehard fan. It's actually been going on for a few years now, training myself to be less concerned. I don't get angry like I used to and after the game its over, a loss (especially a stupid one) doesn't carry on for days like it used to. I think what it comes down to is that I don't expect much anymore from the Skins and that is what I get. I have stopped setting expectations and they are living up to them. I had season tickets and let them go. Last year was the first time that my son and I didn't go to a game (his first was when he was 3). It is very sad. My 14 yo son is also a die hard fan, and he knows we have sucked for 20 years but he keeps going back. The eternal optimism of youth? But you know what? There is still a glimmer of that hope in me. I still read this board, I still go to training camp with my son and I still watch every game. I actually am one of the few that believe this organization will get turned around at some point with Snyder at the helm. But I will never buy season tickets again. The disappointing fact is that the actions of the organization during the beginning of his tenure, the years of Vinnie "Wormtongue," has caused much of the old blood to move on, which is probably lost for good. That is our heritage, our Elders and a holocaust of the older Redskins generation. These are the ones who carried the flame for such a long time and now many are lost for ever. I am also on that edge, but am holding on to every Burgundy and Gold strand I can find. I hope that our faith is rewarded one day in the near future. Friend do it this way - that is, whatever you do in life, do the very best you can with both your heart and mind. And if you do it that way, the Power Of The Universe will come to your assistance, if your heart and mind are in unity. When one sits in the Hoop Of The People, one must be responsible because all of Creation is related. And the hurt of one is the hurt of all. And the honor of one is the honor of all. And whatever we do effects everything in the Universe. If you do it that way - that is, if you truly join your heart and mind as One - whatever you ask for, that's the way it's going to be. - from the Lakota Hail Skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Ah, you are longing for the days of Albert Haynesworth. The uber talented all star that gets everyone drooling over what he will do on the field. I am speaking of something different. I am saying you don't need that world class superstar that everyone fawns over to have players that you can take into your heart and scream and root for. Monk, Green, and Riggo were never first tier superstars. They were never considered the best of the best. Art Monk never got the acclaim of a Jerry Rice. Heck, look how long Monk was snubbed in HOF ballotting. Yet, he is the type of player that I cherish. The Anthony Armstrongs, the Rock Cartwrights, the Lorenzo Alexanders are the reason I still root for this team.Lord knows we tried the flashy superstar route. I don't need buzz. I need underdogs who give it their all. Right now, I'm happier that we seem to be shedding ourselves of the "name" players. For many years, we've been paper lions and heartless sloths on the field. I'm more curious about this team and how it builds. I do share the fatigue all of you are talking about, but there are still seedlings that awaken my senses. I agree we're coming out of a drought or still in a droubt, but while I wouldn't mind having that player everyone knows and gushes over... just how well has Adriane Peterson or Lebron James really done? Kings with no rings or a crown fill me with little joy. Give me a team full of blue collar high motor guys over the super star any day. I am a fan of the team not the individual. 82 Redskins. That first Redskin team had no superstars. The closest would have been the guy who quit football and came back, but Riggo was far from a superstar until after. These posts are missing the point. Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper and Wall were all drafted by their respective teams and will be the icons of DC sports for the next decade. Between the 4 of them I can see multiple championships being won, that is how great these guys are. The 4 of them give fans in DC hope, there is a light at the end of the tunnel with them. In the case of Ovechkin you have a 2 time MVP that has led the Caps to incredible regular season success. The kid is only 25 and he is done so much. I expect this Caps team will eventually break through. Have we forgotten the buzz from Stras' first start last year? My goodness, the hype and he delivered beyond our wildest imagination. Wall, on a team with nobodies, showed he is a future star in his rookie year. Harper dominated the Sally league. Watching his development is going to be very fun. Out of these 4 guys, 1 already is on a team built to win a championship, Strasburg and Harper will be the leaders of another future championship contender, and Wall can be the piece to a championship team in DC. So what do we as Redskins fans have to look forward to in comparison with our other 3 teams in DC? A 60 year old coach whose championship days were over a decade ago? A 29 year old WR who came in from the Arena Leauge and who has a short NFL shelf life? A very good LB? Right now, there is very little hope from Ashburn that this is going to be a year in year out title team. There seems to be some nice young players, but nothing that makes you think "this guy will be one of the leaders of our Superbowl teams" There is a long ways to go in that regard, which is why I totally understand how Tarhog feels. The Redskins have done little for us over the past 20 years, and as of now don't seem to be doing much for us going forward This team needs someone the fanbase can rally around, that gives us hope that we will compete for Superbowls over the next decade plus. Someone we can watch grow up and think "we have that guy" and have to control our excitement because he shows it on the field so early. We need someone who will get us WINS 12-28 in the last 40 games. We are just about as rock bottom as we can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wow - some great posts. Funny thing about threads, blogs, articles - you almost never know when one will strike a chord. I really thought I was on the fringe in terms of having some of the feelings I've experienced this offseason, but clearly that is not the case. One interesting thought ... as much as I agree with SkinsHokie regarding a lack of marquee players (again, the point there being, not that they equal success, but that they at least provide the 'potential' for a brighter future), I wonder if what the Redskins have really lacked for the better part of 20 years isn't something else? Real leadership. Say what you will about Mark Brunell - but with he and Gibbs leading the way, we experienced the first success we'd had other than the limited version of it Norv was able to provide. I would absolutely KILL to have a talented QB who actually had a pair, played with an old school fiery mentality, and was able to take even a less than star-filled roster on his back and win games. We haven't had that in so long, I've almost forgotten what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 82 Redskins. That first Redskin team had no superstars. The closest would have been the guy who quit football and came back, but Riggo was far from a superstar until after. That was nearly 30 years ago lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wow - some great posts. Funny thing about threads, blogs, articles - you almost never know when one will strike a chord. I really thought I was on the fringe in terms of having some of the feelings I've experienced this offseason, but clearly that is not the case.One interesting thought ... as much as I agree with SkinsHokie regarding a lack of marquee players (again, the point there being, not that they equal success, but that they at least provide the 'potential' for a brighter future), I wonder if what the Redskins have really lacked for the better part of 20 years isn't something else? Real leadership. Say what you will about Mark Brunell - but with he and Gibbs leading the way, we experienced the first success we'd had other than the limited version of it Norv was able to provide. I would absolutely KILL to have a talented QB who actually had a pair, played with an old school fiery mentality, and was able to take even a less than star-filled roster on his back and win games. We haven't had that in so long, I've almost forgotten what it looks like. I agree with you. It isn't about marquee players per say (although that is nice) but real leadership, in particular at the QB spot. Leadership isn't just what Beck is doing this offseason (which is part of it) but actually putting it together on the field. Standing in the pocket and taking the big hit on 3rd and 8 when the Cowboys D blitzes and completing a 13 yard pass for the 1st down in the 4th quarter. That is leadership. I really believe that player is in this upcoming draft. I am hoping we get him so that we do have that leader we can watch grow and lead this team for the next decade I am tired of watching this team max out at 9 or 10 wins every 4 or 5 years ('96, '99, '05, '07) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goskinz0721 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I agree with you.It isn't about marquee players per say (although that is nice) but real leadership, in particular at the QB spot. Leadership isn't just what Beck is doing this offseason (which is part of it) but actually putting it together on the field. Standing in the pocket and taking the big hit on 3rd and 8 when the Cowboys D blitzes and completing a 13 yard pass for the 1st down in the 4th quarter. That is leadership. I really believe that player is in this upcoming draft. I am hoping we get him so that we do have that leader we can watch grow and lead this team for the next decade I am tired of watching this team max out at 9 or 10 wins every 4 or 5 years ('96, '99, '05, '07) I've been following this team since the '60s and can relate to the posts from Tarhog (and others). I gave up season tickets 3 years ago (in the family since 1964) because I got fed up with the team & owner attitude. The constant turnover of talent & coaching has left this team with no personality. It has given us nobody to cling to.The closest in the past 6-7 years has been Cooley & Portis & Sean. The owner has been losing the fanbase over the past couple of years. I really, really think it will accelerate over the next couple of seasons if things don't improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I'm at the beach w/ several gerations of family this week. Only minutes ago my aunt brought up the memory of the organist playing HTTR at my grandfather's funeral in 1987. His 51 years of fandom ended at the age of 73, just one month shy of our next championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well done, Amigo.It sounds like we share some personality traits. I've been where you are, and I remember that phase well. I've been a Redskins fan for 66 of my 76 years. Right now, I'm hanging onto my fandom by my fingernails. You know what bothers me a lot? The team hasn't even been trying to be the best. We are the exemplar for the way to operate a mediocre franchise. Even if they tried and failed to reach the top of the pile, at least I could admire a noble effort. We could hold our heads high if they could only do that much. You know what bothers me even more? Most of my fellow Redskins fans are okay with that. Maybe sometime spent with a Monk or the Monk would help. Growing old gracefully would suit you well. Instead you have become a bitter fan. I say take a break and come back when you can have a healthy approach to the team and where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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