The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

stevemcqueen1, on 18 Jul 2013 - 15:55, said:

And worst of all, I think he was poorly prepared for last season. We knew about Wall's and Nene's injuries for a while before the year started. We were embarrassingly bad without Wall because the team didn't have well defined roles for the players prior to the start of the year and we spent three months trying anything and everything out on the court. Other teams like Dallas and Minnesota and Chicago lost their stars but didn't go 5-28.

This I have to disagree with. I mean, we didn't know Wall would be out half the season. We thought this was a minor thing and would have him limited til some time in November. Then it just kept dragging on. Add to that the fact that we had holdovers of Beal, Booker, Singleton, Vesely, Nene, and Crawford with new guys Ariza, Okafur, Price, and Webster. So either he plays the new guys which involves getting chemistry and learning to trust one another, or he plays a bunch of young guys who throughout their history have shown a limited skillset and we have all pretty much cast them as role players and backups (minus Beal).

Regardless, they knew Wall was going to be out for some time before the season started. There is no excuse for how much shuffling we went through, how bad we played, and how much we lost. The Mavs and TWolves both missed their franchise players too and they had a bunch of new guys coming in last season and they didn't go 0-12, 3-23, and 5-28. The Mavs kept afloat and played close to .500 ball the whole year. That's what a great coach like Rick Carlisle can do even with terrible injury luck. A bad coach like Wittman will oversee the worst stretch in franchise history.

Injuries do matter, but they're not an excuse for how bad we got. Injuries happen and if we completely fall apart like that every time, then the team isn't good and the leadership is worse.

Edited July 19, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Thinking Skins]

I'm probably going to get ridiculed for this, but everybody was so excited about the Bulls and Tom Thibodeau because of the defensive mentality he was able to bring to Rose and the Bulls. Last year, even before Wall came back we had a similar defensive mentality and I was glad to see it. I mean, I know they don't count moral victories but I remember so many games last year where we missed a buzzer beater or sacrificed a lead late. So I know people want to look at the 5-28 without Wall as an excuse for not preparing but I think in many regards this was a team that was beginning to gel during that period and learning to win. I'm not saying that Wittman's stock will rise the same way that Thibodeau's did, but we now have a mentality and its the one we tried to install with Eddie Jordan and Gilbert Arenas back during our last playoff run but we couldn't get our star player to buy into it and our other star couldn't play defense if his life depended on it. So we'd win games 110-108 or something crazy like that. I'm more than willing to give Wittman the benefit of the doubt this year.<br /><br />And I think its just wrong to try to blame Vesely on Wittman. I mean part of it's his confidence, part of it is his being new to the country and part of it is his desire. I mean, I

[StillUnknown]

The horrific start to the season was just one of Wittman's problems. His road record, even with Wall in the lineup, is not very good. As much credit as Wittman gets for getting the team ready to play the top teams in the league, he also deserves criticism for the team's showing against opponents at the bottom of the barrel (going 1-7 combined against Charlotte & Detroit).

 

Combine those woes with his seemingly inability to develop younger players, bigs in particular, and its not hard to see why some of us want a better guy in charge.

 

I don't have anything against the guy personally. If nothing else, he's proven himself to be a hard worker, but he's the kind of coach that needs everything around him to be perfect in order to average.

[Destino]

Randy has gotten the team to play defense.  I give him credit for that.  

 

His offense is crap and depends entirely on Wall making something happen for everyone else with the occasional pick and roll thrown in.  The wizards offense relies on the talent as opposed to any X and O strategy so when they lost Wall the team had no primary ball handler to make the offense go.  The Wizards also have a roster full of players that can't be trusted to dribble the ball, that's Grunfeld's fault, but Randy knew it and should have prepared for it.  

 

His rotations were also suspect virtually all season long.  In this thread we'd all talk about his constantly yanking the hot hand at the worst possible time.  His 4th quarter moves were down right maddening to watch at times and he'd wait far too long to do something about it.  

 

How many games did anyone watch where they thought "wow the Wizards look like a wonderfully coaches team!"  I still remember Garrett Temple checking in, cold, to guard Isiah Thomas on the last shot.  This is already a questionable move.  The fact that no one told Temple that Thomas was left handed though was just ridiculous.  Thomas was "forced" left and the wizards lost.  

 

I'd love for Randy to turn into a great coach but right now from what I've seen I can't say he's even average.  I think he loses more games than your average coach in the regular season with questionable decisions.  

[StillUnknown]

Marc SteinVerified account
‏@ESPNSteinLine
Buzz in Vegas at Team USA camp: John Wall & Wiz are nearing agreement on five-year deal in $80 mil range that should be finalized by Aug. 1

 

 

 

really hope those last couple of months was the emergence of the player Wall will become.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Marc SteinVerified account

‏@ESPNSteinLine

Buzz in Vegas at Team USA camp: John Wall & Wiz are nearing agreement on five-year deal in $80 mil range that should be finalized by Aug. 1

 

 

 

really hope those last couple of months was the emergence of the player Wall will become.

 

I like it.  He's worth it...Gotta stay healthy.

[Destino]

Marc SteinVerified account

‏@ESPNSteinLine

Buzz in Vegas at Team USA camp: John Wall & Wiz are nearing agreement on five-year deal in $80 mil range that should be finalized by Aug. 1

really hope those last couple of months was the emergence of the player Wall will become.

I don't understand why the team would offer a max deal right now. Is there a reason to make him that offer now and not after this season? He's not going to be a UFA so what's the problem? Just offer a less than max now and tell him that if he doesn't want to sign it a max deal will be waiting for him after the season if his play and health earn it.

[Hersh]

I second the thought that it doesn't make sense to offer him a max deal right now. Play a full season to insure your health and the ability to help the Wizards really win first.

 

If I'm Wall I sign it as fast as possible coming off a knee injury.

[StillUnknown]

Marc SteinVerified account

‏@ESPNSteinLine

Buzz in Vegas at Team USA camp: John Wall & Wiz are nearing agreement on five-year deal in $80 mil range that should be finalized by Aug. 1

really hope those last couple of months was the emergence of the player Wall will become.

I don't understand why the team would offer a max deal right now. Is there a reason to make him that offer now and not after this season? He's not going to be a UFA so what's the problem? Just offer a less than max now and tell him that if he doesn't want to sign it a max deal will be waiting for him after the season if his play and health earn it.

 

After making him the focal point of the rebuild/re-branding, I can't see Dumb & Dumber taking the chance of upsetting Wall in any fashion. In a perfect world, we would wait a bit and make sure his 2nd half wasn't a mirage. They've poured so much into selling Wall as the franchise, that it doesn't make PR sense to quibble over a few dollars. In this franchise, PR is on equal footing with basketball decisions.

 

Hope Wall is prepared for the extra scrutiny of his game that will come with that max deal.

 

All that said, I'm optimistic that Wall will end up justifying the deal.

[Skin'emAlive]

Im actually quite surprised by the amount of hate people have around the nba for this contract. People are down on him from a summer league game 2 years ago! Thats how irrelevant our team has been in the national media the past few years. Wall has to put up some wins next season or hes going to feel the heat. I think its funny that the only good things ive even read about wall from message boards has been either " hes good, but not that good." or " at least the bullets was a cool name ".

 

Personally, i think its a good signing. Our team is completely built around him. Cant take a chance of him bolting now. All in at this point...

[StillUnknown]

Im actually quite surprised by the amount of hate people have around the nba for this contract. People are down on him from a summer league game 2 years ago! Thats how irrelevant our team has been in the national media the past few years. Wall has to put up some wins next season or hes going to feel the heat. I think its funny that the only good things ive even read about wall from message boards has been either " hes good, but not that good." or " at least the bullets was a cool name ".

 

Personally, i think its a good signing. Our team is completely built around him. Cant take a chance of him bolting now. All in at this point...

 

After listening to some of the commentary from the Summer League on NBA TV, its not that surprising. I don't think people have feel for the Wizards nationally. I remember one of the analyst stating that Vesely was a good jump shooter, Dennis Scott said we really need to improve our team defense.

 

Very few national talking heads put out accurate info on the team so its not surprising when other fans use terrible arguments against us.

Edited July 25, 2013 by StillUnknown

[StillUnknown]

Zach Lowe with a reasoned take on the Wall contract:

 

The Wizards are making a bet, and if Wall plays this season as he played the final two months or so of last season, it’s a bet Washington will either win handily or lose by such a small margin that it’s ultimately meaningless. But it’s a bet they in no way have to make, and probably shouldn’t. Without an extension by October 31, Wall would enter restricted free agency next summer, a process the incumbent team — the Wizards — controls almost completely. The very worst possible outcome, at least among outcomes that are even remotely likely, is that Wall signs a max-level offer sheet with another team — a deal the Wizards, if they are so inclined, could immediately match.

 

much more in the link

[Destino]

I read on bulletsforever comments that contracts have to match options as well as dollars and length. Could some team offer Wall a 4 year contract with a player option starting in year 2? Would a wizards 5 year offer have to match that option? If so I can see why extending him now makes sense, especially with a desperate laker franchise out there.

[Destino]

Wall hasn't been great in the team USA scrim but he stole a put back from unibrow there

[Going Commando]

Im actually quite surprised by the amount of hate people have around the nba for this contract. People are down on him from a summer league game 2 years ago! Thats how irrelevant our team has been in the national media the past few years. Wall has to put up some wins next season or hes going to feel the heat. I think its funny that the only good things ive even read about wall from message boards has been either " hes good, but not that good." or " at least the bullets was a cool name ".

 

Personally, i think its a good signing. Our team is completely built around him. Cant take a chance of him bolting now. All in at this point...

I agree, except I'd specify that we've been all in with Wall the moment we picked him first overall. He was our shot. We've been building around him since then and this is the next step in the process.

The signing is only an issue if you don't believe in Wall, because this is a normal move. I think most of the anxiety from Wizards fans about this comes from Arenas and, to a lesser extent, Blatche. But those two have nothing to do with Wall, and you don't compound those mistakes by letting it effect your relationship and dealings with Wall.

[Going Commando]

Marc SteinVerified account

‏@ESPNSteinLine

Buzz in Vegas at Team USA camp: John Wall & Wiz are nearing agreement on five-year deal in $80 mil range that should be finalized by Aug. 1

really hope those last couple of months was the emergence of the player Wall will become.

I don't understand why the team would offer a max deal right now. Is there a reason to make him that offer now and not after this season? He's not going to be a UFA so what's the problem? Just offer a less than max now and tell him that if he doesn't want to sign it a max deal will be waiting for him after the season if his play and health earn it.

The reason you extend him the summer before is because that's just what you do with your franchise player(s). When they're coming up for their second deal, they don't generally get to RFA. Only the ones who are good, but not viewed as franchise players (or are franchise type players but with serious problems like Cousins) actually make it to RFA. The Clippers signed Griffin early. The Thunder did it with Durant and Westbrook. The Bulls did it with Rose. The Celtics did it with rondo. The Warriors did it with Curry. And the Rockets did it with Harden. It's a signal to everyone, including the player, the team, and outside FAs that you're building around this guy. It's a demonstration of your plan. And it helps maintain harmony with your franchise player and gives the team an identity, lets his teammates know it's his team and they're playing roles to support him.

We know we want to build around Wall, I don't think there is any uncertainty at all about that in the FO. Given that, there really is no reason to wait. You can disagree with the general plan of building around Wall. But I don't think you can argue this isn't the next logical step in the process.

Personally, I think it's better to have a questionable plan and stick to it and carry it out than have no plan at all. And I think waffling with Wall on an extension all year is tantamount to having no plan. If we're planning and hedging for situations where we don't want to bring him back, that we're better off without him, then what have we really been doing the past four years? What are we going to do next? You've got to have a star(s) to build around.

But I don't think we're that desperate. I actually think the plan of building around Wall is a good one. There's no question in my mind that Wall is good enough today to be an elite player fully worthy of the mini max. And I think he's still got MVP type upside once he hits his prime. I think his production is only lagging behind because of circumstance--D League caliber roster around him + the stress fracture taking away 33 games this past season. I think those circumstances that limited his production will actually help him in the end though because he got Beal and Porter out of it, giving him a worthy supporting cast early-ish in his career. He's 22 and they're 20. Built through the draft too so it should be sustainable.

[JoeWolf990]

if the Wizards think Wall is the franchise player, you dont want to piss him off by making him wait on an extension..

 

Kevin Love is an example of that.

[Going Commando]

Rookie PF on the Wizards on 2K13 my career mode. Just had a 27 point, 17 rebound, 6 assist, 6 block game on 11-13 shooting from the field. Team scored 127 points and won by 42.

That's all the Wizards need to start winning. A shot blocking, glass eating, three point shooting, pick and roll machine.

[Quincy]

Rookie PF on the Wizards on 2K13 my career mode. Just had a 27 point, 17 rebound, 6 assist, 6 block game on 11-13 shooting from the field. Team scored 127 points and won by 42.

That's all the Wizards need to start winning. A shot blocking, glass eating, three point shooting, pick and roll machine.

And I'm pretty sure that's all the potential Grunfeld saw in Jan Vesely when he was drafted.

[Destino]

So how do you guys think the Pistons and the Cavs moves affect the Wizards chances.  The Cavs added Bynum and Kyrie is going into year three which tends to be a big year for guards.  If Bynum manages to actually get on the court they could make a giant leap in the standings.  The Pistons may have the worse floor spacing in the league with a front line made up of Smith, Monroe, and Drummond but there is no denying the talent there or the defensive potential.  They've also just added Jennings who adds another flawed player to their flawed line up but it does raise their talent level.  They could also be a low level playoff team all of the sudden. 

[Skin'emAlive]

So how do you guys think the Pistons and the Cavs moves affect the Wizards chances.  The Cavs added Bynum and Kyrie is going into year three which tends to be a big year for guards.  If Bynum manages to actually get on the court they could make a giant leap in the standings.  The Pistons may have the worse floor spacing in the league with a front line made up of Smith, Monroe, and Drummond but there is no denying the talent there or the defensive potential.  They've also just added Jennings who adds another flawed player to their flawed line up but it does raise their talent level.  They could also be a low level playoff team all of the sudden. 

Jennings gets alot of undeserved flak. The Bucks have treated him poorly for the past few years, and then spat in his face with a larger offer for Ellis than him. Hes a good player, who stopped trying on a team that didnt want him. I think his poor shot selection was due to his disdain for Milwaukee. I think this is an amazing pickup for Detroit. They now have 2 guys who can stretch the floor to combine with probably the scariest front court in the east now. I didnt have them going anywhere before, but now they are going to put a hurting on many a team in the east.

 

We really gotta hope that Wall makes the leap, Nene stays somewhat healthy, and Seraphin becomes the guy to replace either Nene or Okafor. Hes got the offense, but he needs to work on his passing from the post, and rebounding.

[Destino]

The Nene deal is really going to haunt us if he can't get back into form.  I'd rather have Josh Smith at 13.5 million a year than Nene at 13 million.  Nene can play both the 4 and 5 which has value but he really looks to be on the decline and 13 points + 7 boards (both more than he managed last year) just isn't worth the price tag.  Last year Okafor was the better of the two bigs, hopefully Nene can reverse that this year because Okafor is going to be the one of the two departing. 

[RonArtest15]

Jennings is just gonna do his time in Detroit until he can get back to LA. I see more of the same from him as we did when he was in Milwaukee. He's one of the most inefficient players I've seen in today's NBA.

IMO, it's imperative that we try to move Nene. Like Destino pointed out, that deal is going to haunt this team (and cripple flexibility going forward) if he can't stay healthy. He's a declinging big, but he can be effective when on the floor.

I would love to bring in one of these two guys. Patrick Patterson or Omer Asik.

[CrypticVillain]

David Aldridge @daldridgetnt

Wizards "almost there" on max extension for John Wall, per source.

[StillUnknown]

Michael Lee
‏@MrMichaelLee
Source: John Wall has officially signed a maximum contract extension worth approximately $80 million over 5 years #wizards