Homer: Honeymoon is over for Shanahan

[Riggo#44]

Explain to me why this team can't make the playoffs in the NFC this year? Who looks so overwhelmingly good?

Quite frankly, the talent isn't there. This team is too wildly inconsistent to make the playoffs, even in the watered down NFC. And that is in all phases of the game. I think people need to calm down and look at this team rationally...

[TheLongshot]

You missed both points I was making.

Point taken.

1. Fan expectations went way up after the first 4 games.

It shouldn't have. The lost to the Rams week 3 should have moderated some of those expectations. The Lions game should serve as a reminder that this team is going to have to kick and scratch and out-effort the other guy, or we are going to lose. By now, everyone should assume that is the way all games are going to go, especially since that's the way every game we've played so far HAS gone.

2. It's the attitude.

I didn't miss that part, but attitude can only take you so far. Eventually, the lack of talent does show up. Only if you are fortunate to get hot at the right time (Giants and Cardinals comes to mind) can you overcome some of that.)

Explain to me why this team can't make the playoffs in the NFC this year? Who looks so overwhelmingly good?

The Skins are mediocre' date=' but a mediocre team is probably going to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. The Saints have been a mess all year. The Packers can't run the ball. The Giants and Eagles both have huge flaws. Why not us? [/quote']

Certainly we can make the playoffs, but for us to win in the playoffs, we need a level of consistancy that we don't have right now. We are squeaking by opponents with the barest of margins and win only because we forced the other guy to make mistakes. When they don't make many mistakes, we have the Indy and Lions games.

[megared]

Cooley's comments about Shanahan watching everything via camera was kinda freaky. I guess it helps in keeping an eye on everything, but the personal touch isn't there.

I agree with this...how much input can Shanahan have in the offense if he's sitting in an office watching the practices? Sure, he isn't up there the entire duration of practice, but if he has all of this film available at every position at every practice, why hasn't he identified what's wrong with the offense yet and fixed it? Why is his specialty the weakness of this team? Why has this team not practiced two minute drills? He isn't making his son a better coordinator, or helping McNabb be a better QB by sitting in his office like Dr. Claw

[TSO]

It's starting to feel like I'm logging into a Philadelphia Eagles message board instead of ES.

Yes, thank you. It's getting ridiculous. I'm not the type to do it, but I just hope someone is saving all of these threads and posts so those who jumped on the bashing bandwagon feel sheepish when this team looks good down the stretch. I'm sure they'll be hoping it doesn't now so as not to look as foolish and as petty as they are.

Sorry, murf, I love your material, but you went overboard on the negativity as you sometimes do. I understand, the media right now is eating this up and there are plenty of drama queens looking to be fed drama, but come on. You claim Shanahan threw Mcnabb under the bus, yet want him to say something else... what exactly could he say that wouldn't throw Mcnabb under the bus? Then you want him to throw the Oline under the bus? Are you serious? So it's ok to blame the Oline, just don't make Mcnabb look bad in anyway... riiiiiight.

The only way else he could've put it so that it didn't make Mcnabb nor the Oline look so bad was that there were health concerns, and yesterday he did say that when he elaborated on the whole situation. He also said the reason he didn't go into that the first time around when asked is because "no offense joe, but yesterday, you know, I didn't really want to go into a lot of detail about that, you go into game situations that... you're a little disappointed, you don't have to go into a lot of detail, which I think you can understand", but yeah, I get it he's a big fat liar wah wah wah! He basically admitted he didn't want to elaborate yesterday, he wasn't happy with all that happened and wasn't going to sit there and talk about everything disappointed like that.

You know what, I'm still on my honeymoon with Shanny and Allen. You don't speak for all of us, obviously, just the drama queens of which there are plenty on ES, admittedly. I don't think the vocal majority on the internet is a good indication of what Redskin Nation feels, though the media right now is definitely doing their best to endlessly question and instigate while taking every quote out of context like it's good at doing (not that you did that here, murf, but still you definitely are adding fuel to the fire, unfortunately).

I'm sure you're going to stick to your guns here, whatever, but like bobzmuda said in the comments section under your article "So you’re upset that Shannahan isn’t telling the truth that you already know? C’mon Murph."

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Quite frankly, the talent isn't there. This team is too wildly inconsistent to make the playoffs, even in the watered down NFC. And that is in all phases of the game. I think people need to calm down and look at this team rationally...

Is the talent there in Tampa Bay? St. Louis?

[TSO]

I agree with this...how much input can Shanahan have in the offense if he's sitting in an office watching the practices? Sure, he isn't up there the entire duration of practice, but if he has all of this film available at every position at every practice, why hasn't he identified what's wrong with the offense yet and fixed it? Why is his specialty the weakness of this team? Why has this team not practiced two minute drills? He isn't making his son a better coordinator, or helping McNabb be a better QB by sitting in his office like Dr. Claw

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he review all the film of the practices and coaching AFTER practice is over? Who said he is sitting up there just watching videotape during practice itself?

This is getting ridiculous, honestly.

[TSO]

Is the talent there in Tampa Bay? St. Louis?

Arguably in Tampa, yes. St. Louis just drafted a franchise QB, which helps. He also happened to be one that we really wanted as well, but the Rams were asking for too much.

Oh, and the coaching staffs in both spots have been there now for over one season, so yeah, poor comparison. Let's see how Shanahan does in year two as compared to those teams before we start killing him. Actually, why don't we wait until the end of the season for crying out loud? I know, I know, that isn't as much fun as venting about everything after a bad loss.

[joeknows]

im with the murf on this one.... shanny compounded the problem with his presser. and he even made the statement that when he talks to the guys he doesnt go into detail and if they want his perspective they can always get it from the pressers and the media? WTF is that about?

i may not be an NFL coach but i have managed many people for many years and i cant see how anyone would respect someone that wont give them the facts about their performance straight up instead of them having to hear it from the media or word of mouth.

have i given up on shanny? no but all the sudden his armor doesnt seem to gleam so brightly!

[thebluefood]

Great article, Murf.

I'm not really to toss him over board (I like to give a coach 2-3 years to prove himself); but the honeymoon is officially over. This town loves it's Redskins and if you do something to mess things up, you're gonna have a whole city riding your ass; including the newspapers and radio stations.

[megared]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he review all the film of the practices and coaching AFTER practice is over? Who said he is sitting up there just watching videotape during practice itself?

This is getting ridiculous, honestly.

You're wrong.

Cooley's most interesting nugget was that Mike Shanahan is actually not in the meeting room when much of the offensive game plan is installed, instead preferring to watch the meeting on a video feed in his office.

"Mike doesn't meet with the offense," Cooley said. "He'll come in sometimes, [but] he watches a lot of it in his office....Both Gibbs and Zorn ran most of the offensive meetings....I think [Mike Shanahan's] very hands-on in the staff meetings as far as what we're doing offensively. I know a ton of the run game revolves around a lot of his ideas. He's hands-on; he just lets Kyle install it, and our coaches install it."

"There's video cameras and stuff in all of our meetings, and he sits in his office and he can watch every meeting room," Cooley said. "He installed the video cameras this year. It's a new thing. And I kind of forgot about it, and we were watching some practice run tape, and he came in in the middle of nowhere and started talking about the play, and I think everyone had forgot about it, because it seemed insane. It seemed like he had insane psychic ability. He's watching everything. That dude knows everything that goes on. I mean, I got some packages [Thursday] in the mail, and I'm sure he'll come up today and say oh, you got some Muscle Milk, I see."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/mike_shanahan_kyle_shanahan_an.html

[themurf]

Yet on your twitter yesterday you responded with something along the lines of HAHAHAHAHAHA in response of Shanny not throwing guys like Galloway & Lichtensteiger under the bus. Instead he protected them with minimum praise because he's not going to trash them in public.

Come on now, Rick. Those are two very different situations. I don't want/need Shanahan to tell me how great everyone on the roster is. Joe Gibbs cornered the market on "super smart" players who "fought their guts out." No matter how you/Shanahan/whoever try to spin it, Joey Galloway and Kory Lichtensteiger have been garbage this season. Neither should be employed, let alone a starter on an NFL team.

As far as the McNabb situation - again, I have no issue with the benching itself. I have a problem with Shanahan questioning McNabb's intelligence, conditioning, etc. in his last two press conferences. McNabb's resume and body of work say enough to convince any rational human being that he gives his team a better chance to win than Grossman. So if you take McNabb out (for whatever reason), don't tell me it's because Grossman gave the Redskins their only chance to win in Detroit. No one believes that. Not even Mama Grossman. At least have enough respect for McNabb (and to a lesser extent, Redskins fans) to lie and say you made the move because McNabb was injured or you worried that the line was going to get him killed. That would have been a lot more bearable than crushing the guy you gave up multiple draft picks for just eight games ago.

Murf, how do you feel about Kyle?

I know people thought he was the second coming for some reason, but he appears to be in way over his head. The body language from players on the sidelines gives off the feeling that they think he is a joke.

Count me as one of those people who thought he was the second coming. I admit, I saw the results in Houston and started reaming of having a competent offense. I have no clue what happens from here, but it's impossible to say that the offensive coordinator for this mess should be happy with how the first eight games have played out.

[Woofer]

Point taken.

I didn't miss that part, but attitude can only take you so far. Eventually, the lack of talent does show up. Only if you are fortunate to get hot at the right time (Giants and Cardinals comes to mind) can you overcome some of that.)

Ru-Dee! Ru-Dee!

[artmonkforHOF]

It's all Shanny's ego. The guy is a nut job. How can he say he pulled DMac because of conditioning? I thought all players who dared to step on Shanny's holy practice field, had to be in shape. That would be one thing, but he said it after saying he did not think DMc knew the 2 minute drill well enough. So he backs off calling McNabb stupid by calling him fat and out of shape, while contradicting his own minimum requirements to even get on the practice field. If he was that bad, why did he even practice? And if Shanny really thought about using Rex earlier, how come he did not have him warming up his arm earlier?

This was Shanny's ego, not be able to take that the players where making him and his system look bad, and he had a knee jerk reaction. Kick this crazy **** to the curb, I'll take my chances with a new young HC & GM.

[Riggo#44]

Is the talent there in Tampa Bay? St. Louis?

No, it's not. And the only way St. Louis makes the playoffs is if they win the worst division in the history of sports. We don't have that luxury. Tampa is beating bad teams (the best team they've beat is St. Louis who is about as hit-and-miss as we are!) I will bet they are heading for a Zornian collapse. Their 2nd half schedule includes 2 games with Atlanta, one more at NO (who they got crushed by already). They won't make the playoffs.

[themurf]

Yes, thank you. It's getting ridiculous. I'm not the type to do it, but I just hope someone is saving all of these threads and posts so those who jumped on the bashing bandwagon feel sheepish when this team looks good down the stretch. I'm sure they'll be hoping it doesn't now so as not to look as foolish and as petty as they are.

Sorry, murf, I love your material, but you went overboard on the negativity as you sometimes do. I understand, the media right now is eating this up and there are plenty of drama queens looking to be fed drama, but come on. You claim Shanahan threw Mcnabb under the bus, yet want him to say something else... what exactly could he say that wouldn't throw Mcnabb under the bus? Then you want him to throw the Oline under the bus? Are you serious? So it's ok to blame the Oline, just don't make Mcnabb look bad in anyway... riiiiiight.

The only way else he could've put it so that it didn't make Mcnabb nor the Oline look so bad was that there were health concerns, and yesterday he did say that when he elaborated on the whole situation. He also said the reason he didn't go into that the first time around when asked is because "no offense joe, but yesterday, you know, I didn't really want to go into a lot of detail about that, you go into game situations that... you're a little disappointed, you don't have to go into a lot of detail, which I think you can understand", but yeah, I get it he's a big fat liar wah wah wah! He basically admitted he didn't want to elaborate yesterday, he wasn't happy with all that happened and wasn't going to sit there and talk about everything disappointed like that.

You know what, I'm still on my honeymoon with Shanny and Allen. You don't speak for all of us, obviously, just the drama queens of which there are plenty on ES, admittedly. I don't think the vocal majority on the internet is a good indication of what Redskin Nation feels, though the media right now is definitely doing their best to endlessly question and instigate while taking every quote out of context like it's good at doing (not that you did that here, murf, but still you definitely are adding fuel to the fire, unfortunately).

I'm sure you're going to stick to your guns here, whatever, but like bobzmuda said in the comments section under your article "So you’re upset that Shannahan isn’t telling the truth that you already know? C’mon Murph."

No worries, man. You've always been a huge supporter of my work. You're allowed to disagree with me without having to apologize. hehehe.

I guess, at the end of the day, I find Shanahan's explanation insulting. That's my biggest gripe with this. Objectively looking at McNabb and Grossman, it's clear which one is a better quarterback. For the record, McNabb has led his team to 23 game-winning drives and 15 fourth-quarter comebacks over his career.

But like I said, Shanahan made a move during the heat of the game and I can live with that. I don't agree with it, but I can't fault him for doing what he thought was best for the team with two minutes left in the ballgame. Now, even though I can look past that, I'm not cool with Shanahan crushing McNabb. Why? Because there is absolutely no benefit whatsoever to questioning McNabb's intelligence, conditioning, etc. None. All it does is bring more heat on both Shanahan and McNabb and instead of folks writing about how the Redskins let a winnable game get away against the Lions, now we're left with two weeks of unnecessary drama. As a Redskins fan, it's just a situation I can do without.

Had Shanahan simply come out and said, "McNabb was hurt and I wanted to protect him for the second half of the season," no one would have called it a benching. No one would have questioned the move. Everyone would still be in the lovey dovey phase with Shanahan and McNabb. But for whatever reason, Shanahan opted to openly refer to it as a benching and then brought up a handful of reasons why, in his mind, it was the right move. So that's why we're here.

[konga2145]

Come on now, Rick. Those are two very different situations. I don't want/need Shanahan to tell me how great everyone on the roster is. Joe Gibbs cornered the market on "super smart" players who "fought their guts out." No matter how you/Shanahan/whoever try to spin it, Joey Galloway and Kory Lichtensteiger have been garbage this season. Neither should be employed, let alone a starter on an NFL team.

As far as the McNabb situation - again, I have no issue with the benching itself. I have a problem with Shanahan questioning McNabb's intelligence, conditioning, etc. in his last two press conferences. McNabb's resume and body of work say enough to convince any rational human being that he gives his team a better chance to win than Grossman. So if you take McNabb out (for whatever reason), don't tell me it's because Grossman gave the Redskins their only chance to win in Detroit. No one believes that. Not even Mama Grossman. At least have enough respect for McNabb (and to a lesser extent, Redskins fans) to lie and say you made the move because McNabb was injured or you worried that the line was going to get him killed. That would have been a lot more bearable than crushing the guy you gave up multiple draft picks for just eight games ago.

Count me as one of those people who thought he was the second coming. I admit, I saw the results in Houston and started reaming of having a competent offense. I have no clue what happens from here, but it's impossible to say that the offensive coordinator for this mess should be happy with how the first eight games have played out.

So glad that you and other extreme fans know so much about player personal, why don't you apply at the park for jog, man you guys kill me

[themurf]

So glad that you and other extreme fans know so much about player personal, why don't you apply at the park for jog, man you guys kill me

In the last five games, Joey Galloway has a total of six catches for 53 yards and zero touchdowns. During the same five-game span, DeAngelo Hall has six interceptions, which he has returned for 92 yards and a touchdown. Galloway has the benefit of quarterbacks throwing the ball to him. Hall does not. And yet, the cornerback has better numbers. I don't think it takes someone in the player "personal" (or even the player personnel industry) to say that's embarrassing. That being said, I might take you up on that and apply for the "jog" anyway.

[Dick Edds]

Oh, I don't blame fans for it. Personally, I've been critical of some of the decisions he's made before this time, but others have been giving him a free pass.

The problem is that this points out why trading for McNabb was a bad idea in the first place. By the time this roster gets into shape, McNabb was likely to be too old to have much of an effect on it. So, why give up two picks that you can use to help increase the talent level of the team when you can use an off-the-shelf QB as a caretaker while the parts get into place? The problem with trading for McNabb is that it suddenly increased expectations for this team. For better or worse, trading for him sent the message of wins now. In my mind, that sets up the fans for disappointment. Combine that with the trade for Brown, which he's really not looking much better than Heyer, and you wonder how far this sets the team back. We know how much Gibbs' trades in 2006 set us back, which left us with an aging roster.

I don't care as much for winning now if we can build a roster we can sustain. Trading away three picks doesn't do that.

I disagree ... imagine had we have kept JC or gone with Rex? Do you think the other players on this team would have "rallied" ... what talent we did have would have been in the same mindset/culture of losing and unmotivated that has been stuck on this team and this franchise for the last 20 years. Bringing in McNabb was not about letting the fans know whether we are in a "win now" mode or a "rebuilding" mode ... more so than it was a message to the rest of the TEAM that "we are going to win and we are not going to wait to do it."

IMO McNabb being brought in was more about having a steady leader for this veteran team and it's players ... and less about selling tickets and "letting the fans know" anything. Just my perspective. i agree the premise of the article is spot on, Shanny has mentioned before in interviews that he does not discuss personal conversations or coaching decisions with the media, because that wold open "Pandora's box" ... those exact words came out of his mouth when interviewed by Kelli Johnson. I'm sure Shanny has a good reason for what he did. Whether that was right or wrong remains to be seen. Should it motivate DMac to elevate his play and we start winning games, this will all be water under the bridge.

But what i think is most important, s that bringing McNab in here was not about the fans, it was about the team and having a leader as an example to go by. Which to Murf's point, could all be for not with his comments regarding the fact.

I also agree Shanny should have kept the personal comments and time line of player/coach conversations out of the media, he slipped up on that as well. he created this mess in the blink of an eye, but not with his decisions ... but more so with his response to all the questions. Just my $.02. HAIL.

[The Tris]

Had Shanahan simply come out and said, "McNabb was hurt and I wanted to protect him for the second half of the season," no one would have called it a benching. No one would have questioned the move. Everyone would still be in the lovey dovey phase with Shanahan and McNabb. But for whatever reason, Shanahan opted to openly refer to it as a benching and then brought up a handful of reasons why, in his mind, it was the right move. So that's why we're here.

It's pretty amazing with such an easy out, Shanahan is seemingly fanning the benching flames, inviting on this PR firestorm.

Shanahan is going all in, with what I would assume is the hope this plays out like Steve Young's benching in 1994 when he was OC, and McNabb's benching two years ago. Huge risk, huge reward.

If it works out, he's a genius. If it does not, we just wasted two draft picks.

[thewagen]

It was OVER the day he signed on as HC!!:mad::mad:

[Riggo#44]

It's pretty amazing with such an easy out, Shanahan is seemingly fanning the benching flames, inviting on this PR firestorm.

Shanahan is going all in, with what I would assume is the hope this plays out like Steve Young's benching in 1994 when he was OC, and McNabb's benching two years ago. Huge risk, huge reward.

I honestly just don't think it's that big of a deal and it is really getting overblown. Yes the benching and explanation were dumb, but name a coach who hasn't had a dumb move or a dumb explanation...

[TSO]

You're wrong.

Cooley's most interesting nugget was that Mike Shanahan is actually not in the meeting room when much of the offensive game plan is installed, instead preferring to watch the meeting on a video feed in his office.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/mike_shanahan_kyle_shanahan_an.html

Actually, you jumped the gun there and proved me right, lol.

You specifically said he "watches the practices", which is definitely NOT the same as offensive meetings. There are practices, and then there are meetings. If you don't want to acknowledge that difference when responding to me, especially considering that that's what I corrected you on, then there's no point in this other than to bicker. I'm not into bickering.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Lie to us?? There is no obligation on his part to pull back the curtain on every decision he makes. We're not part of this team and are owed nothing. Maybe the head coach thinks that saying "I didn't trust Donovan and wanted to roll the dice to win the game" isn't all that PC and constructive for his starting QB.

I guess I don't understand why we suddenly feel entitled to know everything about the inner-workings of this organization. What did Gibbs reveal during interviews or press conferences back in the 1980s? Not much!

I mesh with a lot of what you write TD_w, but the " ..... We're not part of this team and are owed nothing" line had me opened mouthed from you.

Without us, there is NO team. Heck, Without us, there is NO game. Try sell it to the networks without the ambiance of the crowd to make the spectacle. We're as bigger part of this team as any player, coach or owner will ever be; and we'll be here LONG after the majority of them are gone.

No, we shouldn't expect to know every little thing from inside the park. What happen's on a day to day basis in the main should be kept in house; and I actually like the fact he's out of the Gibbs mould in giving the morons in the media next to nothing. But when your HC, who in effect is just a custodian currently of this franchise who wouldn't be paid the riches he is if it wasn't for the fan base, makes a dumbass decision that every man and his dog can see; and then compounds it by an even bigger dumbass, spurious cover-up he insults the intelligence of the fan base he in effect works for. (I know, Snyder signs the checks. But did I mention without us paying the bucks into the coffers there'd be no ..... ).

So I respectfully disagree man. We are owed a heck of a lot from those whom this is just a job; to those whom this is the most important thing in their lives outside of one's own faith and family in many cases.

Hail.

[goflyhelo]

"With all due respect, you got us into this mess. Now, be a man, admit your mistake and do what’s necessary to get us all out of it."

This.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I mesh with a lot of what you write TD_w, but the " ..... We're not part of this team and are owed nothing" line had me opened mouthed from you.

Without us, there is NO team. Heck, Without us, there is NO game. Try sell it to the networks without the ambiance of the crowd to make the spectacle. We're as bigger part of this team as any player, coach or owner will ever be; and we'll be here LONG after the majority of them are gone.

No, we shouldn't expect to know every little thing from inside the park. What happen's on a day to day basis in the main should be kept in house; and I actually like the fact he's out of the Gibbs mould in giving the morons in the media next to nothing. But when your HC, who in effect is just a custodian currently of this franchise who wouldn't be paid the riches he is if it wasn't for the fan base, makes a dumbass decision that every man and his dog can see; and then compounds it by an even bigger dumbass, spurious cover-up he insults the intelligence of the fan base he in effect works for. (I know, Snyder signs the checks. But did I mention without us paying the bucks into the coffers there'd be no ..... ).

So I respectfully disagree man. We are owed a heck of a lot from those whom this is just a job; to those whom this is the most important thing in their lives outside of one's own faith and family in many cases.

Hail.

Thanks for the kind words, GHH!

We are owed a quality product and 100% effort, but we are not owed information that the coach doesn't deem for public consumption. I should have clarified that my statement was within the context of information. We've gotten used to getting more information here in DC than I suspect the more successful organizations release. Under someone like Shanahan, that's going to die down some.