Concerns about Orakpo

[gurn]

When I signed onto ES a few weeks ago I hoped to find a forum of intelligent Redskins fans who pay attention. No such luck. This topic is a joke. Perhaps the poster should consider being an Eagle, Giant or Cowboy fan. Orakpo has 7 sacks, 1.5 off the league lead, and is on pace for 16 sacks this year in addition to the holding calls (one of which preserved a victory, if you were paying attention). With Haynesworth coming on in his last two performances at Philadelphia and Chicago, the numbers will go up. Please work a little harder to find something to whine about.

[theboomking]

I still contend that Orakpo's biggest area for improvement is in his instincts, particularly against the run. Some of the big plays I've seen him give up against the run this year were mainly because he read his run/pass keys wrong. I don't think it will take long for him to settle down and limit his giving up big runs by breaking containment. But it'll be a while after that before Orakpo is instinctive and active enough to actually an elite run defender. Can you think of a time Orakpo sniffed out a misdirection and made a big tackle or stop at or behind the line of scrimmage? Can you remember seeing him fly around the field making tackles outside of the phone booth? I can't. Carter and Alexander both play with superior instincts and are better run defenders as a result. Orakpo's done a good job adjusting to his new position, but he'll have a long ways to go before he's more than just a pass-rusher. This would have been a similar situation for him had he stayed at DE.

I think he sniffed out exactly the type of play you are discussing, a misdirection play off the left side, and tackled Reggie Bush for a loss last year against the Saints. Overall, I agree with you. He doesn't seem to have the instincts against the run that you'd like. I strongly disagree that Carter is better than Rak against the run at OLB. That is true on the line in a 3 point stance, but Carter was horrible in space at OLB, both against the run and the pass.

From a technical standpoint, Orakpo looks like he's still getting a feel on how to anchor and slip off blocks. Right now he's more comfortable moving forward or chasing plays, but he's a much better stack and shed type than I originally credited him with. Once he figures out how to shed blocks consistently, he'll be fine when he plays contain. But will he ever be the sort of player against the run James Harrison is? I doubt it. Do we need him to be to be a great defense? I don't think so.

I don't know why he couldn't be as good as Harrison, Porter, Woodley, or Suggs. It's not like Harrison was any good as a second year player. Orakpo is just as athletic/explosive as any of those players, and is stronger than all of them. I expect Orakpo to improve over the course of this season, as he already has, and given his work ethic and proffessionalism, I'd expect that Orakpo will become an impact player against the run at some point.

BTW I was curious about Maybin and googled him. He has 14 tackles and no sacks in his career to date.

http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronmaybin/careerstats?id=MAY287870

Per the PFT article below, he was deactivated for the Bills' most recent game.

The Bills expected big things from Aaron Maybin after selecting him with the 11th pick in the 2009 draft. But he had a disappointing rookie season, and he hasn't developed at all as the Bills' defense has slumped this year, and on Sunday he was inactive for the first time.

Maybin says getting benched on Sunday was rough.

"That's probably, definitely the most frustrating thing I've experienced since I've been here," Maybin said. "All I can do is go out and play every day. I can only affect what I do when I'm on the field. As far as my opportunities to get on the field, that's up to the coaching staff. But all I can control is what I do on the practice field every day."

Maybin didn't criticize the coaching staff and didn't say he deserves more playing time.

"I'm not a coach. Fortunately that's not the decision that the people are looking at me to make," Maybin said. "It's not my job to decide who's on the field and who's doing what. My job is to make sure that when my name gets called I'm ready to produce for this team."

There's no word yet on whether Maybin's name will be called Sunday, when the Bills are in Kansas City.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/27/aaron-maybin-calls-benching-most-frustrating-thing-ive-experienced/#_login

[LeftCoast Skinz FAN]

Ok, some of you are crazy. Rak already has 7 sacks this year. He had 10 all of last year, after 16 games. After just 7 games he has 7 sacks. I would say he is improving. Oh and he is playing a position he never played. He was a DE in college and now he is a OLB in a 3-4 after playing OLB in 4-3 his rookie year. So to say he isn't impressive is ridiculous. So, since college he has change his position twice, has been asked to cover TEs and is still getting to the QB and causing holding penalties. I'm highly impressed with him and look forward to him getting better and better every year.

Some of you are just hatters!!!!

[kiingspadee]

Ok, some of you are crazy. Rak already has 7 sacks this year. He had 10 all of last year, after 16 games. After just 7 games he has 7 sacks. I would say he is improving. Oh and he is playing a position he never played. He was a DE in college and now he is a OLB in a 3-4 after playing OLB in 4-3 his rookie year. So to say he isn't impressive is ridiculous. So, since college he has change his position twice, has been asked to cover TEs and is still getting to the QB and causing holding penalties. I'm highly impressed with him and look forward to him getting better and better every year.

Some of you are just hatters!!!!

what are hatters?

NVM found em

[Going Commando]

I think he sniffed out exactly the type of play you are discussing, a misdirection play off the left side, and tackled Reggie Bush for a loss last year against the Saints. Overall, I agree with you. He doesn't seem to have the instincts against the run that you'd like. I strongly disagree that Carter is better than Rak against the run at OLB. That is true on the line in a 3 point stance, but Carter was horrible in space at OLB, both against the run and the pass.

I'm pretty sure Carter has made a few big plays against the run this season, but I don't remember if it was in his stance or standing up. He's a decent open field tackler and is very good at locating the ball. I agree about his hips though. Carter really struggles to flip then and redirect and is often a step slow in getting to the play when he has to fill. He's clearly uncomfortable playing off of the LoS. I think it's because Carter is just a leggy athlete who's uncomfortable shuffling his feet. He's a very high cut guy who's never had to work much with his feet before.

I don't know why he couldn't be as good as Harrison, Porter, Woodley, or Suggs. It's not like Harrison was any good as a second year player. Orakpo is just as athletic/explosive as any of those players, and is stronger than all of them. I expect Orakpo to improve over the course of this season, as he already has, and given his work ethic and proffessionalism, I'd expect that Orakpo will become an impact player against the run at some point.

I think Orakpo can be as good as any of those players as a pass rusher. But I don't think he'll ever be the run defender that Harrison is at this moment now. Harrison is an elite run defender. Orakpo might be bigger, faster, and stronger, but he's nowhere near as violent, aggressive, or instinctive as Harrison is. I think you're more likely to see the kind of run crushing presence that Harrison brings to the Steelers from LaRon or London. Orakpo's a smart guy and a great player, but he's not a violent striker nor is he the kind of guy who looks to get involved and assert himself in every single play like Harrison does. LaRon is. I don't think we need Orakpo to be the same kind of player for us that Harrison is for the Steelers. Sooner, rather than later, Orakpo will be a better pass rusher than Harrison. That's enough for me.

BTW I was curious about Maybin and googled him. He has 14 tackles and no sacks in his career to date.

http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronmaybin/careerstats?id=MAY287870

Per the PFT article below, he was deactivated for the Bills' most recent game.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/27/aaron-maybin-calls-benching-most-frustrating-thing-ive-experienced/#_login

Maybin hasn't been impressive at all. He was a stupid pick at the time and nothing has changed. I didn't like Maybin or Everette Brown at all for us before the draft. The Bills overvalued Maybin's first step in their consideration and ignored the fact that they were drafting a 225 pound college defensive end that ran a 4.88. I remember watching him and thinking, "There's not a chance in hell this guy can be a 3 down defensive end in the NFL." I thought moving to OLB in a 3-4 would be his only hope for success and it looks like he washed out there too. I nominate Jason Pierre-Paul as this year's Aaron Maybin (although he's at least been a force on special teams).

I remember watching that draft vividly. I wanted Sanchez pretty badly but I knew it wasn't going to happen. My interest perked up when Tyson Jackson went third. Curry then went to the Seahawks as expected (BTW, WTH happened to him?). But then Oakland traded down and I started to think hmmm. Oakland took Heyward-Bey and GB took Raji and I was stunned Orakpo was still on the board. Then the 49ers took Crabtree and when the Bills took Maybin, I literally jumped for joy because I knew we'd either get Orakpo or Oher. It was a fateful day.

If you held the thing over again, I bet the first 5 picks would go:

1. Stafford

2. Orakpo

3. Matthews III

4. Cushing

5. Sanchez

[Shabby]

Are you joking. Rak has been a monster this season. He had 11 sacks all last season and already has 7 this year. If it werent for the 8 or 9 holding calls against him, he could be leading the league in sacks. I bet he leads the league in being held tho lol

[MR2Drift]

Aaron Maybin - 0 career sacks

Robert Ayers - 1.5 career sacks

Tyson Jackson- 0 career sacks

Larry English- 2.5 career sacks

Brian Orakpo- 18 career sacks

I'm just glad we dodged some bullets and did not end up with those guys. We have a few young talented guys that a team can be built around and Orakpo is one of them.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I remember salivating watching orakpo videos and listening to doc walker get all hot and bothered about him (okay that sentence makes me uncomfortable.) I didn't think there was a chance in hell he fell to us.

[I Miss Taylor_21]

Is this real? Did someone really create this??

[XxSpearheadxX]

is this real? Did someone really create this??

welcome to es friend

[theboomking]

I think Orakpo can be as good as any of those players as a pass rusher. But I don't think he'll ever be the run defender that Harrison is at this moment now. Harrison is an elite run defender. Orakpo might be bigger, faster, and stronger, but he's nowhere near as violent, aggressive, or instinctive as Harrison is. I think you're more likely to see the kind of run crushing presence that Harrison brings to the Steelers from LaRon or London. Orakpo's a smart guy and a great player, but he's not a violent striker nor is he the kind of guy who looks to get involved and assert himself in every single play like Harrison does. LaRon is. I don't think we need Orakpo to be the same kind of player for us that Harrison is for the Steelers. Sooner, rather than later, Orakpo will be a better pass rusher than Harrison. That's enough for me.

You're probably right. Orakpo isn't really a striker. I do think he could be every bit of the player Suggs is though, and Suggs is a beast against the run. Honestly, Suggs gets more credit than he deserves as a pass rusher. Orakpo is already better. Here are Suggs' career sack stats:

2003:12.0

2004:10.5

2005: 8.0

2006: 9.5

2007: 5.0

2008: 8.0

2009:4.5

2010:3.5

His best years as a pass rusher look to be his first two, and his sack stats have had an overall downward trend.

Maybin hasn't been impressive at all. He was a stupid pick at the time and nothing has changed. I didn't like Maybin or Everette Brown at all for us before the draft. The Bills overvalued Maybin's first step in their consideration and ignored the fact that they were drafting a 225 pound college defensive end that ran a 4.88. I remember watching him and thinking, "There's not a chance in hell this guy can be a 3 down defensive end in the NFL." I thought moving to OLB in a 3-4 would be his only hope for success and it looks like he washed out there too. I nominate Jason Pierre-Paul as this year's Aaron Maybin (although he's at least been a force on special teams).

I remember watching that draft vividly. I wanted Sanchez pretty badly but I knew it wasn't going to happen. My interest perked up when Tyson Jackson went third. Curry then went to the Seahawks as expected (BTW, WTH happened to him?). But then Oakland traded down and I started to think hmmm. Oakland took Heyward-Bey and GB took Raji and I was stunned Orakpo was still on the board. Then the 49ers took Crabtree and when the Bills took Maybin, I literally jumped for joy because I knew we'd either get Orakpo or Oher. It was a fateful day.

If you held the thing over again, I bet the first 5 picks would go:

1. Stafford

2. Orakpo

3. Matthews III

4. Cushing

5. Sanchez

I also find it amazing that Denver took Moreno over Orakpo. Imagine them with Orakpo and Dumervil coming off the edge. Would they really have lost that much playing a guy like Torrain over Moreno? I'd only take a running back over a potentially elite pass rusher if the RB was truly elite, a Tomlinson or Peterson quality prospect.

[Rodskins]

Rak is in his second season....and I think he is doing a tremendous job. He gets held all the time. For someone to say this man is not making impact plays is rediculous. If we can get a legit DL, he will be even better. I could be wrong, but Albert seems to be on the verge of lighting things up......that will be huge for this defense. Sometimes I am amazed by some of the comments here. Do you expect Rak to be the league's best in season two? He hasn't impressed you at all??? Come on!

[bigredone]

Rac is a vital part of our D and impacts every game.....enough said

[paloosa]

You talk about Orakpo not impressing you but he creates a lot holding calls, pressure on the QB so they have to step up, and he does the same thing that DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys does. That is wreak havoc. He isn't going to win every battle but he will win a lot of them because of his speed.

[Skinsfan4life83]

This thread is pure ignorance. The guy makes play's all the time and seems to be improving each game. The strip/fumble of manning, 2 sacks on Cutler, the holding call during the cowgurl game, and others Im sure i cant remember at the moment. Whoever thinks this guy is overhyped is just looking for a reason to *****. The sheer stupidity on this board amazes me at times.

[MonkFan8]

Been a few weeks, anyone else concerned yet?

I admit, this thread was certainly premature, but I really haven't liked what I've seen from Rak the past few weeks. He's still a great young player, but he is absolutely a one-trick pony right now.

Tonight against the Eagles Vick absolutely abused the fact that all Orakpo has is a speed rush, which he used to routinely run himself completely out of plays, freeing up tons of room for Vick.

Not that he's our #1 worry, but he did not perform well tonight at all.

[Warhead36]

Dude, we lost by ****ing 30 points. Of course Orakpo played poorly. The entire team played like crap. But Orakpo is still one of the last guys anyone should worry about. He's one of the few talented young players we have to build around.

[Santana_Fan]

Been a few weeks, anyone else concerned yet?

I admit, this thread was certainly premature, but I really haven't liked what I've seen from Rak the past few weeks. He's still a great young player, but he is absolutely a one-trick pony right now.

Tonight against the Eagles Vick absolutely abused the fact that all Orakpo has is a speed rush, which he used to routinely run himself completely out of plays, freeing up tons of room for Vick.

Not that he's our #1 worry, but he did not perform well tonight at all.

Wasn't he playing with an injured back?

[Dan T.]

Anybody else see him held right off the bat on Vick's 88 yard TD pass? No call there. Not that it would have made much diff.

[NoCalMike]

Vick is a great player, but after all the holding(uncalled) we saw go on when he was a member of the Falcons, that set up a lot of his big plays, it makes me question if the Eagles routinely get away with it now, because the officials are trying to keep an eye on Vick and the defenders pursuing him.

I am most talking about when Vick can't find a WR, and starts running sideline to sideline, and then reversing course. It's hard to believe there is not a bunch of holding go on.

[NoCalMike]

As far as concerns about Orakpo.

Lets compare Orakpo to a similar player, DeMarcus Ware. Ware has Theo Ratliff in the middle of the D-line occupying bodies and on occasion a double team that lets Ware get single covered a bunch. In years past, he had Ratliff & Chris Canty on that D-line(who is now on the Giants)

Who does Orakpo have? 38 year old Phillip Daniels....Cornelius Griffin who is way over the hill....and Haynesworth who as we saw tonight, prefers to take naps on the field and gets butt-hurt and takes plays off when he is handled on a previous play....

Until Orakpo has better support on that D-line, whenever he gets a sack or a hit on the QB, he is pretty much doing it on his own.

[terrifNick21]

^^^ Griffin was cut in the offseason.

[paloosa]

How can you make impact plays when they are running a poor Jim Haslett Defensive scheme? Orakpo and many other players are not being put into positions to suceed. Until we get DC that can put them into position to suceed they will always be at the bottom of the NFC East.

[Spartacus87]

Of all the concerns I have about the Redskins in their current state, Orakpo is at the very bottom of the list.

If we stick with this 3-4 idea, let's get him a real NT and DEs to put in front of him.

Once he has a legit supporting cast, than we can talk about what he's living up to or failing to live up to.

He does need to expand his arsenal of moves, but a lot of times tonight it looked like he was running himself out of plays because he was trying too hard to try and make a play on his own, and just guessing at what direction Vick would roll out towards.

[Warhead36]

Vick had one of those all-time great games.

I don't think Reggie White in his prime would have helped us much today.