Getting better, but skill positions powerless...

[CounterTrey]

Well I don't consider the 5th 6th and 7th rounds all that great of picks. I mean give me a break we have a 1st and a 2nd. We don't have a 3rd or a 4th where you can get steals like sleeper RBs. So again I say we only really have 2 good picks with a hell of a lot more holes than that.

Dude, we don't have a 2nd next year...I think that goes for Mcnabb this year right plus a conditional 3rd or 4th next year. So we have 1, 3 or 4 and then 5-7.

Someone please correct me if I'm worng

[Conn]

Dude, we don't have a 2nd next year...I think that goes for Mcnabb this year right plus a conditional 3rd or 4th next year. So we have 1, 3 or 4 and then 5-7.

Someone please correct me if I'm worng

You're wrong, the second was for this past draft. We have:

1

2

5,5

6

7,7

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I'm ok with the progress of this team. I am NOT one of those guys who sit there and posts playoff scenarios or thinks about how we could maybe get in there. It isn't possible this season. Everyone please accept that and move on.

Excellent post. I agree with you on almost both points. Moss is a good solid #2 receiver. I think most of us have realized that since the 2005 season when teams would double Moss and the game was over. Think Seattle, playoffs (2005). So yes, we need a solid #1 WR. I don't care if they draft him or trade for him. Just get it done.

The running back is key along with the offensive line. To be honest with you though I don't think this is an area of need. Sure it would be great to have an explosive back but if the offensive line ever gets fixed I think we'll be fine with someone average.

[darrelgreenie]

First of all, Moss and Cooley aren't bonifide targets if they're constantly dropping passes.

If you can't admit that Moss and Cooley are bonafide NFL WR/TE then this conversation is already pointless because its impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who isn't willing to accept basic truths.

Could our coaching been better, of course, but the point still remains that none of our skill position players are consistently getting the job done.

The flip side of that coin is that the coaching staff isn't helping us maximize the talent that we do have.

Even if Davis isn't getting targeted, is it possible he isn't getting open consistently to help as a 3rd or 4th option, cause you can't argue he's been more consistent then Moss or Cooley. And this isn't just this game, this has been going on all year, man.

Well IF you look at the catch % and YPC average Davis is the one of the best if not the best target on the team.

2nd i'm not saying that he's been more consistent then Moss or Cooley.

3rd Davis has to be on the field running a route to even have a chance get targeted and if you look at the weekly snap count that comcast puts out he's not on the field that much.

I seriously doubt that Davis can't get open because he was getting open plenty last year when he was the starting TE and it should be even easier to get open now because as the 2nd TE or 3rd receiving option your don't face the quality of pass defender as the starting TE.

Long story short if he could get open last year he should have an easier time getting open this year.

The onus in on the offensive coaching staff.

Did it look like Davis couldn't get open to you during the 1st series?

And as crazy as it sound, Bears is a bad example. We have the 9th rated passing attack in the league right now, Chicago is 27

You're right about the Bears they probably are a bad example but our receiving corps has talent.

Talent gap is wide enough you can see the difference between our WR and RB core and that of our division rivals. Its not even close, and it shows, it hurts us every game. We won't be able to get over the top unless we fix it.

Our WRs are less talented as a group but again imo we don't know enough about or Williams Armstrong or Austin

But our TEs are probably the best tandem in the division

We don't know what we have w/ Williams yet and know even less about Davis; they could be out of the league next year or they could be 1700 yard combo.

Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw were once nobodies.

Well you can always use more talent but imo talent starts from the inside out.

Again talent is relative Hillis was showing promise with Shanahan but collected dust w/ McDaniels then became a beast w/ Browns.

Shanahan has a long track record of getting production and finding talent from the UDFA and castoffs of the NFL.

The Rams and Giants are winning w/ 3rd and 4th string WRs as starters.

Edit: Look at the Bears today.

The Pats are getting it done w/ 2 TEs and Wes Welker and some dude named Tate.

Teams are getting it done in many different ways.

Its up to the coaches to maximize the talent we have and as long as Fred Davis remains the 6th/7th targeted receiver on the team i'm gonna question wether they're making the best use of our talent.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think we need upgrades in a lot of places. I think we'd be a good-enough offense if we added a #1 WR (I believe that players like Austin, Armstrong, and Moss can fill out a WR corps if they had a stud playing alongside of them) and 2 new OL starters. That would give us a solid running game and some production from the passing game. I think that our young stable of RBs is certainly capable of providing the yardage on the ground that are needed in today's NFL. It's a passing league.

[Renegade7]

DG,

Maybe our definitions of "bonafide" differ, so this debate isn't a total lost cause. To me, bonafide means not just good, but great. In Moss and Cooley, niether are top 5 at their position, and constantly dropping 3rd down conversions or having them pop off them for interceptions. Good, yes, bonafide, imo, hell no.

And coming into this game, our #2 wr never played a game in the NFL until this season. Our starting running back is a rookie undrafted free agent. We are not that talented, so it's difficult to "maximize" this "talent". And this ain't Zorn, Shanny demands players earn their right onto the field. Granted, when Davis catches the ball he's a beast. Key: when he catches the ball. Forget last year, this year he isn't earning his right to be on the field, and that's because he isn't consistently taking advantage of his oppurtunites in 2010. There's no patience for it, that's why the likes of Devin Thomas and Marko Mitchell are gone.

The one thing we do know about Armstrong, Williams, or Austin last year is none of them played in the NFL last year, and Shanny sees them every day. They may develop into great starters, but they aren't right now. So until they can prove that's what they are capable of, we can either A: stick with them and pray they develop, or B. Get players better then them to put ahead of them until they develop to our hopeful expectations. One was hasn't worked for us in a while, the other is a little more to the liking of my favorite aggressive billion dollar franchise.

We may have a talented TE core, but it doesn't stretch the field like a talented WR core, which we don't have, and need to get over the top. That's the point of this thread.

Jacobs and Bradshaw developed behind the likes of Tiki Barber before they took over and one a super bowl. Hillis got dumped by McDaniels, not Shanny, and didn't take off until his 3rd season on another franchise. We don't have 3 years to see if Williams will "develop", McNabb ain't getting any younger. And mind you, Williams wasn't our first option going into this season to begin with; he's our 3rd string running back.

The Rams have one of the best running backs in the game with Jackson, and the giants have the #2 defense and one of the better o-lines in the NFL. We have none of that, nor do we have a superbowl MVP as our #1 WR like the patriots do. Truth, teams make it work every game, but most have more to work with then we do. Not to mention our defense has slowly had to adjust into this new scheme, which we could at least give majority blame for at least two losses this season.

I wish Davis would get targeted more, too, but we still need more talent on offense to really blossom the way I know we can. It's not here, this game proved it.

[authentic]

When our best offensive weapon is a return man (sorry santana, you officially got bumped today), that's just not good enough. If we hold someone to 17 points or less, we should win. Enough of the finger pointing and blame gaming, we need more talent. But that's just my opinion...

:helmet:

You're singing to the choir bro....You're singing to the choir..

[KDawg]

DG,

The Bears have Johnny Knox, who is an EXCELLENT number two option in the receiving corps. Devin Hester is a burner and no slouch, but I'd say he's a #3. The Bears are missing a number one receiver... Just like we are.

Renegade,

I'd put Cooley in the top 5 at his position. But I'm not sure anyone else on our team that's not currently on IR, at least offensively, is even in the top 10. That's an issue. You might even struggle to find top 20 talent on our offense.

[Fred Jones]

Of course we need more talent. That is the one that that everyone agrees upon.

People differ on which position to target in the draft. I still think you have to build the lines. That doesn't mean you can't grab a skill player, but I think we are another draft away from that. We are still playing catch-up to the all the years Vinny neglected the lines.

I still say that Shanny can continue to find RB's in the low rounds. Improved line play will make the current RB's better. As far as WR, just don't spend a draft choice to acquire one in FA.

I really hope BMW's can contribute next year allowing us to draft one Oline and one Dline player with the first two picks in an ideal situation. Of course, that would be ideal and may not be reality depending on player availability and draft position.

[darrelgreenie]

Maybe our definitions of "bonafide" differ, so this debate isn't a total lost cause. To me, bonafide means not just good, but great. In Moss and Cooley, niether are top 5 at their position, and constantly dropping 3rd down conversions or having them pop off them for interceptions. Good, yes, bonafide, imo, hell no.

I didn't know there were multiple definition of bona fides but from my statement:

Tana is a bona fide NFL WR and Cooley is a bona fide TE they dropped some balls.

All i'm saying is that they're vested or proven NFL WR/TE.

A bad game doesn't change that.

But, to each his own.

And coming into this game, our #2 wr never played a game in the NFL until this season.

At some point everyone has never played a game in the NFL.

Armstrong could turn out to be a quality NFL WR he seems off to a good start.

He's shown he's good enough to make plays at this level.

(And he might be more established by now if Joey Galloway didn't poach/waste 32 targets that could/should have gone to Armstrong-again coaching)

Our starting running back is a rookie undrafted free agent.

I could counter with a long list of Shanahan UDFA or just league wide NFL UDFA but its simpler to point to Keiland production from the 2 previous games.

Keiland has shown that he can play at this level he's not flashy he's just a solid worker that produces.

Imo Kyle/staff made a mistake by:

1) not running the ball more in a 17-13 game (we ran the ball 9 times-9 times!)

2) not running on the edges especially towards Allen and their back-up LDE after Edwards(?) got hurt

3) by going with Davis over Keiland after a successful 1st series in a game where it was gonna be tough running

We are not that talented, so it's difficult to "maximize" this "talent".

I agree.

But, when you chalk it up to talent it doesn't really matter what the players or the coaching staff does.

Imo its like a catch all that lets everyone off the hook.

We all know about our talent issues but lets actually talk about the game.

And this ain't Zorn, Shanny demands players earn their right onto the field.

I think you're making a false assumption here.

You're assuming b/c Davis isn't on the field more he hasn't earned the right.

But how do you know?

Granted, when Davis catches the ball he's a beast. Key: when he catches the ball

If you're implying that Davis doesn't catch the ball when its thrown to him you're wrong.

Davis has the highest catch rate on the team (he's had it all season btw).

Davis catches 67% of his passes. Moss 66%. Cooley 64%.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

According to their metric he's the 5th ranked TE in the NFL.

Forget last year, this year he isn't earning his right to be on the field, and that's because he isn't consistently taking advantage of his oppurtunites in 2010.

You say to forget last year but imo Davis proved and his stats support (at least imo) that he's an starting caliber NFL TE (bona fide if you will).

So its seem wrong headed to say we lack talent yet dismiss imo our 3rd most talented receiving option on a team starved for talent.

See above for the bolded portion of your post.

Get players better then them to put ahead of them until they develop to our hopeful expectations.

Everyteam should always look to add more talent.

But, WR and RB are not where i would spend top level resources to add talent via draft or FA on this team.

I would start inside out.

Look at the Rams they have nothing at the skill positions WR/TE but the have a stout OL.

Having a stout OL gives any set a skill position players a chance to suceed.

We may have a talented TE core, but it doesn't stretch the field like a talented WR core, which we don't have, and need to get over the top. That's the point of this thread.

And i disagree i think we have enough talent in the passing game to have a productive passing game.

Jacobs and Bradshaw developed behind the likes of Tiki Barber before they took over and one a super bowl. Hillis got dumped by McDaniels, not Shanny, and didn't take off until his 3rd season on another franchise. We don't have 3 years to see if Williams will "develop", McNabb ain't getting any younger. And mind you, Williams wasn't our first option going into this season to begin with; he's our 3rd string running back.

I don't disagree with any of the above.

. We have none of that, nor do we have a superbowl MVP as our #1 WR like the patriots do.

Agreed.

But the Patriots were effectively using their double TE based offense from the start of the season before Branch came on board.

And speaking of talent funny how Branch looked like just a guy with Seattle but looks like a weapon with the Patriots.

Sure some of it has to do with Brady but i would argue it has more to do with the system/coaching.

I wish Davis would get targeted more, too, but we still need more talent on offense to really blossom the way I know we can. It's not here, this game proved it.

We lack talent to be sure.

But this game didn't prove that to me.

This game for me was more about lack of execution and inability to make adjustments.

Did you see how sharp the offense was on the opening series?

Our staff needs to look at what they did in the opening playcall script that they didn't do for the rest of the game. (Davis, Banks, Roydell Williams, Keiland Williams)

Eg-Did we run a screen of any sort after the 1st series?

Because imo If our offenseive gameplan/playcalling was that sharp the entire game we wouldn't speak so loudly about lack of talent.

BTW-below is the 1st series Davis was 2 for 2 with a TD: i bolded some people that touched the ball the 1st series that were forgotten the rest of the game.

Washington Redskins at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:56)

1-10-WAS 17 (14:56) K.Williams left tackle to WAS 17 for no gain (R.Edwards).

2-10-WAS 17 (14:17) (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short left to S.Moss to WAS 26 for 9 yards (H.Abdullah).

3-1-WAS 26 (13:41) D.McNabb scrambles left end to WAS 29 for 3 yards (C.Greenway, H.Abdullah). R1

1-10-WAS 29 (13:02) D.McNabb pass short left to F.Davis to WAS 35 for 6 yards (C.Greenway; A.Allen).

(12:25) (Shotgun) Direct snap to B.Banks. B.Banks left end to WAS 38 for 3 yards (H.Abdullah). QB McNabb lined

up as WR

2-4-WAS 35

3-1-WAS 38 (11:45) D.McNabb pass short right to C.Cooley to MIN 48 for 14 yards (C.Greenway, M.Williams). P2

(11:06) (Shotgun) Direct snap to B.Banks. B.Banks up the middle to MIN 45 for 3 yards (H.Abdullah; L.Guion). QB

McNabb lined up as WR

1-10-MIN 48

2-7-MIN 45 (10:28) D.McNabb pass short middle to C.Cooley to MIN 40 for 5 yards (J.Allen; A.Allen).

3-2-MIN 40 (9:42) (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short middle to C.Cooley to MIN 27 for 13 yards (H.Abdullah). P3

(9:04) D.McNabb sacked at MIN 32 for -5 yards (L.Guion). FUMBLES (L.Guion), and recovers at MIN 32.

D.McNabb to MIN 32 for no gain (J.Allen).

1-10-MIN 27

2-15-MIN 32 (8:25) (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short middle to A.Armstrong to MIN 24 for 8 yards (C.Greenway).

PENALTY on WAS-A.Armstrong, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 24.

3-12-MIN 29 (7:35) (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short left to R.Williams pushed ob at MIN 10 for 19 yards (K.Williams). P4

1-10-MIN 10 (7:13) D.McNabb pass short right to F.Davis for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN. P5

Davis 3 for 3 + TD rest of game? No targets.

[MumboSauce]

They are what they are..a 5-6 team. average, mediocre, with a bright spot here and there. There are pieces, the coaching is better..we just need players.

[darrelgreenie]

Re: our previous convo about the 'inconsistent' Fred Davis

Redskins Playing Time Vs. Vikings

http://www.csnwashington.com/11/30/10/Redskins-Playing-Time-Vs-Vikings/landing.html?blockID=363361&feedID=6355

OFFENSE (52 snaps)

RB: Keiland Williams 35, James Davis 17, Mike Sellers 10.

TE: Chris Cooley 50, Fred Davis 19.

19 snaps 3 targets 3 catches and a TD

WR: Anthony Armstrong 50, Santana Moss 48, Roydell Williams 23, Brandon Banks 4, Terrence Austin 4.

[glongest]

Okay, watching the game, going to watch it again; but this we already know:

Running back and Wide Reciever position need more talent BAD.

Defense had it's second solid game in a row, as did McNabb, so I feel a little more comfortable scratching those off my "dammit all the hell" list. We couldn't run the ball at all, we're constantly dropping passes or can't get open to begin with. And if Torain can't stay healthy, he needs to go, too, with a little bit of shopping (DeAngelo Williams and Vincent Jackson, anyone?) to go along with continuing to rebuild our o-line through the draft (free agency if someone comes up that makes sense).

Our record speaks for itself, we're better then last year. But I'm gaining more and more faith in our franchise QB and the 3-4 switch, and this rebuilding phase is in my eye ahead of schedule. Scheme and system effective, now we need the players to take us over the top. Guess what, what we need is not on the roster right now. And I don't feel need to trade away draft picks to make the jump from mediocre to an above average football team.

When our best offensive weapon is a return man (sorry santana, you officially got bumped today), that's just not good enough. If we hold someone to 17 points or less, we should win. Enough of the finger pointing and blame gaming, we need more talent. But that's just my opinion...

:helmet:

I must have seen a different game because after that performance on Sunday I am just not sure how you can say this team has improved from last year unless your only criteria is wins and losses. The offensive line has not improved, the running game has not improved, the defense is worse statistically and still cannot get stops at critical points in the game, the running game has not improved, and we still cannot score 20 points in a game. Quarterback play has been better although 3rd down conversion has been horrible, red zone scoring has been terrible, interception to touchdown ratio is not good, and the leadership to sustain drives and score points is lacking. I did not think McNabb had a good game at all. He was awesome on the first drive but after that did not look like the same guy. As for the defense, I would not be jumping up and down about holding the Vikings to 17 points, a 3 and 7 team with a quarterback who can hardly walk but somehow scrambled 10 yards for a first down to end the game, and thier best offensive player being on the sideline for most of the game. The only improvement that I see in this team is special teams, turnover ratio, and slightly better quarterback play. And we see what happens when they get no turnovers. We score 13 points and lose.

[paloosa]

What? We are getting better? We are ahead of schedule? Are you watching the same team I am?

[No_Pressure]

I think our lack of talent in the skill positions has been a glaring problem on this team ever since Art Monk left. Honestly, I know we've had a few good seasons out of guys like Michael Westbrook, Rod Gardner, Santana Moss, Lavernues Coles (sp) and others, but honestly...none of those players were #1 WR's. Moss is the closest we have come, and has had the most success for the longest out of that group. The guy can make some plays but he isn't a #1 WR. He doesn't use his body in a physical manner, he doesn't make crucial catches consistently, and he isn't a good enough route runner to be open almost every down or draw double coverage.

I think that as an offense we need to have a physical route runner at WR who can get open underneath as well as deep, isn't going to drop passes over the middle, isn't going to give up on a route, and who has sure hands.

I also believe that we may have something good on the horizon. Anthony Armstrong has shown some flashes of being a very good player. Sure he is 27 years old but I don't think that means too much since the lifespan of WR's in today's NFL seems to be increasing. Heck, Brandon Lloyd is breaking out this season and he's probably 29 or 30. I think that Armstrong has some potential to be a good WR for us. He has about 550 yards on the season and could easily finish with 800 if he keeps it up. I think Rod Smith was 25 when he was signed by the Broncos as a UDFA, and his first two seasons he barely had over 400 yards and 22 catches. When he was 27 he was finally made a full starter and went for over 1,000 yards the next 6 seasons in a row.

Now naturally no two players are the same and I'm not saying that Armstrong will be a Rod Smith type of addition. I do like what I've seen out of him and I'm excited about what he could bring to this team for years to come as he develops, sharpens his routes, and becomes completely familiar with Mike Shanahan's offense.

I don't know if he could develop into a #1 WR but regardless I'd like to see a WR as a high draft choice.

[Art McDonough]

How do we know we need better running backs when our offensive line couldn't block Fairfax High School? How do we know we need better receivers when the ball has to be released before they complete their patterns? What we NEED is players who can control the line of scrimmage. And don't get me started on the D line.

[No_Pressure]

How do we know we need better running backs when our offensive line couldn't block Fairfax High School? How do we know we need better receivers when the ball has to be released before they complete their patterns? What we NEED is players who can control the line of scrimmage. And don't get me started on the D line.

We sort of know what we have on the offensive line. To be perfectly honest when it comes to pass blocking, they haven't done a completely horrible job like they did last season, and I think a lot of that rests on the QB delivering the ball quickly and not holding on too long like Campbell did. We have an idea of what our running backs can do, and we're 50/50 on run blocking. Sometimes we open some great holes/creases- I remember a play with Davis where he was basically an arm tackle away from breaking off a massive chunk of yardage. I think it is clear what we have and have had at the WR position for a while now.

I agree with the sentiment of drafting for lines, trust me, I want our top pick and 2/4 of our first 4 picks to be linemen for the next few years until we get some solid talent and depth on both sides of the ball. I also understand that we need a possession WR to sustain drives. Moss is not it, Armstrong might develop into it- who knows. Maybe Austin has something to offer, I don't know. What I do know is that we get ourselves into a lot of stupid 3rd and 6+ situations where we pretty much need to pass, and we can't get open underneath. If we do get open, we can't hold on to the ball. I want a player who can find some room, use his body, fight for the ball, or run an outstanding route. It didn't used to be a necessity in the NFL but I think that with the league all pass happy like it is, it really is necessary these days.

[darrelgreenie]

Quarterback play has been better although 3rd down conversion has been horrible, red zone scoring has been terrible, interception to touchdown ratio is not good, and the leadership to sustain drives and score points is lacking.

Isn't this it an oxymoron QB to say that QB play is better yet everything is worse w/ the passing game: 3rd down conversion, RZ scoring, INT ratio etc...

I know McNabb is a better QB but i think its a stretch to say he's playing better.

[Frostx08]

I agree with whoever says O-line is the most important. McNabb may not be perfect, however when he has had time so far he's been able to spread the ball around. I mentioned this in another thread but there are 3 instances where I can think of to which the O-line offered solid protection. Most of the Texans game...the Titans game...and early in the Vikings game(mainly the 1st drive). In those games, McNabb spread the ball around to 8 , 8, and 5 receivers respectively. We do need talent, but if at the very least we had protection, our offense would take off even with the minimal talent...imo

I've been paying attention to the Bears...and honestly they could be a dangerous team. In fact, the only teams I can see beating them in the playoffs are the Packers and maybe the Eagles. But their defense is playing so lights out, and always has been despite the fact that the offense was struggling early

However, Martz and the offense have made adjustments. In the past 4 games the O-line has been giving solid protection and their running game has been stellar. Devin Hester is a play maker and I've seen him make people miss after making catches. Their receivers have also been making some plays and though not top notch, are probably underrated

---------- Post added December-1st-2010 at 11:58 PM ----------

I must have seen a different game because after that performance on Sunday I am just not sure how you can say this team has improved from last year unless your only criteria is wins and losses. The offensive line has not improved, the running game has not improved, the defense is worse statistically and still cannot get stops at critical points in the game, the running game has not improved, and we still cannot score 20 points in a game. Quarterback play has been better although 3rd down conversion has been horrible, red zone scoring has been terrible, interception to touchdown ratio is not good, and the leadership to sustain drives and score points is lacking. I did not think McNabb had a good game at all. He was awesome on the first drive but after that did not look like the same guy. As for the defense, I would not be jumping up and down about holding the Vikings to 17 points, a 3 and 7 team with a quarterback who can hardly walk but somehow scrambled 10 yards for a first down to end the game, and thier best offensive player being on the sideline for most of the game. The only improvement that I see in this team is special teams, turnover ratio, and slightly better quarterback play. And we see what happens when they get no turnovers. We score 13 points and lose.

The team has gotten worse in key areas as far as I'm concerned, defense especially. However, considering the strength of our schedule last year, I honestly believe last years team would finish 2-14 on this schedule(wish we still had Randle El though). I don't see last year's team beating the Packers, Eagles in the 1st game, or the Titans. Maybe even lose to the Cowboys as well

We have a respectable amount of rushing Tds, and it's not because our Running Backs have broken off big runs. Instead, McNabb has gotten us down the field several times to run it in, and it's reflective in his passing yards. Everyone knows McNabb has struggled, the fact that we've seen a few things should show good signs for the future

And our Red Zone offense has actually been pretty good in our last 5 or so games. Our early miscues in the beginnings of the season(like a dropped TD pass in the Cowboys game) among other things have muddled our vast improvement in the RedZone

[darrelgreenie]

I agree with whoever says O-line is the most important. McNabb may not be perfect, however when he has had time so far he's been able to spread the ball around.

First let me say that we do need more talent, especially along the OL.

But where you give credit to pass protection I say you gotta factor in equal parts gameplan/playcalling and QB execution.

Imo those 2 factors made the pass protection look good or at least better then the rest of the game.

You could tell Kyle and staff put a lot of work into the opening script b/c it got everyone involved, even the forgotten Fred Davis.

The pass protection wasn't great at the beginning, Hicks was getting beat from the git, but McNabb knew where he wanted to go with the ball and got the ball out quick.

Kudos to Kyle and the staff their preparation was evident in McNabb's performance.

But, imo once they got off the script the creativity dropped, as with most teams after they finish their scripted plays, but the OC has got to make adjustments.

.

[Frostx08]

First let me say that we do need more talent, especially along the OL.

But where you give credit to pass protection I say you gotta factor in equal parts gameplan/playcalling and QB execution.

Imo those 2 factors made the pass protection look good or at least better then the rest of the game.

You could tell Kyle and staff put a lot of work into the opening script b/c it got everyone involved, even the forgotten Fred Davis.

The pass protection wasn't great at the beginning, Hicks was getting beat from the git, but McNabb knew where he wanted to go with the ball and got the ball out quick.

Kudos to Kyle and the staff their preparation was evident in McNabb's performance.

But, imo once they got off the script the creativity dropped, as with most teams after they finish their scripted plays, but the OC has got to make adjustments.

.

I do agree we should use Fred Davis more

As for the pass protection and the script play calling, re-watching it the protection did hold up "enough". Of course opening drives especially are scripted, it's just a matter of execution. And there was one particular play when it broke down completely on the 1st drive, however for the most part I would say the protection held up early...where there wasn't much pressure on McNabb. Then the Vikings defense re-huddled and on the drives following the Vikings D-line just completely owned us in the trenches

[MusicCitySkin]

I agree that our O-line is a top priority, but I honestly think it can be drastically improved during FA and the draft without using our two high picks--unless we trade out for more, which isn't entirely a bad idea. However, this year's draft class isn't very impressive when it comes to O-line, therefore using our high picks on O-line, unless we land that stud center from Penn St, wouldn't be wise IMO. I say land a stud wideout with the first pick, and a stud RB with the second pick. I don't think people realize how much our offense needs homerun threats. Sustained drives are great, don't get me wrong, but defenses will adjust and then we're screwed because we lack that player that threatens to take it to the house every play.

[zoony]

we just have so many needs. I don't see us filling them before Donovan becomes too old to compete. These aren't luxuries or upgrades... these are true positions of need:

1. Wide Receiver - maybe two

2. L Guard

3. R Guard

4. R Tackle

5. Center

6. Running Back

7. Full Back- sellars is approaching 65 I think

8. Nose Tackle

9. OLB

10. MLB

11. MLB- london is old

12. CB

[Est.1974]

Zoony, I'd make it 13 & add safety.

[NewCliche21]

we just have so many needs. I don't see us filling them before Donovan becomes too old to compete. These aren't luxuries or upgrades... these are true positions of need:

1. Wide Receiver - maybe two

2. L Guard

3. R Guard

4. R Tackle

5. Center

6. Running Back

7. Full Back- sellars is approaching 65 I think

8. Nose Tackle

9. OLB

10. MLB

11. MLB- london is old

12. CB

1) We don't know what we have in Austin, Kelly, or Banks.

2-5) Our Titans game line looked very good. Let's try that again. Plus BMW was making a very good impression before his condition was discovered.

6) Anyone could do that with Shanahan once 2-5 are addressed.

7) We haven't seen anyone BUT Sellers, so it's hard to say that it's a problem area.

8) Yes.

9) Yes.

10) Yes.

11) Yeah he's old, but he's not done.

12) Disagreed.

And yeah, I agree with UK SKINS FAN, we should add free safety to that list.

It's incredible that, after a decade of only focusing on skill positions, that we are so lacking in skill positions.