Some things you need to understand

[KDawg]

KDawg you and I both know I'm not the biggest on Newton and I've stated my concerns about him numerous times. The one thing I want to ask you is this. Pacman Jones made mistakes in college and got into trouble and it turned out it continued into the NFL and got him into major trouble. I'm not saying Newton is going to end up with a year suspension and into trouble but sometimes players will still get into trouble.

Pacman is an entirely different breed of person as Newton. I have seen nothing from Newton that indicates he's a bad person. PacMan on the other had has always exuded that trait. He's mellowed now and seems to have matured a bit.

Also the comparison of calling the Delaware offense gimmicky is kind of funny because they run a spread offense just like most schools do expect they make their QB's make reads and such. Newton on the other hand pretty much has 2 guys runs routes and if they aren't open he just runs. That's my main concern. Can he make those reads? I don't know and I'm very concerned about that

The spread is a "gimmicky" offense. At least when it comes to translating to the pros. It's not a pro style offense. It was a knock on Tebow. It's been a knock on a lot of quarterbacks.

It's a valid concern. But does the reward outweigh the risk if he can be taught? We have to trust our talent evaluators *shudder* to ask Newton the right questions... Regarding his choices, his character AND the football stuff. If there's an indication he can learn, I think we need to pull the trigger if he's there. If we have genuine concerns, trade back and see what happens.

[Dukes and Skins]

Pacman is an entirely different breed of person as Newton. I have seen nothing from Newton that indicates he's a bad person. PacMan on the other had has always exuded that trait. He's mellowed now and seems to have matured a bit.

The spread is a "gimmicky" offense. At least when it comes to translating to the pros. It's not a pro style offense. It was a knock on Tebow. It's been a knock on a lot of quarterbacks.

It's a valid concern. But does the reward outweigh the risk if he can be taught? We have to trust our talent evaluators *shudder* to ask Newton the right questions... Regarding his choices, his character AND the football stuff. If there's an indication he can learn, I think we need to pull the trigger if he's there. If we have genuine concerns, trade back and see what happens.

Some spread offenses though are not "gimmicky" some actually make the QB's make reads and that's what Delaware runs. Look at Pat Devlin this year and look at the Flacco years they were forced to make reads and help the team win. With the Pacman reference I'm not in any way shape or form saying they are the same but people who have character issues sometimes end up with the same issues in the pros.

I think though the risk with Newton is much higher than it is with any other QB in this draft and probably the next 4 drafts looking at some of the QB's available in the next couple of years. Newton has a lot of potential and I don't deny that but I just am very concerned that he can never be able to run a pro style offense like we run here.

[KDawg]

Some spread offenses though are not "gimmicky" some actually make the QB's make reads and that's what Delaware runs. Look at Pat Devlin this year and look at the Flacco years they were forced to make reads and help the team win. With the Pacman reference I'm not in any way shape or form saying they are the same but people who have character issues sometimes end up with the same issues in the pros.

I think though the risk with Newton is much higher than it is with any other QB in this draft and probably the next 4 drafts looking at some of the QB's available in the next couple of years. Newton has a lot of potential and I don't deny that but I just am very concerned that he can never be able to run a pro style offense like we run here.

All valid concerns that I can live with. But you have to agree, if he is capable of making the reads... he could be a MAJOR step forward for this franchise. But again, it's a risk.

That said, there are also cases of guys doing stupid things in college and having no problems in the NFL. Look at Reggie Bush.

The cheating scandal was bad, but it was a few years ago. He was extremely young. It happens. It doesn't make it okay, but if he learned from it than it's water under the bridge.

[Conn]

Newton has a lot of potential and I don't deny that but I just am very concerned that he can never be able to run a pro style offense like we run here.

I would hope that, if he's REALLY the guy Shanahan covets, they'd create an offense around him, rather than just plugging him into our current one. You have to do that with any prospect for full maximization of their potential.

I'm not talking about HUGE changes that would set back the rest of our offense, who have already accumulated almost a year in this system. But just some changes, with the same verbiage. To better fit his athleticism.

[daveakl]

Albert for a 4th.

McNabb for a 3rd

Our 1st, the 3rd from McNabb, the 4th from Albert, and Cooley for Luck.

[TheGoodBits]

Albert for a 4th.

McNabb for a 3rd

Our 1st, the 3rd from McNabb, the 4th from Albert, and Cooley for Luck.

Did it work in Madden?

[daveakl]

Did it work in Madden?

hahaha, in madden we would have won the super bowl

[skinsrbeast]

Here is some more things everyone needs to understand.

This season was a wash. Was always going to be a wash. New coach, new defense (damnit Haslett), new qb, new expectations, uncertain CBA future, few free agents, few draft picks.

It sucks. But its football. Its rebuilding. Or retooling. Only time will tell, and this is the one thing that is certain. TIme. Time to know if Shanahan is a success. Time to conclude if the 3-4 will be a hit.

Sure there has been negatives. In the ****ing boatload. AH, McNabb's cardio-vascular strength. Loosing to the lions. 32nd ranked defense. Rabach. The list goes on and on.

But the positive is hope. Maybe we have a good no-nonsense coach. Maybe we have a ****ty egotistical coach who hires his son and refuses to acknowledge his faults.

We don't know. And won't know until enough time has passed. It's time to do what we have been saying for years that we want to do but have constantly refused to. Sit back, and wait.

Wait for Shanahan to fail! Or wait for Shanaha to succeed! But one thing is certain, without enough time all we have is speculation and frustration which will get us nowhere.

Except for heartbreaks and losing records.

It's time to let Time take its course

---------- Post added December-19th-2010 at 09:08 PM ----------

Albert for a 4th.

McNabb for a 3rd

Our 1st, the 3rd from McNabb, the 4th from Albert, and Cooley for Luck.

[daveakl]

How about no!

Any reason why? This kid is projected to be one of the best QB's ever to come out of college.

[eljeasel]

Any reason why? This kid is projected to be one of the best QB's ever to come out of college.

Because its just a projection. Thats 3 pretty high draft picks, and a probowler for a question mark.

[visionary]

If we get Newton I hope they make damn sure he can run our offense before we pull the trigger.

[SellersHappens]

One thing you can say is that Cam Newton certainly knows how to play professionally.

[seriously]

One thing you can say is that Cam Newton certainly knows how to play professionally.

So did Jason Campbell, ironically both from Auburn, both did well in an "off" year in the SEC.......

[newage_hog]

Serious question.... what type of offense did Bradford run at Oklahoma? Also why is everyone saying Newton would have a problem with our offense? Last i checked he's run 3 different offenses his last 3 yrs playing football and has done pretty well.

[visionary]

Also why is everyone saying Newton would have a problem with our offense? Last i checked he's run 3 different offenses his last 3 yrs playing football and has done pretty well.

I didn't know that. That seems somewhat reassuring. Then again, didn't Campbell run a bunch of offenses too?

[SkinsTillIDie]

IF Shanny can't get the QB he's been watching a lot of film on in the Draft, then that ups the chance of McNabb returning. Though Shanny does have his eye on someone in the Draft, it just depends on if we cam be able to move up to get him.

Seriously, TK -- could you be any more vague?

The notion that Shanahan is "watching a lot of film" of ANY prospect in the draft is downright ridiculous. Between the 18 hour work days at Redskin Park just preparing the team to play on Sundays, where is he going to find this abundance of time to watch college prospects? Especially when the long Winter months of the offseason are ahead in just a few weeks.

You are saying a lot here without actually saying anything. Shanahan said more himself on Thursday: 'I'm not sure what I'm going to do in the college draft, if we're able to get the top quarterback in the draft, if there was a young Donovan McNabb or maybe a Sam Bradford, someone like that.' There's a lot of possibilities." -- (the Bradford comparison surely applies to Luck, and the "young McNabb" to Newton)

There is no "chance" that McNabb is returning -- not after the way he's been treated, and not with the way he's practiced during the duration of the season. This is a marriage that is undoubtedly ending in a quick divorce, and Shanahan would sooner go to war with Grossman or Beck in a game that means anything than prepare for another season with McNabb at the helm.

[newage_hog]

Yes Campbell did but he has never put 2 teams on his back and will them to numerous wins..... Yes, I am a Cam fan but you cant tell me a guy with that much passion and drive isnt gonna study his butt off and get it done if Shanahan works with him and believes in him.

[skinsrbeast]

Obviously Shanny wants a good qb from the draft. Everyone does.

[visionary]

Obviously Shanny wants a good qb from the draft. Everyone does.

I just really hope he picks the right one.

Whoever that is.

[da#1skinsfan]

Seriously, TK -- could you be any more vague?

The notion that Shanahan is "watching a lot of film" of ANY prospect in the draft is downright ridiculous. Between the 18 hour work days at Redskin Park just preparing the team to play on Sundays, where is he going to find this abundance of time to watch college prospects? Especially when the long Winter months of the offseason are ahead in just a few weeks.

You are saying a lot here without actually saying anything. Shanahan said more himself on Thursday: 'I'm not sure what I'm going to do in the college draft, if we're able to get the top quarterback in the draft, if there was a young Donovan McNabb or maybe a Sam Bradford, someone like that.' There's a lot of possibilities." -- (the Bradford comparison surely applies to Luck, and the "young McNabb" to Newton)

There is no "chance" that McNabb is returning -- not after the way he's been treated, and not with the way he's practiced during the duration of the season. This is a marriage that is undoubtedly ending in a quick divorce, and Shanahan would sooner go to war with Grossman or Beck in a game that means anything than prepare for another season with McNabb at the helm.

How long have you been around this site? I dont know if TK knows what hes talking about or just puts on a show, but in any event, it's always vague...and almost never leads you to the truth...and thats certainly by design. Every single post from our "insiders" (save a few) is very vague...and thats the point. I think these guys 98% of the time just post stuff up to get a rise out of the EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMEskinners and their knee jerk reactions. The one thing that remains constant, much like the original post in this thread, these guys lead you to believe something...whether its the truth or not seems like a crapshoot. That either tells me their agenda is one coming from complete ignorance, or one where they want to confuse the masses even further. In either case, no one is posting "the truth" and again, Im sure thats by design.

On another note, 4 months before the draft, I'm SURE Shanny has been watching film, even if its some highlights here and there. Hell he was probably watching film on these guys in 2009, knowing he'd be back in the league in a position to draft someone.

[LD0506]

How long have you been around this site? I dont know if TK knows what hes talking about or just puts on a show, but in any event, it's always vague...and almost never leads you to the truth...and thats certainly by design. Every single post from our "insiders" (save a few) is very vague...and thats the point. I think these guys 98% of the time just post stuff up to get a rise out of the EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMEskinners and their knee jerk reactions. The one thing that remains constant, much like the original post in this thread, these guys lead you to believe something...whether its the truth or not seems like a crapshoot. That either tells me their agenda is one coming from complete ignorance, or one where they want to confuse the masses even further. In either case, no one is posting "the truth" and again, Im sure thats by design.

Damn, that's an embarrassing post.

[tshile]

Seriously, TK -- could you be any more vague?

The notion that Shanahan is "watching a lot of film" of ANY prospect in the draft is downright ridiculous. Between the 18 hour work days at Redskin Park just preparing the team to play on Sundays, where is he going to find this abundance of time to watch college prospects? Especially when the long Winter months of the offseason are ahead in just a few weeks.

You are saying a lot here without actually saying anything. Shanahan said more himself on Thursday: 'I'm not sure what I'm going to do in the college draft, if we're able to get the top quarterback in the draft, if there was a young Donovan McNabb or maybe a Sam Bradford, someone like that.' There's a lot of possibilities." -- (the Bradford comparison surely applies to Luck, and the "young McNabb" to Newton)

There is no "chance" that McNabb is returning -- not after the way he's been treated, and not with the way he's practiced during the duration of the season. This is a marriage that is undoubtedly ending in a quick divorce, and Shanahan would sooner go to war with Grossman or Beck in a game that means anything than prepare for another season with McNabb at the helm.

what? how is that vague.

if there's someone he wants in the draft, and he can move up to get him, he will. makes complete sense.

if he can't get to the spot he needs to, or if there isn't someone he wants next year, then he'll go with the best veteran option he has.

sounds pretty cut and dry to me, and pretty much like common sense...

not to mention TK is one of the more well informed, as well as level headed and unbiased, people on the forum...

[da#1skinsfan]

Damn, that's an embarrassing post.

Not sure how.

Just my .02...not digging on TK or anyone else, just saying take a step back and think about it....these posts need to be vague. If someone was close enough to Shanny to be able to honestly say "he loves Cam Newton, he has been watching film every week and will do what it takes to draft him" do you think they would post it up on a messageboard for the public?

[GaryGreenMonk]

TK managed to state the obvious in a format that conveys some sort of inside knowledge.

neat.

How about I just state the obvious for everyone and skip the clouded secrecy part...

Mike likes Andrew Luck. If we can't move up to get him.. then McNabb may stick around unless they are impressed by Grossman enough to stick with him.

[MartinC]

Someone on the "Newton is a bust" bandwagon... please explain to me why you think that. I'm talking specifics... Or are you just saying it based on nothing?

First my disclaimer. I have seen Newton play twice on TV so that's not a great deal to base an opinion on.

However from what I have seen he is a guy who relies on his athletic ability and runs a two read offense, read deep, read check down run. I always worry about QBs who are called athletic when being praised more than talked about for their passing. I worry about his ability to read NFL coverages and function in a complex WCO based system like we run here. I worry also about his off field issues and to what extent he loves football or he loves the money and status that being a top QB brings.

To be a successful NFL QB takes dedication and a work ethic over and above any other position.

Add it all up and I see a boom or bust guy and I lean toward bust.

Blaine Gabbert is my guy but he might not come out this year. If he does I would take him before any QB in the draft except Luck.