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BRAVEONAWARPATH

By BRAVEONAWARPATH
in The Tailgate

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

You can trade Gortat and Ariza for Monroe.  I say do it

If that's all it took, then I'd absolutely make the trade. But the contracts don't match up and you have to think the Pistons can get more return for Monroe than that.

What could we possibly offer them, or any team, of value in a trade? The team isn't going to move Wall or Beal and to get a good player they'd need to trade more than an expiring contract. Monroe would be a great fit with Wall and Beal, that's a terrific young core, but I don't see how they'd do it. He's going to demand a max deal so the wizards would need to shed Nene to even consider signing him.

I don't see us being able to trade for him. I think it has to come in the summer. If he's traded before the deadline, it's over. That team gets him. If he stays in Detroit and becomes an RFA this summer, then we have to offer him something Detroit won't match. Which might be necessitate a max offer.

Which is a little scary. That's a true boom or bust deal IMO. Could end up working out extremely well. Or it could be a move we look back on and ridicule like all of the Snyder FA busts for the Redskins.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted (edited)

They'd have because his current production isn't worth a max deal.  I think most people like his chances of improving.

You're right, it isn't worth the max. Bigs who aren't good defenders take a TON off the table from the get go because it's extremely difficult to build a good defensive team with a bad defensive big. So that's knock #1.

#2 is the fact he's regressed since his second season. That's not a good sign moving forward. Wall's production didn't justify the max for NEXT year this past summer. But there was solid reason to hope he'd get there. And his production so far this year certainly justifies the max he's getting next year. He'd have gotten the same contract this summer, but might have been salty that we made him sweat it out with the uncertainty of going into your final year, expected to be a franchise player, with no extension.

Well, is there the same reason to hope Monroe's production would justify a max deal next year?

I don't know. I think it's a safe bet his production would at least stop trending down. But Wittman's offense really doesn't seem to let bigs score inside, so maybe you wouldn't see a jump in Monroe's production despite the fact Wall is a massive upgrade at PG from Brandon Knight, Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, and Brandon Jennings.

Max offer for Monroe is 20% of our cap, which is a little more per year than Nene makes. I think you're right that we'd have to do something with Nene to sign Monroe. And I think that's a shame, because Nene would be a terrific big to pair with Monroe. Nene is a true glue player that operates very well with other offensive minded bigs. True bigs that prefer to operate around the basket. He boxes out. He's a gifted passer. He defends a range of opponents. He can take up space around the basket. He can draw defenders into space to clear the area around the basket.

Basically, Nene can do a lot of the skill stuff that Drummond can't. And it's not a coincidence that Monroe/Drummond lineups saw a big regression in Monroe's play. He doesn't operate well with Drummond.

That's why I think a change of scenery is key for Monroe. And I think a 23 year old nightly 16 & 10 guy could be huge for the Wall/Beal core. I don't see the move having as much upside as the Z Bo acquisition did for Memphis. But maybe the David West acquisition for Indy could be a good comparison?

Still, I don't see being able to actually acquire him as realistic.

Edited by stevemcqueen1
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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

There is absolutely no way to get Monroe in-season unless a) you trade Beal or B) Detroit is totally in love with Otto Porter for some reason. His contract is actually too low right now. It doesn't match up with any of the other trade chips - and I don't see Detroit wanting those in any case. And if they did get him, I don't think they'd have the space to sign him long-term.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted

Well Detroit has two sizable expirings in Villanueva and Stuckey. But those would be positive trade assets since they're expiring. They don't have any bad contracts except Josh Smith and I suppose Brandon Jennings.

The only thing we'd have to offer is Beal and that's a non starter. First off they have KCP. Second, I see Beal as a future All Star with years of team control left. Trading him for Monroe is a lateral move at best. Probably not a lateral move in the end.

So yeah, there's no trade here without Dumars taking a completely stupid deal. The way we get him is:

1.) Detroit doesn't trade him before the deadline.

2.) We clear a bunch of room to be able to sign a max deal in the summer and hope Detroit doesn't match.

And to get that kind of room, Ariza is gone for starters. Gortat is gone, which then makes trading that first round pick silly. Or if Gortat isn't gone, then Nene is gone.

I'm sure we do like Monroe and are exploring ways to acquire him in that we're examining whether or not it's theoretically possible. But it's not probable.

Couldn't DET just sign and trade him in the offseason for the best package? (Won't be the Wiz). I don't think we'll be able to outright sign him from DET. If they were smart, there is no way they let him walk away for free.

I think they changed the S&T rules. I'm not sure they're allowed any more. That's possibly why LA didn't S&T Dwight Howard to Houston.

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted

I wonder if Beal for Monroe makes more sense than either fan base is willing to admit?  I think we over rate Beal, I'm fairly certain that I do, because other than my questions about his defense (it's suspect) I think he's great.  Then I look at his numbers and I'm like "What?!  How?!  This must be wrong!"  Then I look at Monroe and I while I like the potential I'm not 100% sold that the guy is on the level with Beal.  In reading the SBNation page for the pistons however I see that they have the exact opposite perspective and thoughts on both players.  They think Beal is over rated and they are really high on Monroe.  

 

Having said all that I still don't think that deal makes sense for the Wizards because we have no other SG option and it makes no sense to create a whole only to sit either Nene or Gortat in order to make room for Monroe.  What I meant in the above was in terms of player value.  

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted

I wonder if Beal for Monroe makes more sense than either fan base is willing to admit?  I think we over rate Beal, I'm fairly certain that I do, because other than my questions about his defense (it's suspect) I think he's great.  Then I look at his numbers and I'm like "What?!  How?!  This must be wrong!"  Then I look at Monroe and I while I like the potential I'm not 100% sold that the guy is on the level with Beal.  In reading the SBNation page for the pistons however I see that they have the exact opposite perspective and thoughts on both players.  They think Beal is over rated and they are really high on Monroe.  

 

Having said all that I still don't think that deal makes sense for the Wizards because we have no other SG option and it makes no sense to create a whole only to sit either Nene or Gortat in order to make room for Monroe.  What I meant in the above was in terms of player value.  

 

 

 

Agreed. Also, if I look 2 years down the road I see Beal as being the more valuable chip. Light's-out long range shooting is something we can't afford to squander and I think he'll be Ray Allenish.

 

For the time being at least, we have Nene and Gortat. We can parlay one of them into future deals that could land us another good big man. I'll stick with a genuine SG.

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted

Beno has look terrible this year. Id rather just keep Temple at point.

 

Dude Garrett Temple is absolutely atrocious. 5.8 PER...a big part of why Beno sucks is because of how the Knicks have been using him. I don't want to hear the crap about his D...I'd rather have a guy who is somewhat capable of being a floor general. Something else to note is that Beno played very well after getting traded from the Bucks to the Magic this year. We could legitimately also play Udrih alongside wall as he did with Tyreke back in Sacramento

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Skin'emAlive

Skin'emAlive

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Tyreke is not Wall. They are not even close in style of play. Beno's best move is the transition pull up jumper from near the elbow; something that John is starting to do somewhat efficiently. We dont need that. We need someone who can either play like Wall himself (no one), someone who would come in and explode ( Nate Robinson), or someone who can play superb defense at a discount price. I say keep Temple and spend the money elsewhere.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10331818/2014-winter-forecast-most-improved-player-year

 

 

 

Should we be surprised that Wall is not even in consideration for this award? To my eyes, he's made huge leaps this season. I'm not saying he should get it, but I'm wondering if he should be on the table.

I don't think he's really improved that much because he was already pretty good last year. He's only up by 1.5 points and 0.9 assists from last year.

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted

Agreed. His growth, season to season and ESPECIALLY this season, has been obvious. And beyond numbers.

 

 

Big time. At the end of last season I was prepared to call him somewhat of a "bust" for lack of a better word. It's not that he was truly a bust as an NBA player at all. However, the Wizards drafted him to be the future of the franchise and I didn't feel he was even coming close to living up to that responsibility.

 

This season I see it. Dude is amazing right now. He's for real and he's just getting started.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

idk, you gotta watch how he plays.

He is a much better player this season than last.

No doubt. He has gotten better. But you know how it is on ESPN and all those kinda stats, they look more at numbers.

 

Wall won't be considered for most improved because his #s were already really good last year, and he's a former 1-1 pick so you expect him to be a stud. MIP usually goes to a guy who breaks out out of nowhere.

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