The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Hersh]

Yup.  The roster looks pretty good, especially when you think about what it looked like two seasons ago.  

 

Wall / Maynor 

Beal / Temple / Rice Jr.

Webster / Ariza / Porter 

Nene / Harrington / Booker / Singleton 

Okafor / Seraphin / Vesely 

 

As currently constructed neither rookie has to play much unless they earn their way onto the court or someone gets injured.  I doubt that this team is going to put Porter or Rice Jr. on the court very much unless they beat out the vets ahead of them for minutes.  This team is very much in "win now" mode. 

 

A second unit of Maynor, Temple, Ariza, Harrington and Seraphin will scare nobody. If anything, Webster should be coming off the bench to provide scoring for the second unit. BTW, if Porter doesn't play big minutes, let alone not start, than it's a completely wasted draft pick. #3 picks need to contribute pretty much from day one.

My hope is that Porter is good enough to start and Webster and Rice Jr come off the bench as some scoring SG/SF combo.

[pjfootballer]

On paper, my prediction is 40-42. Under .500 you say? Well, I think it's an improvement from my last years prediction of 25-57. I was four games off last year.

[StillUnknown]

I'd go a step further, I'd think that firing Wittman would be a bad move. Players like Wall, Nene, and now Harrington came, particularly liking Wittman. If we fire him now what does that do to them? And would we fire him to bring in a big name (are we so big now that a Phil Jackson would want to coach here?) or another developmental coach?

 

I'd go as far as to say that if it weren't for Wittman's history that precedes him, he may easily be our version of Tim T. for the Bulls. I mean the guy got this team playing defensive ball and hustling. People want to act like he's horrible but look at how bad Doc Walker looked in Boston before the KG trade.

 

Call me a fearful fan, but if we get something working I don't want to make massive changes to it out of spite. That goes for Ernie too.

 

Wall is locked in now, Nene/Harrington should not be in the long term plans. Getting a better offensive mind who can make better use of Wall's gifts should appeal to Wall.

 

Thibs got his team to a decent seed in the playoffs without a former league MVP. Wittman literally couldn't win a game without Wall. He is in no way comparable to Thibs.

 

Grunfeld is the GM equivalent of Blatche, he needs to be cut away at any costs.

Edited August 15, 2013 by StillUnknown

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

BTW, if Porter doesn't play big minutes, let alone not start, than it's a completely wasted draft pick. #3 picks need to contribute pretty much from day one.

 

Before we go any further, how exactly are you defining "big minutes"?

Wall is locked in now, Nene/Harrington should not be in the long term plans. Getting a better offensive mind who can make better use of Wall's gifts should appeal to Wall.

 

Thibs got his team to a decent seed in the playoffs without a former league MVP. Wittman literally couldn't win a game without Wall. He is in no way comparable to Thibs.

 

Grunfeld is the GM equivalent of Blatche, he needs to be cut away at any costs.

 

It'll always kill me how close we were to have Thibs here.  I will always hate Eddie Jordan for that one.

[Destino]

Porter doesn't have to start or play big minutes for him not to be a wasted pick. He has to be good 3 years from now. Perimeter players take that long to show their stuff. Rookies do not win in the NBA. Young teams generally do not win in the NBA. The team already has a second year player starting, if they really want to win now I can't imagine Porter getting big minutes unless he's immediately better than Webster and Ariza. Not potential but better right now today (which I do not think he is). I don't think they will trade wins for development this season.

I would be surprised if Beal has a consistent year as a 2nd year player. I think he's going to have an up and down year again, especially having spent an offseason hurt. Thats just the waythe league works, and why the draft is never the answer for a team that wants to win in the short term. Beal is better than Temple or Rice Jr though so he's going to get all the minutes he wants before face planting on a drive or rebound and injuring himself.

Thibs got his team to a decent seed in the playoffs without a former league MVP. Wittman literally couldn't win a game without Wall. He is in no way comparable to Thibs.

Wittman couldn't win without Wall and couldn't win on the road with Wall. The team was 7-34 on the road, 2nd worst in the league. He's a big part of the reason why I'm not sold on the team making the playoffs. Edited August 16, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

A second unit of Maynor, Temple, Ariza, Harrington and Seraphin will scare nobody. If anything, Webster should be coming off the bench to provide scoring for the second unit. BTW, if Porter doesn't play big minutes, let alone not start, than it's a completely wasted draft pick. #3 picks need to contribute pretty much from day one.

My hope is that Porter is good enough to start and Webster and Rice Jr come off the bench as some scoring SG/SF combo.

The success of any draft pick isn't determined in the first year. Porter will almost certainly carve out a spot in the rotation, but he's unlikely to start early. Ariza and Webster are good players and one of them will probably be the day one starter.

I doubt Porter moves into the starting role early on unless there is an injury or Ariza gets traded.

I could see both of those things happening though.

[Hersh]

Before we go any further, how exactly are you defining "big minutes"?

 

Big minutes was probably a little strong, but I would say he should be getting 20 minutes per game.

[Hersh]

Porter doesn't have to start or play big minutes for him not to be a wasted pick. He has to be good 3 years from now. Perimeter players take that long to show their stuff. Rookies do not win in the NBA. Young teams generally do not win in the NBA. The team already has a second year player starting, if they really want to win now I can't imagine Porter getting big minutes unless he's immediately better than Webster and Ariza.

 

I would only agree with this if Porter was drafted to be a scorer. However, all the talk is that Porter is supposed to do everything else. He's supposed to be a glue guy rebounding, defending, passing, generally being able to play without the ball in his hands. These are things he should be able to contribute right away. If winning right away was the goal and Porter won't be part of winning right away, the pick should have been traded or someone else who could contribute now should have been drafted. After all, Porter wasn't the guy with the most upside of this draft according to all the experts.

[Going Commando]

I would only agree with this if Porter was drafted to be a scorer. However, all the talk is that Porter is supposed to do everything else. He's supposed to be a glue guy rebounding, defending, passing, generally being able to play without the ball in his hands. These are things he should be able to contribute right away. If winning right away was the goal and Porter won't be part of winning right away, the pick should have been traded or someone else who could contribute now should have been drafted. After all, Porter wasn't the guy with the most upside of this draft according to all the experts.

You don't make draft picks to try and win right away with them. It's just not possible with any pick. Not even LeBron won in his rookie year. If your goal is short term winning, you rely on the veterans you've already got for that. You build for it seasons in advance.

Draft picks are for building for the future, and a top three pick is one of the most valuable long term team building assets there is. It's a losing bet to deal them away unless you get a young perennial All Star back because you won't recoup the long term value of the pick otherwise. Particularly since rookie contracts are usually the best bargains. You spend a top three pick hoping to get a player that will be a foundation piece for at least eight to ten years. Short term value never trumps superior long term value for draft picks. You always have to pick the guy who you think is going to be the best player and best fit for your 3, 5, 8, 10+ years down the road.

That was the goal of the Porter pick. It'll take years to determine whether he'll become that, except in the unlikely event he blows up very early in his career.

FWIW, a lot of people said Porter was the best player in the class. He's not the best athlete in the class. But that doesn't mean he still doesn't have a ton of upside left. He does.

And also, it almost always takes young players a while to learn to play defense well and play off the ball and shoot well. The NBA is hard on rookies no matter what.

[Going Commando]

I like the Harrington signing. The money was good. He's supposedly healthy. He fits in with the character of the team from an intangibles perspective. He's been around forever for being 33. And he takes and makes a ton of threes.

He's going to get the opportunity to just fire away from three if he gets on the court with Wall.

I think the character aspect of all our acquisitions has been very important. No clowns or losers. Even the players at the end of the roster are character guys with good basketball IQs--Temple, Harrington, Maynor. There is a culture of unselfishness and seriousness that's team wide now.

It pissed RealGM off, but I'm glad we chose less touted guys over higher profile players with a nod towards organizational fit and basketball IQ. Maynor over Nate Robinson for example. Nate's a gunner, Maynor is a facilitator.

I'm looking forward to the season for the most part. This might be the smartest team we've had in decades, I want to see good basketball for a change.

Though it's kind of ironic that we would get good right before a pair of draft classes loaded with potential superstars comes along. I have a feeling that the teams who get the top 3-5 picks this year and next year are going to be the future power teams once they finish rebuilding. Charlotte with Zeller, MKG, and Randle/Gordon/Wiggins/Parker suddenly seems loaded. Orlando with Oladipo and one of those forwards plus Tobias Harris and Vucevic does too. As does Philly with one of them plus Noel and MCW. Or say Milwaukee takes a step back this season and gets a star scoring perimeter player to match with Sanders and Henson. Not bad.

Or Cleveland getting one of the top guys this year would be bad too.

[Going Commando]

Utah has no starters over 23 years old. Very likely to lose a ton of games. But with Burke, Favors, Kanter, and a star scorer like Parker or Wiggins, that team would be dangerous as hell.

Wiggins in Toronto would also be interesting. Good big man in place in Valanciunas plus some wing shooters.

Lots of the bad teams have a good foundation of young talent to put around the studs at the top of this year's class.

If I could pick one guy from the group for the Wizards who isn't being talked about as much, I'd go for Noah Vonleh.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Big minutes was probably a little strong, but I would say he should be getting 20 minutes per game.

Ah ok. I went through and looked at the rookie seasons of every #3 overall pick since the 1990 draft. Don't have the exact figurees, but off the top of my head, and surprising to me, 2/3's of them averaged more than 30mpg their rookie years. Of the remaining 1/3, I think only Enes Kanter (of last year no less), played less than 20mpg

[StillUnknown]

Beyond Porter looking better as the season progresses, I'm not exactly sure what I expect out of him for this season.

[Sticksboi05]

Harrington was a good signing.  Stretch PF, who when is healthy can give some minutes.

[Going Commando]

Beyond Porter looking better as the season progresses, I'm not exactly sure what I expect out of him for this season.

Numbers-wise, I doubt he puts up much in the way of volume this year. The numbers at the SF spot are going to be split three ways between him, Webster, and Ariza. None of them will post high averages I bet.

Porter's progress will be judged in how comfortable he looks IMO. Playing good D. Avoiding turnovers. Making good decisions and taking good shots. Regularly making smart plays that don't show up in stats but will lead to wins like Beal did last season. We want him to look good playing within our system when he gets onto the court.

If he looks really uncomfortable for most of the year, that's a bad sign IMO.

If he can play as many minutes as Kawhi Leonard did, and the team wins a lot, I think that'd be a very successful rookie year for Porter. Probably exceed my expectations really.

I'm predicting Zeller or Trey Burke for ROTY.

Also, how quickly Porter adds the NBA 3 to his arsenal will be a measure of progress for me. I want to see him taking and making threes this season.

[Hersh]

You don't make draft picks to try and win right away with them. It's just not possible with any pick. Not even LeBron won in his rookie year. If your goal is short term winning, you rely on the veterans you've already got for that. You build for it seasons in advance.

Draft picks are for building for the future, and a top three pick is one of the most valuable long term team building assets there is. It's a losing bet to deal them away unless you get a young perennial All Star back because you won't recoup the long term value of the pick otherwise. Particularly since rookie contracts are usually the best bargains. You spend a top three pick hoping to get a player that will be a foundation piece for at least eight to ten years. Short term value never trumps superior long term value for draft picks. You always have to pick the guy who you think is going to be the best player and best fit for your 3, 5, 8, 10+ years down the road.

That was the goal of the Porter pick. It'll take years to determine whether he'll become that, except in the unlikely event he blows up very early in his career.

FWIW, a lot of people said Porter was the best player in the class. He's not the best athlete in the class. But that doesn't mean he still doesn't have a ton of upside left. He does.

And also, it almost always takes young players a while to learn to play defense well and play off the ball and shoot well. The NBA is hard on rookies no matter what.

 

First off, you completely ignored what I said about "if the goal is to win now." My comments about Porter started when Destino had him as the third string SF on his depth chart. A third string SF is basically not going to play at all. That would be fine if the Wiz were a top four team in the east year after year, but this team has sucked year after year.

 

Second, of course there no absolutes and everything is based on the perspective of which team is drafting.

 

Third, we have to stop pretending that the Wizards have all these good players. This team was terrible last year and guys putting up good numbers on a bad team, doesn't make them good players. Webster and Ariza are decent players, but we should have expectations that the #3 pick in the draft should be able to take minutes away from them. I don't see how it's a good idea for the three of them to be splitting minutes at one position.

 

Given what the Wiz have now, this is how my depth chart would be:

 

Wall-Maynor

Beal-Webster

Ariza-Porter (to start the season)

Nene-Harrington

Okafor-Seraphin

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I would put CP3/Rose/Rondo/Westbrook/Curry (assuming good health) over Wall.

 

Parker is better than him now, but he has a lot of miles. Not sure what to make to D-Will to be honest.

 

Wall & Irving are on the same plane IMO, both have extreme talent, but in different areas. I like Wall's potential, but Kyrie's floor is higher.

 

Lillard & Conley are a notch below.

 

 

If Wall comes close to his potential, he might not take a backseat to anyone on that list.

What do you mean by Kyrie's ceiling is higher? In what way...

[Destino]

The 2013 draft was deep in good players but there didnt appear to be any obvious great or star players. If things go well, but not great, Porter will be Trevor Ariza with a better spot up jumper. I don't think he's got the athleticism or strength to drive or create consistently. His game will be defense, set shooting, and off ball movement to get easy buckets. He doesn't have the upside of Beal or Wall.

That's not to say he's a bad pick up. If Ariza ever managed to score in the mid teens with a high fg% he'd have been loved by all.

[StillUnknown]

What do you mean by Kyrie's ceiling is higher? In what way...

 

Didn't say ceiling, I said Kyrie's floor is higher.

[Going Commando]

First off, you completely ignored what I said about "if the goal is to win now." My comments about Porter started when Destino had him as the third string SF on his depth chart. A third string SF is basically not going to play at all. That would be fine if the Wiz were a top four team in the east year after year, but this team has sucked year after year.

 

Second, of course there no absolutes and everything is based on the perspective of which team is drafting.

 

Third, we have to stop pretending that the Wizards have all these good players. This team was terrible last year and guys putting up good numbers on a bad team, doesn't make them good players. Webster and Ariza are decent players, but we should have expectations that the #3 pick in the draft should be able to take minutes away from them. I don't see how it's a good idea for the three of them to be splitting minutes at one position.

 

Given what the Wiz have now, this is how my depth chart would be:

 

Wall-Maynor

Beal-Webster

Ariza-Porter (to start the season)

Nene-Harrington

Okafor-Seraphin

The goal is to win now, but also win over the long term. They're not mutually exclusive goals for us because we built up a mix of young and vet players. So we can make a pick like Porter with an eye towards long term value and still achieve short term goals of a massive bump in wins.

I think you're underestimating Ariza and Webster. When Wall returned to the lineup, both really found a groove. Both are coming off excellent seasons where they reached some new levels of play for themselves.

Ariza ended up being one of the best defensive SFs in the league last season and one of the best perimeter defenders overall. Plus he experienced a huge jump in his shooting numbers from the previous three or four years. I don't know if he's ever shot the ball as well as he did last year. I'd say most of the league does not have a sixth man as productive as he was last year.

Webster also had a career year, reinvented himself here. He's a great intangible fit here, really took to the locker room from day one and became a leader. He also shot unbelievably well from 3 once Wall came back, up until he was wrecked by his abdominal injury at the end of the year. In a mostly healthy season, he's capable of shooting over 40% from three for us, making two or three a game, rebounding and running the floor and playing active D, plus fulfilling leadership duties. That's a really valuable player.

What that says to me is that they fit in uniquely well here.

The reason having them now doesn't clash with Porter in the future is because Ariza is in the final year of his deal and probably won't be back after this season. Webster is capable of starting or being a sixth man. And Ariza is capable of playing minutes at PF and SG because he is so long and can defend so many different positions. Webster is interchangeable at SG and SF. And he's probably tall and strong enough to play PF in small ball lineups like Ariza did last season. Porter will also be able to play some PF down the road when he gets stronger.

Porter will get onto the floor this season. I imagine we'll have a handful of line ups where he'll get into the game early. He'll start his career coming off the bench. Webster will probably start at SF like last year and Ariza will probably be the sixth man and the first sub for Beal and Webster. Nene's minutes will probably decline to 28-30 at the most, so there will be a lot of minutes available in the front court. Ariza will probably play a decent amount of PF.

[Going Commando]

The 2013 draft was deep in good players but there didnt appear to be any obvious great or star players. If things go well, but not great, Porter will be Trevor Ariza with a better spot up jumper. I don't think he's got the athleticism or strength to drive or create consistently. His game will be defense, set shooting, and off ball movement to get easy buckets. He doesn't have the upside of Beal or Wall.

That's not to say he's a bad pick up. If Ariza ever managed to score in the mid teens with a high fg% he'd have been loved by all.

If Ariza scored in the mid teens with a good FG%, he'd pretty much be an AS. His defense is that good. Ariza isn't an overly skilled scorer, shooter, or playmaker though. He'd struggle to make lay ups at times.

You're right that Porter doesn't have the upside Wall and Beal have. Wall's upside is unbelievably high: MVP caliber player in a tier with KD, LeBron, and Rose. He came into the league with one of the best raw skill sets of any guard except maybe DWade.

Beal is also a much better athlete than he got credit for as a draft prospect. He's actually an explosive athlete and he already had a very strong body at 19 years old. He's such a silky smooth shooter and ball handler that it tricks you into thinking he's slower and a finesse player when he really isn't. He'll take it up the baseline and dunk on opposing bigs. He's going to grow into the type of player that can make dropping 20 efficient points look very easy.

Porter has far better potential than Ariza though. Porter carried GTown to a top five ranking and a #2 seed without much in surrounding talent. He dropped 33 on a Syracuse D that stifled a lot of really good offensive players. He's a very skilled and natural offensive player. I think he's actually got a larger array of scoring skills than either Wall or Beal did coming out of college. Now he's not going to score as much as them because he's not as aggressive and skilled as Wall is today, and he doesn't have Beal's wet jumper. But I bet he scores in a greater variety of ways than them.

Porter isn't bulky, but he's a good interior finisher anyway. He has an ugly shot, but he's a good shooter anyway. He's not fast, but he still seems to run the break well and score in transition anyway. He doesn't have a great handle, not a dangerous slasher, but he still scores a lot and gets to the line a ton anyway.

He's just really really instinctive and has an old school offensive skill level. He understands angles and leverage and plays with anticipation and as such consistently finds himself in the best spots and makes himself very hard to defend. He's also got a very good post game already. That'll be a way he creates shots for himself when he starts with the ball in his hands.

If Ariza was as instinctive and natural an offensive player as Porter he could be an All Star. If Paul George was, he'd be one of the best players in the league.

[Hersh]

The goal is to win now, but also win over the long term. They're not mutually exclusive goals for us because we built up a mix of young and vet players. So we can make a pick like Porter with an eye towards long term value and still achieve short term goals of a massive bump in wins.

I think you're underestimating Ariza and Webster. When Wall returned to the lineup, both really found a groove. Both are coming off excellent seasons where they reached some new levels of play for themselves.

Ariza ended up being one of the best defensive SFs in the league last season and one of the best perimeter defenders overall. Plus he experienced a huge jump in his shooting numbers from the previous three or four years. I don't know if he's ever shot the ball as well as he did last year. I'd say most of the league does not have a sixth man as productive as he was last year.

Webster also had a career year, reinvented himself here. He's a great intangible fit here, really took to the locker room from day one and became a leader. He also shot unbelievably well from 3 once Wall came back, up until he was wrecked by his abdominal injury at the end of the year. In a mostly healthy season, he's capable of shooting over 40% from three for us, making two or three a game, rebounding and running the floor and playing active D, plus fulfilling leadership duties. That's a really valuable player.

What that says to me is that they fit in uniquely well here.

The reason having them now doesn't clash with Porter in the future is because Ariza is in the final year of his deal and probably won't be back after this season. Webster is capable of starting or being a sixth man. And Ariza is capable of playing minutes at PF and SG because he is so long and can defend so many different positions. Webster is interchangeable at SG and SF. And he's probably tall and strong enough to play PF in small ball lineups like Ariza did last season. Porter will also be able to play some PF down the road when he gets stronger.

Porter will get onto the floor this season. I imagine we'll have a handful of line ups where he'll get into the game early. He'll start his career coming off the bench. Webster will probably start at SF like last year and Ariza will probably be the sixth man and the first sub for Beal and Webster. Nene's minutes will probably decline to 28-30 at the most, so there will be a lot of minutes available in the front court. Ariza will probably play a decent amount of PF.

 

You are vastly overrating Ariza. It's one think for Beal to have struggled more when Wall was out of the lineup being that he was a rookie, but it's another for veterans to play poorly when Wall is out of the lineup. Almost all of Ariza stats are trending down over the last 4 years and if he's not apart of the long term future, I'd rather see the #3 pick take most of those minutes.

 

Webster played well and hopefully it isn't his peak since he's still young and has had other comparable seasons.

 

The problem I have with the roster is that this is basically the team we are looking at for the next few seasons and there will be a serious lack of depth on the front line. Not to mention this team could get caught in the 6-8 range of the playoffs which is the worst spot to be in unless you have salary cap space. It seems like Ariza should have been a movable asset for a big man to add depth where depth is needed. It's redundant to have as much small forward depth as this team does.

[Going Commando]

You are vastly overrating Ariza. It's one think for Beal to have struggled more when Wall was out of the lineup being that he was a rookie, but it's another for veterans to play poorly when Wall is out of the lineup. Almost all of Ariza stats are trending down over the last 4 years and if he's not apart of the long term future, I'd rather see the #3 pick take most of those minutes.

 

Webster played well and hopefully it isn't his peak since he's still young and has had other comparable seasons.

 

The problem I have with the roster is that this is basically the team we are looking at for the next few seasons and there will be a serious lack of depth on the front line. Not to mention this team could get caught in the 6-8 range of the playoffs which is the worst spot to be in unless you have salary cap space. It seems like Ariza should have been a movable asset for a big man to add depth where depth is needed. It's redundant to have as much small forward depth as this team does.

I'm basing my projection of Ariza's role on his individual performance from last season. He was the sixth man for most of the year last season, that's probably what he'll be this year unless Webster gets hurt and he gets bumped into the starting line up or he gets traded before the deadline.

Ariza's level of play was one of the best of his career last season. All of his shooting numbers too a massive bump from the previous several years. And he was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. He doubled his three pointers from the previous few seasons. And his TS% jumped 42 points and his eFG% jumped 50 points. Those are significant bumps, he went from being a garbage shooter to a respectable outside threat last year.

The reason several of the vets struggled without Wall is two fold. One, most are spot up shooters, not creative offensive players. Two, there was a leadership void that effected the entire roster. It's typical for teams that lose their star when they've only got one. Wall was our only creative offensive player aside from Nene, and Nene was hurt a lot too.

Ariza is a spot up shooter. He can't create for himself, he needs a player like Wall feeding him. We didn't have any legit playmakers in the backcourt without Wall last season. Beal was a rookie in the first few weeks of his NBA career, figuring everything out and he was probably still our only playmaker. Price was frequently hurt early on. He also isn't that good, and he's also much more of a set shooter himself, not a quality playmaker. And then it was just a revolving door of crap PGs on short term contracts like Shelvin Mack and Shaun Livingston, guys that struggled to run any sort of offense.

Most players who play off the ball would have struggled in that circumstance. Getting them the ball in a scoring spot was a big issue.

Ariza's defense was outstanding throughout the year though. His individual defensive numbers were among the best at his position in the NBA and he was easily the best perimeter defender on the team last year. He and Okafor pretty much powered us to a top ten defense. Before those two we were absolute garbage defensively.

[Hersh]

I'm basing my projection of Ariza's role on his individual performance from last season. He was the sixth man for most of the year last season, that's probably what he'll be this year unless Webster gets hurt and he gets bumped into the starting line up or he gets traded before the deadline.

Ariza's level of play was one of the best of his career last season. All of his shooting numbers too a massive bump from the previous several years. And he was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. He doubled his three pointers from the previous few seasons. And his TS% jumped 42 points and his eFG% jumped 50 points. Those are significant bumps, he went from being a garbage shooter to a respectable outside threat last year.

The reason several of the vets struggled without Wall is two fold. One, most are spot up shooters, not creative offensive players. Two, there was a leadership void that effected the entire roster. It's typical for teams that lose their star when they've only got one. Wall was our only creative offensive player aside from Nene, and Nene was hurt a lot too.

Ariza is a spot up shooter. He can't create for himself, he needs a player like Wall feeding him. We didn't have any legit playmakers in the backcourt without Wall last season. Beal was a rookie in the first few weeks of his NBA career, figuring everything out and he was probably still our only playmaker. Price was frequently hurt early on. He also isn't that good, and he's also much more of a set shooter himself, not a quality playmaker. And then it was just a revolving door of crap PGs on short term contracts like Shelvin Mack and Shaun Livingston, guys that struggled to run any sort of offense.

Most players who play off the ball would have struggled in that circumstance. Getting them the ball in a scoring spot was a big issue.

Ariza's defense was outstanding throughout the year though. His individual defensive numbers were among the best at his position in the NBA and he was easily the best perimeter defender on the team last year. He and Okafor pretty much powered us to a top ten defense. Before those two we were absolute garbage defensively.

 

We are obviously going to disagree on Ariza's value. At the end of the day, I think it's more important to get Porter minutes than to get minutes for a player that won't be here after this season. Especially since this team is only competing just to make the playoffs.

 

I am aware of why some of the vets struggled with Wall out which is a major reason they are overvalued and why this roster continues to be flawed. Only one playmaker on a team is terrible. Do you think they team has improved that in anyway over the off season?

[Destino]

Porter getting minutes doesn't matter. He has to mature physically before he really utilize his skills anyway. Plus when Ariza leaves he'll have plenty of minutes. This team is playing for more than playoffs, they are trying to attract free agents. Basically Wall needs to show that he's a star and the rest of the team good enough to compete if they added another key piece.

I think Wittman is going to be the biggest hindrance to that plan.