The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Good to see my boy (fnas) Jan Vesely's talents and potential getting some recognition.

[Rocky21]

I think Otto Porter is actually the best true SF prospect since Durant.  

Good thing we're playing him at the #2 and #4 spots.  Only Les Boulez. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Rocky21

[No Excuses]

I've never seen such overreaction to summer league games. They mean absolutely nothing. Zero. It's a pick up game that is televised on TV.

[lovetoaster]

I've never seen such overreaction to summer league games. They mean absolutely nothing. Zero. It's a pick up game that is televised on TV.

 

Exactly what I told one of my friends last night. With the lack of structure, it's like watching the all-star game. Except its a no-star game. But I still watch.

[RonArtest15]

Otto is the future, but I like the re-signing of Martell more and more by the day.  He'd be completely overwhelmed (IMO) as a starter at the 3 from day 1.  I think he'll eventually settle into that role before the season is over, but he's gotta get his feet wet first.

 

I didn't watch the game last night, but I'm happy that Jan is playing well.  I just hope that he can carry this confidence over to training camp, preseason, and the regular season.  If anything, Chris Singleton will be the odd man out.  I seriously wonder if he'll even be on the roster by the time November rolls around? 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Just a FYI, this is the first year LV Summer League is doing a tournament.  It starts tonight.  Here's a link to the bracket: 

 

http://www.nba.com/news/2013-summer-league-las-vegas-bracket/index.html

 

What I like about this summer league, is that they actually have a D-League team here.  Gives players in the D-League a better opportunity to show NBA Teams how they compare to the young talent entering the league.

[Going Commando]

Summer League! This is the prime time to be a Bullets fan! Have not had the first 20 games of the season to destroy any optimism we had.

Nor has Philly destroyed us in preseason like they've done lately.

Btw we deserve free hats or something for being true fans. How many people are watching wizards summer league? haha.

 

I'm going to put the over/under at 25.  And I'll probably take the under.

[Going Commando]

I'm impressed with Rice.  Looks like he's taken his opportunity and is running with it.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Pretty harsh comments from Wittman on Ves right there.  That supposed to build his confidence?

 

I like Wittman, but Im tired of him. If we dont at least make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year, he needs to go. And even then, if we got swept, I'd want him to go.  I know we had no shot at Doc Rivers, but I wish we wouldve at least offered a ton of money to him.  Squad starting to shape up, we need a top tier coach in here. Bring a GM while we're at it....

Edited July 17, 2013 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[Destino]

I'm impressed with Rice.  Looks like he's taken his opportunity and is running with it.

 

I'll be impressed if he shows that he can guard NBA 2 guards during the season.  That's really the question I want answered this season... well that and can he handle DC's nightlife without getting into trouble.  If he can the wizards are loaded with versatile and capable wings on the bench, which is a great thing with this teams injury history.  Rice has the tools to be a real good player for the Wizards.  

[RonArtest15]

I've got no issue w/ Wittman's comments in regards to Ves.  Grown men don't need to be coddled and if anything, this is a reflection of Ernie's botched pick.  Anyways, I hope whatever momentum he's gained in Vegas can carry over.  He's got to know that he's on VERY thin ice.  So far, the returns have been encouraging. 

[Clutch03]

I've got no issue w/ Wittman's comments in regards to Ves.  Grown men don't need to be coddled and if anything, this is a reflection of Ernie's botched pick.  Anyways, I hope whatever momentum he's gained in Vegas can carry over.  He's got to know that he's on VERY thin ice.  So far, the returns have been encouraging. 

 

I really agree with this statement.  The NBA is for grown men so if you are not one stay in school or stay overseas until you mature.  You can't cry foul when a coach or team treats you like a man and it hurts your feelings.  Man up this is a big boys league and you are making top dollar.  How many pats on the back do you need?  

Edited July 18, 2013 by Clutch03

[Going Commando]

Pretty harsh comments from Wittman on Ves right there.  That supposed to build his confidence?

 

I like Wittman, but Im tired of him. If we dont at least make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year, he needs to go. And even then, if we got swept, I'd want him to go.  I know we had no shot at Doc Rivers, but I wish we wouldve at least offered a ton of money to him.  Squad starting to shape up, we need a top tier coach in here. Bring a GM while we're at it....

 

Well it could have just been poor tact on his part.  Maybe he's not the best communicator.  But essentially saying Ves wasn't worth a damn last season because he had no confidence is not the recipe to helping him gain confidence.

 

Vesely is definitely not his guy, I don't think he's willing to give him the same kind of rope as the players he likes.  I get the feeling Ves was Ernie and Flip's guy and when Flip got fired, the plan for what to do with Ves left with him.  We've been experimenting with him non stop since.  

 

My guess is Ves has argued with Wittman about what Wittman is trying to get him to change and do, specifically the weight gain and the move to Center.  And it's pissed Wittman off and he sees Ves as somewhat unwilling to buy in.  That's my speculation though.  It's the only thing I can come up with for why Wittman seems to personally dislike Vesely.

 

Also, I wonder if Wittman having been such a great and natural shooter unconsciously makes him easily frustrated with players like Singleton and Vesely who can't shoot.

 

But at the end of the day, his comments weren't that big a deal either way.  The only thing that's going to allow Ves to salvage his career and develop into an NBA player is if he wins a spot in the rotation and starts getting minutes.

 

Not wanting to make excuses for Wittman though.  I don't think he's a great coach either.  The good with him is that he motivates a vet laden team of good eggs very well.  We play hard and we seem to be good at the fundamentals now--defense and passing.  But it's worth pointing out that we've got a very coachable team now.  Flip wishes he had this group of guys instead of the knuckleheads from before.

 

His weaknesses to me are handling the rotations, clearly defining roles for everyone, and I don't think he's great the with Xs and Os, I don't think he's great at developing young talent.

 

I agree with you that bringing in a top tier coach would be huge.  But that wasn't going to happen before this year.  Might not happen next year either if we don't start winning.  We're just not going to be able to shed the stink of being the Wizards until the team actually proves themselves on the court a little bit.  

 

Plus another "problem" with making a change is the players have bought into Wittman.  John seems to love him, so that means you can't fire him without pissing off our star player.

 

It'd be a shame to waste John's best years with meh coaching though.  We might be headed for a similar situation to what OKC is with Scott Brooks.  Or what LAC had with Vinny Del Negro.

[Going Commando]

I've got no issue w/ Wittman's comments in regards to Ves.  Grown men don't need to be coddled and if anything, this is a reflection of Ernie's botched pick.  Anyways, I hope whatever momentum he's gained in Vegas can carry over.  He's got to know that he's on VERY thin ice.  So far, the returns have been encouraging. 

 

I've got an issue when your methods are counterproductive.  They clearly are with Ves and other young players, many of whom have actually regressed under Wittman.

 

Effective coaching is the same as effective management.  Not everyone needs or should get the same touch.  A huge part of coaching is managing egos and personalities.  It's a people business.  You have to understand how your people tick and figure out which approach gets them to maximize their productivity, or you're not doing a good job coaching.

 

IMO the only thing that's shielded Wittman from criticism on the way he's handled our struggling players is that they're young and unproven and thus have few defenders.  And we're not totally reliant on their success to move forward so we don't really care that much if they fail.  John and Beal are working out and we've got quality veteran players.

 

But we'd be a hell of a lot better in the long run if we actually successfully developed our young big men.  If you get Chris Singleton to simply be able to hit threes and play good defense, that's a valuable player.  He's got the body to defend big SFs and stocky PFs that play in space.  He has the strength to defend players in the post and the lateral speed to stay in front of big perimeter players.  But he really is a mess now, a total self check on offense and he just seems to be getting worse.

 

If you made Jan Vesely into a Serge Ibaka or Andrei Kirilenko like defensive presence we've got a whole new ceiling as a team.  Even with very limited scoring ability.  If all he does on offense is finish PnRs and transition baskets with high efficiency and makes open jumpers and then do some post passing, that's a HUGE asset for the team.  And I believe Ves came in with the natural ability to do those things but we screwed up developing him and now I think he's got mental issues and confidence issues that're a huge barrier to him even getting on the court.

 

And if you get Kevin Seraphin making better decisions with the ball and playing good defense, then we wouldn't have to go out and spend a ton of money for our big bodied center as Okafor and Nene.  But Seraphin seems to be regressing too and his future with the team is uncertain.

 

Eventually we're going to have to develop our own big men though because we're probably going to have too much money tied up in Wall, Beal, and Porter to find solutions in FA.

[RonArtest15]

I mean, Ves was the 6th pick.  Wittman is not the only other person who has brought attention to his lack of confidence (AJ Price echoed those same sentiments).  On top of it all, he's 100% right.  You're not going to be **** in the pros if you're weak mentally.  Other guys have been in Witt's doghouse and gotten out because they've taken the demotion/critcism and done something about it.  This is one of the reasons why the leaders on the team were adamant about him returning as coach.  I'm in no way suggesting that he's the long-term answer, but for now, he has the respect of the team - and his bluntness/honesty is one of the reasons why. 

 

Going back to Ves, no one has ever questioned his skill-set.  He's an extremely fluid 6'11" athlete.  However, he absolutely crumbles when the going gets tough.  He was the 6th pick in the draft for whatever the reason.  Is it his fault?  No.  This is his make-up.  Wittman has to make do with the hand that he's dealt.  EG and the rest of the international scouting department really failed here if Ves ends up being a bust.  Let's be honest.  All signs are currently pointing that way.  Look at us.  We're GRASPING off of a 3rd year vet's strong 4 game play in SUMMER LEAGUE as a hope that he can carry it over to training camp, pre-season, and the regular season.  This is really bad.  I hope he can turn it around and become a success, but I'm really not holding my breath. 

[Destino]

I've got no issue w/ Wittman's comments in regards to Ves. Grown men don't need to be coddled and if anything, this is a reflection of Ernie's botched pick. Anyways, I hope whatever momentum he's gained in Vegas can carry over. He's got to know that he's on VERY thin ice. So far, the returns have been encouraging.

He's the head coach in the NBA, not the NFL. His job is to motivate and manage egos essentially above all other things. He's not an X's and O's coach, the only thing he has going for him is motivation. When he lost Wall last year he couldn't win so instead he poisoned the teams chemistry by trying every dumb ass idea tha came to mind.

The last thing I want to see out of Randy is something that doesn't help players the wizards have invested in succeed. Randy is not a long term member of this club but his jackassery can have long term implications.

[Going Commando]

I don't think the comments were that impactful one way or the other. I don't think they helped, but I don't think they're the thing that killed his confidence. I think it all comes down to him not really having a role, not getting on the court, and thus having no past success to build confidence off of, or the knowledge that he can make mistakes and miss shots in games and still play the next game.

[RonArtest15]

I've got no issue w/ Wittman's comments in regards to Ves. Grown men don't need to be coddled and if anything, this is a reflection of Ernie's botched pick. Anyways, I hope whatever momentum he's gained in Vegas can carry over. He's got to know that he's on VERY thin ice. So far, the returns have been encouraging.

He's the head coach in the NBA, not the NFL. His job is to motivate and manage egos essentially above all other things. He's not an X's and O's coach, the only thing he has going for him is motivation. When he lost Wall last year he couldn't win so instead he poisoned the teams chemistry by trying every dumb ass idea tha came to mind.

The last thing I want to see out of Randy is something that doesn't help players the wizards have invested in succeed. Randy is not a long term member of this club but his jackassery can have long term implications.

 

Poisoned the team's chemistry?  Huh? 

 

On Nov. 26, the Wizards lost a home game to San Antonio, 118-92. It

was the 12th straight loss to start the season, and the postgame locker

room for the Wizards was an emotional scene. On Thursday, a tale told by

Martell Webster revealed for the first time just how emotional it was.

“After we lost that 12th game and he came into the locker room – I

don’t even know if he wants me to share this, but I don’t care – and he

was crying, man, after that game,” Webster said. “And he told us that he

cared about us. And for me, that was a point in the season where I was

just like, I’m in. I’m totally in. I bought into the system. And when I

did that, that’s when my season began to turn to a positive light, and I

started to succeed after that point.

“That meant a lot because it showed that he really cared. He didn’t

care about his job. He didn’t. He just cared about the guys that he was

coaching. And that was amazing. That was touching for me. But that’s

when I realized that I really wanted to buy into this system.”

A.J. Price said he also committed to the system after that night.

 

Link

 

Remember this?  Doesn't exactly seem like he's poisoning chemistry when he's got the respect of pretty much everyone on the team.  Wittman is not perfect.  However, I really feel as though many Wizards fans impressions of him are entirely different than what the players on the squad think of him.  All that being said, there are no excuses for him this year.  The team will be (hopefully) healthy to start the year.  We're in a good position in the East to make the playoffs.  Let's see what Wittman can do.  I've maintained that he hasn't done anything to lose his job (yet), so I'm all for giving him a chance to grow and succeed with this team.  If he falters, there are other options out there.  With this team and franchise crawling its way back to respectability, there should be a good group of coaches out there willing to take control if Wittman falters.  Until then, he's the coach and I have no problem with him. 

 

SM - in regards to Ves.  It's encouraging that he seemingly understands what is being expected of him.  I really think if he can carry his momentum over to the regular season, he'll get consistent minutes.  The way Ves looked last year, there is NO way that any coach or player would trust him on the floor.  I've quoted AJ Price before, but I think it's appropriate to bring it up again:

 

“I’ve heard it out of his own mouth,” Price explained. “He doesn’t

like to go to the free-throw line, because everybody’s watching. It’s a

confidence thing, so you know exactly what the issue is with him. It’s

up to him to find that piece, or that confidence. However he’s going to

find it, it’s up to him to find it.”

 

Link

 

I think you can apply his lack of confidence w/ FTs to other aspects of his game.  Price/Wittman are stating the obvious.  It's on Jan to get over this mental hurdle if 1) he wants to contribute, and 2) if he wants to keep a job in the league. 

[nfl guru]

I wouldn't put too much stock in comments from a roster thats went 4-28 without Wall.  These guys are very comfortably paid and have low expectations set upon them, of course they will have the time to go to bat for Wittman.  IMo, He's a motivator but terrible with X's and O's.

 

I predict by midseason, there will be fans calling for his job once the wizards fail to A) Win on the road and B )Beat the teams they're supposed to beat.  They have yet to prove they can do these 2 things consistently 

Edited July 18, 2013 by nfl guru

[pjfootballer]

Do some of you who are in Wittmans corner think a lot of his criticism comes from his time in Minnesota and that is what some Wizards fans are basing him on? I don't see enough games to know what the real problem is other than injuries the last couple of years.

[Going Commando]

Do some of you who are in Wittmans corner think a lot of his criticism comes from his time in Minnesota and that is what some Wizards fans are basing him on? I don't see enough games to know what the real problem is other than injuries the last couple of years.

I think his record in Minnesota is definitely a factor. He was pretty bad there and his mis-use of Kevin Love suggests he doesn't know how to handle young big men. Also suggests he's not a creative, big picture thinker.

Most of the rest of it comes from last year and the year before. The offense looked really bad and plain. The rotations and lineup management were questionable. He'd look lost and unable to cope with events on the court. Young players seem to be regressing since he took over and he's become reliant on his vets. And worst of all, I think he was poorly prepared for last season. We knew about Wall's and Nene's injuries for a while before the year started. We were embarrassingly bad without Wall because the team didn't have well defined roles for the players prior to the start of the year and we spent three months trying anything and everything out on the court. Other teams like Dallas and Minnesota and Chicago lost their stars but didn't go 5-28.

Edited July 18, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Part of Randy's problem is that he's a perpetual stop gap coach. He gets moved down the bench for struggling teams on an interim basis usually. So he's always coaching for his job. So he never has any interest in developing long term projects like young bigs if there are available veteran options.

But the reason Randy is the NBA's spare coach is because he's not a great coach. We saw the rudimentary and sluggish offensive system where we labored for the entire shot clock to hoist bad shots without an elite, transcendent talent at PG. We saw the crap lineup management. We saw the embarrassing losing culminating in the worst stretch in franchise history under his watch. We saw his terrible coaching in Minnesota. We know he's a substandard coach.

The one thing he's got going for him is the support of most of the players here. And he represents some continuity, which we desperately need if we're gearing up to win this year. And that's definitely not nothing. That's why I think firing him this summer wasn't really an option. But finding an upgrade next offseason should be on the table.

[Destino]

Poisoned the team's chemistry? Huh?

Yes. He might care and be liked, but when he decided to change everyone's roles on almost a nightly basis, he set the team back. It's impossible to build chemistry on a team with a lineup a rotation that changes constantly.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Destino

[Thinking Skins]

stevemcqueen1, on 18 Jul 2013 - 15:55, said:

And worst of all, I think he was poorly prepared for last season. We knew about Wall's and Nene's injuries for a while before the year started. We were embarrassingly bad without Wall because the team didn't have well defined roles for the players prior to the start of the year and we spent three months trying anything and everything out on the court. Other teams like Dallas and Minnesota and Chicago lost their stars but didn't go 5-28.

This I have to disagree with. I mean, we didn't know Wall would be out half the season. We thought this was a minor thing and would have him limited til some time in November. Then it just kept dragging on. Add to that the fact that we had holdovers of Beal, Booker, Singleton, Vesely, Nene, and Crawford with new guys Ariza, Okafur, Price, and Webster. So either he plays the new guys which involves getting chemistry and learning to trust one another, or he plays a bunch of young guys who throughout their history have shown a limited skillset and we have all pretty much cast them as role players and backups (minus Beal).

[RonArtest15]

stevemcqueen1, on 18 Jul 2013 - 15:55, said:

And worst of all, I think he was poorly prepared for last season. We knew about Wall's and Nene's injuries for a while before the year started. We were embarrassingly bad without Wall because the team didn't have well defined roles for the players prior to the start of the year and we spent three months trying anything and everything out on the court. Other teams like Dallas and Minnesota and Chicago lost their stars but didn't go 5-28.

This I have to disagree with. I mean, we didn't know Wall would be out half the season. We thought this was a minor thing and would have him limited til some time in November. Then it just kept dragging on. Add to that the fact that we had holdovers of Beal, Booker, Singleton, Vesely, Nene, and Crawford with new guys Ariza, Okafur, Price, and Webster. So either he plays the new guys which involves getting chemistry and learning to trust one another, or he plays a bunch of young guys who throughout their history have shown a limited skillset and we have all pretty much cast them as role players and backups (minus Beal).

 

My line of thinking as well.

 

No excuses for Randy this year.  And yes...I do have high-hopes for him, as well as the team.