elkabong82 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 blah blah blah. Stop bull rushing them. Yep, pretty much what I expected from someone who can only conjure up weak sauce, 1 sentence replies. There's a 3 in your age where a 1 is supposed to be. You do realize he does more than just bull rush, that some of those holds came when he was rushing on the outside trying to get around the OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins804 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 There is another weakness of Orakpo that doesn't have to do with his technique per say. The man is a beast early but definitely fatigues late in the game. I don't know if that is due to lack of endurance or simply the fact that no one can keep their motor going at such a high level for an extended period of time. That is were speed and power become a disadvantage and savvy/nifty moves become important. Orakpo relies heavily on his speed and sheer power but that can't be maintained for 4 quarters. I hope they address that as well this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travdaskin Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I don't mind him not having "a lot" of moves. What I don't like is he is as strong as an ox yet can't contain the run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I don't mind him not having "a lot" of moves. What I don't like is he is as strong as an ox yet can't contain the run? It was his first year as an OLB and in a 3-4, and it was just his 2nd NFL season. Cut the man some slack, he's already showing the recognition he needs to improve (maturity) and the desire to do so (drive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Yep, pretty much what I expected from someone who can only conjure up weak sauce, 1 sentence replies. There's a 3 in your age where a 1 is supposed to be.You do realize he does more than just bull rush, that some of those holds came when he was rushing on the outside trying to get around the OL? And attacking me personally is what I'd expect from you as well. Save all of your valuable insight for somebody who cares about what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 And attacking me personally is what I'd expect from you as well. Save all of your valuable insight for somebody who cares about what you think. Right now, you're the one who'd draw a flag. I suggest you change your technique in this thread if you wish to continue to post. On topical content you're incorrect, but the flag would be based on conduct. Adjust the conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 If Haslett is helping him developing moves, then I'm not optimistic for Orakpo's sucess. (j/k) Orakpo should pick the brains of some of his pro bowl team mates for new moves. If anything he should be watching game tape of other pass rushers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I still say it's ****ing bull**** that he has to just 'oh give in' and adjust his game. Why aren't refs accountable for ignoring rules when they're broken. If Rak has to change his game to be effective, then they need to go ahead and change the rule. It's just gonna blow off like "oh well, thats the NFL". No it isn't. All the other rules are strictly enforced. Bah. ---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 01:48 PM ---------- The way Orakpo sounded this season, it's like he wanted the rules of the game to change rather than adjust his game to the rules. I like that he recognizes that it's partially his fault that he's held so often and made ineffective. wait wait, what? NO, the rules are: you cannot grab a guy around the neck. He was constantly being grabbed around the neck. He's a 2 time pro bowler in 2 years because he's simply stronger and faster than the lineman he's engaging. He REALLY is that strong. Look him up, what he does in the weight room is insane. The only 'adjustment' that's been going on is lineman getting beat and pushed backwards so much that they just grab onto him. That's the definition of a hold. Rak has trained and trained and worked really hard, and I would say, what more do you want the guy to do? Well, we're asking him to become Dwight Freeny, which he is not. That's not his skill set. But because refs didn't feel like throwing flags near him this year, it's his fault and he needs to adjust his game? He's already a pro bowler but he doesn't have 'enough moves'? Sure more moves would be nice but you shouldn't force a guy into changing his game over a bunch of no-calls. You don't ask Yao Ming and Dwight Howard to work on their 3 point jumper. (I know thats a stretch, but you get me..) If the refs WERE throwing all the flags they should have, nobody would be saying "rak needs more moves". They'd be saying "Rak is a BEAST and don't NEED anymore moves". We've all agreed these were, in fact, holds all year, so why is everyone siding with the refs here? Am I alone in this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 If the refs are not siding with Orakpo, then something is obviously wrong here! The odds of the refs changing for him are slim, so stop crying about it and see what you can do so you won't be relying so heavily on the refs! Seems like that's Orakpo's plan, so I'm happy about that. Don't misunderstand me, because I'm not siding with the refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 If the refs WERE throwing all the flags they should have, nobody would be saying "rak needs more moves". They'd be saying "Rak is a BEAST and don't NEED anymore moves". We've all agreed these were, in fact, holds all year, so why is everyone siding with the refs here? Am I alone in this?? Obviously we'd all love to see these flags getting thrown as much as you would but it isn't happening. We aren't the only team that misses out on holding calls. There is holding on nearly every play. Sometimes they call it, sometimes they don't. Regardless of whether he is getting held or not he still needs to develop multiple moves. He is an amazing athlete but he can't simply rely on being more athletic than his opponent. A variety of moves will increase his already high rate of success as the OT will have more to worry about. Without an inside move the lineman can cheat to the outside on their first step. He still wins a lot of his matchups but imagine what he could do without this disadvantage? No one is asking him to be Dwight Freeney. There is more to pass rushing than a spin move. No one is asking Yao Ming to solely work on their 3 pointer but do you think he never practices it? Rak can keep the bullrush as his primary move but developing some sort of variety is only going to help his game. If he had never been held in his career he should still be doing it. That's just how you get better as a pass rusher. Rak is a beast, but he still needs more moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The refs enforce the game according to league rules yet to their personal judgment/discretion so, if he is getting held and they aren't calling it as it is, then he has the right attitude in that he has to find a way to still be effective and get to the qb. He rarely gets calls with the technique he's using so no point in repeating the same thing over and over with the same outcome and think somewhow the results are going to change at some point..make an adjustment, take the refs out of the game and make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigricky3469 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Watching him play is so frustrating, he seems to be so one dimensional that after he's like stop he seems to just give up on so many plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Watching him play is so frustrating, he seems to be so one dimensional that after he's like stop he seems to just give up on so many plays. Maybe that is why the coaches are going to work with him this offseason to improve his technique on how to get to the QB faster and more efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B55Green Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Didnt Manley or Mann say they would be willing to come in to help teach the D line? I forget which one said it, but I could have sworn one was willing to help teach the guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Orakpo should have had 30 sacks this season. The man is a beast, and has the potential to be more fierce than Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas ever was. I don't recall Demarcus Ware or any other rushing LB being held as much as Brian Orakpo was held last year. Hopefully the refs will call it more next season when the holds happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaSkins27 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 On one of the episodes of Inside the NFL a week or two ago Warren Sapp told a story about being held, something along the lines of (off memory): "I love quarterbacks they made my money, I love em', I hate guards and centers though they play dirty. When I was a rookie I was held by a guard inside so I went complaining to the ref and said "REF HE HELD ME!" The ref said to me "Grow up this is the NFL". So I was like okay, I'm not asking for that again, time to grow up." It looks like Orakpo's growing up. :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think there is a common middle ground both sides can find here. Orakpo is only about to be a third year player, going to be entering his prime. To suggest we have seen the maximum that we are going to get out of him is a bit premature. There is no reason at all to think he is still not learning technique from the coaches. I am sure there are plenty of things he works on every week depending on the matchup he has. We also can't forget this was the first year transitioning to a 3-4 defense which brought a lot of new assignments and responsibilities. With that said, it does come off as pretty ridiculous that Orakpo seems to get hooked around the neck a lot, and it is specifically because O-lineman can't deal with his combination of speed & power. He will draw a holding call on one play, and then two plays later the exact same thing happens, but gets no call...and then a big play by the opposing team. It's one thing when there is a "gray area" type holding involving an O-lineman's hands "were the inside or outside, it was kind of close" but being hooked around the neck is probably one of the most obvious easy calls by an official to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Right now, you're the one who'd draw a flag. I suggest you change your technique in this thread if you wish to continue to post. On topical content you're incorrect, but the flag would be based on conduct. Adjust the conduct. Totally agree. Seems to me Kindred has been the jerk in this thread from the get go. Not only that but he appears to be wrong. Most of the non-calls I saw on Rak came on his outside rush, not the bull rush. A guy hooks when he is beaten to the outside most often like the Dallas game. We all saw the play against the Bucs. It pissed me off too. I'm with Dirt, I think it's BS that the refs simply stopped calling it. There wasn't one Dallas fan who complained about the call that decided the opener. Why that call stopped being made is inexcusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Totally agree. Seems to me Kindred has been the jerk in this thread from the get go. Not only that but he appears to be wrong. Most of the non-calls I saw on Rak came on his outside rush, not the bull rush. A guy hooks when he is beaten to the outside most often like the Dallas game.We all saw the play against the Bucs. It pissed me off too. I'm with Dirt, I think it's BS that the refs simply stopped calling it. There wasn't one Dallas fan who complained about the call that decided the opener. Why that call stopped being made is inexcusable. Yes, IMO the head of referees either needs to get with the teams and state the rule will be changed to not call this particular type of holding or he needs to get with the referees and tell them to make the call because it is the rule. There should be no gray area with this. The refs are always in position to see this on any given play. I have to imagine that MS has sent in the film on more than one occasion and requested an explanation. After all it was no secret Orakpo was being held in this manner all season. I am very curious as to what the response was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A lot of those holds don't get called because Orakpo simply doesn't have that star respect factor. It's like in the NBA, the superstars get the benefit of the doubt. If he were someone like Ware or Merriman, a more established name(I won't say Matthews because he has only recently gotten national attention), more holds would be called, which means he wouldn't be held as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A lot of those holds don't get called because Orakpo simply doesn't have that star respect factor. It's like in the NBA, the superstars get the benefit of the doubt. If he were someone like Ware or Merriman, a more established name(I won't say Matthews because he has only recently gotten national attention), more holds would be called, which means he wouldn't be held as often. Well with 2 consecutive pro bowls I would hope his star status is recognized soon. If the holds were called he would already be there. Chicken vs Egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My coaches in Pop Warner always told us to pinch the OL if he is holding you. It worked well for me, but Im not sure it would help Rak much Also, I know Trent Williams is big, but is it me or is my avatar massive?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My coaches in Pop Warner always told us to pinch the OL if he is holding you. It worked well for me, but Im not sure it would help Rak much A goose or a nut shot would stop that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Fan82 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 They should bring Charles Mann or Ken Harvey in to coach him up, like the Packers brought in Kevin Greene to coach up Clay Matthews. Didn't know GB did that. Awesome. and Sir Chalres (the REAL Sir Charles) working with Rak...that would be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Shanahan needs to channel Phil Jackson and put the refs on notice about this in the media. Even if it means taking one for the team and getting fined. Some of these holds could be the difference in forcing an INT or a sack/fumble and maybe the game. ---------- Post added January-31st-2011 at 12:19 PM ---------- Well with 2 consecutive pro bowls I would hope his star status is recognized soon.If the holds were called he would already be there. Chicken vs Egg. Stars don't get as alternates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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