NYDNews: Tea Partiers Don't Like Medicaid, Medicare Cuts

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do you have information about another poll that shows Tea Party supporters do want cuts in Medicare and Medicaid? If you do, that doesn't make you right about THIS poll, but it would be interesting information.

You are in error as to how you described the results of this poll. You describe the poll numbers as being against CUTS to medicare and medicaid. In actuality, this poll never asked that question. This poll asked if they would be in favor of Cutting the Programs entirely. The actual question is phrased as such:Do you support or oppose each of the following to deal with Federal Budget deficite: Cut Mediaid and Medicare? That is a very different question from asking if you would support a plan to make it stable or CUTS to each program. Most people, regardless of political affiliation are going to oppose a cut of each program entirely. It is a miss representation.

The point I'm getting at here is that it's a lot easier to discuss these things and perhaps, eventually, come to mutual understandings. Instead, things like this simply create a perception that is counter productive at best.

---------- Post added April-21st-2011 at 02:51 PM ----------

He stated in another thread that he does.

Further supports my belief that Tea Partiers are only slightly brighter than farm animals.

Yes, I do and thank you for that. It is always nice to see this kind of response to a serious conversation. You should be proud of yourself.

[Bang]

He stated in another thread that he does.

Further supports my belief that Tea Partiers are only slightly brighter than farm animals.

Well, even if I disagree with what they say sometimes, i don't think I'd call Thiebear or ABQ dumb by any stretch.

~Bang

[JimboDaMan]

You are in error as to how you described the results of this poll. You describe the poll numbers as being against CUTS to medicare and medicaid. In actuality, this poll never asked that question. This poll asked if they would be in favor of Cutting the Programs entirely. The actual question is phrased as such:Do you support or oppose each of the following to deal with Federal Budget deficite: Cut Mediaid and Medicare? That is a very different question from asking if you would support a plan to make it stable or CUTS to each program. Most people, regardless of political affiliation are going to oppose a cut of each program entirely. It is a miss representation.

You are correct that the wording could be better. But you are stating your interpretation as fact when it is simply an interpretation. The question did not ask whether the respondent wanted to ELIMINATE those programs but whether they supported cutting them. People often talk about "cutting" military spending, rarely do I think they actually mean disbanding the Army.

[ABQCOWBOY]

]And you are completely making that assertion up. The first sentence of the original post specifically says otherwise.

Here is what the first sentence of this thead says' date=' I assume this is what you are referring to. If I am in error, forgive me.

[i']

The government-blasting Tea Party doesn't want any changes to two of the government's biggest programs. The vast majority of Tea Party supporters - 70% - oppose cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, a new McClatchy-Marist poll found[/i]

Now, this to me says that the Tea Party doesn't want any changes to either of those programs. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know that based on the people voting in this poll, they are not reflective of the Tea Party vote. The statement goes on to say that the Vast Majority of Tea Party supporters oppose cuts to each of these programs. This statement can not be accurate because one, the majority who voted are not in support of the Tea Party so it can not reflect the Vast Majority of the Tea Party and two, the question is inaccurate, as I mentioned in another post.

Having trouble figuring out what 19% of 1200 is?

No, that is 228 people. I don't believe that I was ever confused about this but again, the question is very different then what I believe is being represented in this thread.

Just out of curiosity, do you support the Tea Party?

I am and let me go a bit further and say that I am not a member of the Tea Party but I do support them. I support fiscal responsability first and foremost. I do not get involved in social issues because those are not my primary concern. I have opinions on those things, but that is not how I vote.

---------- Post added April-21st-2011 at 03:15 PM ----------

You are correct that the wording could be better. But you are stating your interpretation as fact when it is simply an interpretation. The question did not ask whether the respondent wanted to ELIMINATE those programs but whether they supported cutting them. People often talk about "cutting" military spending, rarely do I think they actually mean disbanding the Army.

No, I don't agree here Jim. It is true that I can not say with any degree of certainty that all respondents read these questions as they were stated and answered them literally as opposed to reading into them JUST Cutting some funding. The question, as stated doesn't say cut funding or cut some funding or make cuts to. It says Cut, which to me, clearly means eliminate. If I said cut Social Security, what would that mean to you? To me, it would mean make it go away. We can't know how many took this literally. This is why I say, in my original post, that it would be interesting to know what the opinions might be if the question asked were, would you be in favor of cuts to Medicaid or Medicare.

I think those are lagit questions. Then, if the answers were overwhelmingly against, I would have no problem in agreeing that you can't have it both ways.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Do you believe that you cannot be educated without going to college? Looking at the numbers it does not prove how democrats are more educated however. Simply that people with post-docs and no high school degrees voted more for democrats. Every other category is statistically insignificant.

Jesus Christ. Is every rightwing poster on this board brain damaged or intentionally obtuse?

"More eductated" means "having more goddman education." As in more letters after your name. That's all I ****ing said and it's a ****ing fact.

Democrats win large majorities of voters with advanced degrees.

I could give a **** less about people "educated in the university of life" or whatever ****ing bull**** argument you are attempting to make here.

Here is something to consider. When I post something and claim it to be a fact: It's a fact. I don't make things up.

When I post something as my opinion, I say "I think" and then post my opinion.

Unlike most of the posters here I know the bloody difference between facts and opinions and do not confuse them.

[DRSmith]

I think most of the Tea Party folks really do not understand how much wealth redistrubution and how the many of the rich get rich and how much the government is involved.

Remember when the government decided to cut out the middle man in student loans meaning banks were no longer get interest and 15% from the government? All you heard was the government took over the student loan industry.

Medicare packages which get sold through private insurarers which helps private insurance companies.

Ask the Koch brothers the folks behind AFP where they got their money, not only the government but by stealing and they got their start with help by Stalin.

If you got rid of medicare and medicaid and went single payer you would have more money for taking care of people.

[Larry]

The question, as stated doesn't say cut funding or cut some funding or make cuts to. It says Cut, which to me, clearly means eliminate.

Wow. Bet you were really happy when Bush completely eliminated the income tax, when he first took office, weren't you? And I hear that Congress recently extended the elimination of income and capital gains taxes, too.

[luckydevil]

ABQ spin is amusing.

Genuine supporters of small government have to come to terms with that fact that government programs are popular. People like government.

Wake me up when there is real anti-state movement in this country.

[doctorshockalu]

Really? So what is your definition of 'educated'

Also - let's see some of those easy to find stats your were referring to......source please.....

What's funny is that you asked for sources and they provided one.... while you make up an analogy and pass it off as evidence. Hilarious.

I 100% believe that you can become educated on issue if you spend the time researching/studying, etc... This is why I think the college marker is bogus. But I see this way of thinking a lot and I believe it wrong. I am in no way saying that college is worthless and I have a PH.D for the record.

The stat line was tongue in cheek.

I wanted stats on why democrats are more educated but the stats just showed the breakdown for Ph.d voting. Not the same thing IMO.

---------- Post added April-21st-2011 at 07:17 PM ----------

It's called "paying attention". Your source is the world around you.

For those of us with common sense, we don't require sources for every bit of info there is. We can actually see it and recognize it for ourselves.

Considering the morons who make up the entirety of the birther movement, and considering the numbers of people screaming about the horror of Sharia Law taking over the US, to the number of people who STILL believe that giving the rich all the breaks is the way to go, then it becomes quite obvious where a large number of ignorant people are casting their ballots.

And when you also factor in how many on the right run on platforms of fear (Muslims! Lib'ruls! Mexicans! Sharia Law! Death Panels! Boogety Boogety!), it's not too hard to realize that THEY have no respect for the intelligence of thir base, and their base shows them they're RIGHT by jumping at every shadow and chasing every spook they are told to see. (pardon the pun).

Just take a look at this thread for another example.

These dumbass cattle screamed high and low for cuts across the board... til it came to their piece of the pie.

Now they don't like it.

if they had any brains at all, it would not be terribly hard to figure out that calling for massive cuts will mean that everyone feels the pinch, and it might be a BIG pinch, considering how loudly they yelled about how badly everything is screwed. (You know, the "personal responsibility" they all champion. Course, advocating it and doing it are too different things, as we see.)

that is, assuming they even KNOW that Medicare and Medicaid are 100% socialized medicine programs run by the government..

Now, i could just as easily ask you to please source where you get the impression that the educated are gravitating to the Republican party?

The base is too busy demonizing people with education as "elitist" and holding up dopes like"Joe the Plumber" as icons of good ol' 'Merica

~Bang

It seems like you believe all republicans are tea baggers/birthers. I disagree.

[Larry]

It seems like you believe all republicans are tea baggers/birthers. I disagree.

Correct. They aren't all birthers. Just slightly more than half of them.

[luckydevil]

Correct. They aren't all birthers. Just slightly more than half of them.

I think it's around 45%. Yeah, a problem.

[alexey]

A lot of Tea Partiers are actually good, well meaning, honest, hard working Americans... who unfortunately have very little understanding of what the American government actually does, why it does those things, and how much those things cost.

[doctorshockalu]

Jesus Christ. Is every rightwing poster on this board brain damaged or intentionally obtuse?

"More eductated" means "having more goddman education." As in more letters after your name. That's all I ****ing said and it's a ****ing fact.

Democrats win large majorities of voters with advanced degrees.

I could give a **** less about people "educated in the university of life" or whatever ****ing bull**** argument you are attempting to make here.

Here is something to consider. When I post something and claim it to be a fact: It's a fact. I don't make things up.

When I post something as my opinion' date=' I say "I think" and then post my opinion.

Unlike most of the posters here I know the bloody difference between facts and opinions and do not confuse them.[/quote']

First assuming I'm a rightwinger would be incorrect. Second, are you truly saying you can't be educated unless you've paid people to teach you things? This is the only way?

So your argument is that since you posted it that it must be fact? All I'm asking is where is the proof. It seems like you are a Democrat and have a bias which is why it is a "fact". So what exactly is the difference between opinion and fact since the only requirement according to you is that you post it?

I do find it funny that posting general questions made you start attacking me and making false assumptions. I would think since you are a Democrat and Democrats are more educated you would not have made that error.

[Thiebear]

He stated in another thread that he does.

Further supports my belief that Tea Partiers are only slightly brighter than farm animals.

Seriously? Lets put our last 20 posts together and see whose brighter than a cow.

Was there something you wished to add to the topic or taking potshots at other posters you couldn't possibly know.

It was in this thread 1 page back:

People that need Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security shouldn't have to take cuts.

Cut the people that don't need it.

Solved.

And i'm a tea party supporter (not the highlighted one the Republicans took over) the lil ones in the states.

Always gotta bring someone down to make yourself feel better vs. pointing out your works and what you think.

Okay bird1972, tell me whats wrong with what i posted? Though you prove my point in it quite well.

[Hooper]

"More eductated" means "having more goddman education." As in more letters after your name. That's all I ****ing said and it's a ****ing fact.

Democrats win large majorities of voters with advanced degrees.

I could give a **** less about people "educated in the university of life" or whatever ****ing bull**** argument you are attempting to make here.

Here is something to consider. When I post something and claim it to be a fact: It's a fact. I don't make things up.

When I post something as my opinion' date=' I say "I think" and then post my opinion.

Unlike most of the posters here I know the bloody difference between facts and opinions and do not confuse them.[/quote']

Bravo. Best post of a great/hilarious/also depressing thread.

[Mursilis]

ABQ spin is amusing.

Genuine supporters of small government have to come to terms with that fact that government programs are popular. People like government.

If they like it so much, why aren't they willing to pay more for it? Gov't is only popular because it's "free" (well, financed by debt, which isn't really free, but the average idiot American struggles with that concept). If people actually paid for all the programs they demanded, they'd demand a few less programs.

[luckydevil]

If they like it so much, why aren't they willing to pay more for it? Gov't is only popular because it's "free" (well, financed by debt, which isn't really free, but the average idiot American struggles with that concept). If people actually paid for all the programs they demanded, they'd demand a few less programs.

Well, a lot of truth too what you are saying. People truly don't understand the cost of government,

[Thiebear]

Having trouble figuring out what 19% of 1200 is?

Just out of curiosity, do you support the Tea Party?

duely noted: the lil old ladies in housing didn't work as funny

how about: Being a libertarian we start of with default number is zero. Big numbers throw us off.

[doctorshockalu]

Well, a lot of truth too what you are saying. People truly don't understand the cost of INFLATION,

Fixed your post.

[Bang]

It seems like you believe all republicans are tea baggers/birthers. I disagree.

That's a hell of a stretch.

Here's the bottom line, though.

What is the general gameplan of republican politicians over the last decade?

Be afraid.. Muslims are out to get you, the awful terrorist sympathizer / collaborator communist **** of a president isn't even an American, everything the government touches is a disaster, your country is being taken over by evil liberals... they will take your guns, if we don't placate the rich none of us will have jobs,... Liberals want to kill your grandmother, they will take your social security, educated people think they're better than you..etc etc etc. Fear and anger.

That's not disputable, those are very distinct and very loud and very public rallying cries. The propaganda news network they espouse is SO full of **** SO often it is a regular joke among everyone BUT their viewers.

SO, when you notice that one of the largest methods used to sway voters to their cause is blatant manipulation of the basest emotions, that one of their chief operatiing directives is to distort and falsify in orde to frrighten their base into believing that anything OTHER than their 100% total and complete takeover of America is a complete disaster that will destroy their entire way of life, and that any compromise is not an option..

Well, let's just say I don't need a calculator to add up 2+2.

The Republican base may be very intelligent.

It's a shame then that their leaders don't seem to respect it in the slightest.

~Bang

[Burgold]

Second, are you truly saying you can't be educated unless you've paid people to teach you things? This is the only way?

Good Gosh. We measure the level of education someone has had by how far they've gone in school. HS... AS... BA... BS... MA... MS...MED... PHD...etc That isn't a measure of how smart someone is or how capable they are necessarily and doesn't encompass every type of learning possible, but it is a standardized accepted measure of how much education a person has received. It's really not that hard. This isn't a nit worth picking.

[The Evil Genius]

Obviously, people have a hard time comprehending the nuances between how smart someone is vs. how educated they are.

The claim wasn't that smart people tend to vote Democrat these days. The claim was that highly educated people tend to vote Democrat these days. While the two may overlap quite a bit, they can also be mutually exclusive.

For the record, I don't think its accurate to claim to be highly educated without an advanced degree to back it up.

Fair?

[Bang]

Obviously, people have a hard time comprehending the nuances between how smart someone is vs. how educated they are.

The claim wasn't that smart people tend to vote Democrat these days. The claim was that highly educated people tend to vote Democrat these days. While the two may overlap quite a bit, they can also be mutually exclusive.

For the record, I don't think its accurate to claim to be highly educated without an advanced degree to back it up.

Fair?

Very fair.

I think i'm a fairly smart guy, and I have no initials after my name to speak of.

What does it mean?

It means that most of the time that I see a job being posted that is right up my alley, and I know i can do it in my sleep better than 90% of the other applicants, I can't even apply because there are no fancy initials after my name. They typically don't accept "I've been working for myself in this industry for more than ten years and know my stuff."

It can be frustrating, because IMO it is one hell of an education running your own free lance operation, and my experience in that along with my graphic know how and natural creativity would make me eminently more qualified than most of the BAs and such who have no idea how a business runs along with their art in the real world.

~Bang

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Obviously, people have a hard time comprehending the nuances between how smart someone is vs. how educated they are.

The claim wasn't that smart people tend to vote Democrat these days. The claim was that highly educated people tend to vote Democrat these days. While the two may overlap quite a bit, they can also be mutually exclusive.

For the record, I don't think its accurate to claim to be highly educated without an advanced degree to back it up.

Fair?

Venn Diagram anyone?

[The Evil Genius]

Venn Diagram anyone?

I didn't want to be accused of being elitist.

:nerd: