The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[@DCGoldPants]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Reports were that Beal was trying to challenge Wall for title of this being his team back in the day, with Beal finally blinking.  There's always a bigger fish in the ocean, but in this pond, those are the biggest and they don't try to hide it (part of the reason our player only meetings go so bad, you can be right but go about it in a wrong way and it be like you were never right to begin with).  If someone came here that could challenge that, they would challenge back at first, no telling how that would go (why I didn't want LeBron here, think Wall would rather leave then go through that).  This not to defend it, just an observation of what I believe is meant when that comment comes up, and its not the first time it has.

 

Meh. So Robin vs. Robin for who gets to wear Batman's Cowl. Don't care who won. 

 

I won't even get into who to trade for what because I don't want Ernie making another single roster move. 

 

 

[Renegade7]

The team and roster is built around Wall, you can't pop somebody else in there and expect different results, that's like putting the wrong engine in your car and expecting everything to be dandy, you aren't going anywhere.  There are very few PGs I think that would even be close to being possible, but its not working now, and we wouldn't be able to get them in a trade anyway.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Renegade7

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

Meh. So Robin vs. Robin for who gets to wear Batman's Cowl. Don't care who won. 

 

I won't even get into who to trade for what because I don't want Ernie making another single roster move. 

 

 

LeBron wouldn't be Batman, he'd be Superman coming in late and telling the Justice League what to do.  

 

Agreed on the not interested in trade talk until Ernie is gone stance.  It's fun to wish upon a star, but until it lands on that dude and we get another GM, I'm just enjoying ya'lls company when I need it most as a fan.  I always said if the Redskins couldn't turn me away, but this is different.

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I could see Riley being interested because Wall is an All Star. But Miami has nothing to give you back.

 

Cap relief and draft picks are the only things worth getting back for John.  Decent players would only make it harder to tank.  If Miami can give us that, I'd probably end up taking it.  I'd say yes to the kind of four first rounders deal that Houston offered MInny for Jimmy Butler even if I knew they might be late round picks.

 

But Ernie Grunfeld can't accept that kind of return for the same reason Thibs couldn't take the Rockets deal for Butler.  Only a new GM can productively trade Wall.

I would trade John to San Antonio for Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol and as many first round draft picks as I could get.  Rudy Gay is an expiring and Gasol expires next season.

[“Misdirection”]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

But Ernie Grunfeld can't accept that kind of return for the same reason Thibs couldn't take the Rockets deal for Butler.  Only a new GM can productively trade Wall.

 

Disagree. Ernie Grunfeld might be the only GM in the world with enough job security to actually see those picks through... even if they all turn into half season rentals of Bojan Bogdanivich's future children

[Llevron]

33 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

No offense, but this **** kills me.  It's such the loser Wizards mentality.  Scapegoating Wall for top down organizational failure.

 

No offense taken but you misunderstand me. When I say its Wall, I mean the person Beal has been "dealing with" for 7 seasons. 

 

I didn't mean wall was the sole problem. That's why I went on to say coaching and management. I literally named the organization from top down excluding the owner. 

 

I can see how you thought I meant just Wall though. 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Pretty sure you have to trade contracts for equal value, right?  Dwight is a steal, but there's no way to just get out of the money we owe Otto without replacing it with someone else's contract, which won't happen because no one wants to trade for Otto's contract.

 

The best thing would be for us to get rid of Ernie and replace him with someone that has the balls to get rid of Scott and try to save what we have this year.  Any attempt to blow this thing up midseason without doing those two things first window dressing, its pointless.

 

Agree. I dont know how the picks/cap works but if we can use any player to help the situation I'm pretty much down for it, I guess is what I was trying to say. 

[Llevron]

Also I dont think I have read a single person say trade Wall and we immediately get better. 

 

This is not the stadium. We ain't your average Redskins fan. Almsot everyone in here understands the game if basketball. If you have been a Wizards fan long enough to talk about them on a message bored you probably understand Wall is that team. We can move the conversation past that, I think. 

 

People thinking we should move Wall basically think it's time for a rebuild. We understand that means the team gets worse first. We also understand that the team has peaked with it's current group unless something drastic happens. 

[@DCGoldPants]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

LeBron wouldn't be Batman, he'd be Superman coming in late and telling the Justice League what to do.  

 

Agreed on the not interested in trade talk until Ernie is gone stance.  It's fun to wish upon a star, but until it lands on that dude and we get another GM, I'm just enjoying ya'lls company when I need it most as a fan.  I always said if the Redskins couldn't turn me away, but this is different.

 

I meant Wall and Beal fighting with each other over who is the leader of this team, when neither can really do it. 

 

 

[StillUnknown]

15 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

Disagree. Ernie Grunfeld might be the only GM in the world with enough job security to actually see those picks through... even if they all turn into half season rentals of Bojan Bogdanivich's future children

 

my god he's right

 

I've never played this card before, but if Grunfeld gets to tear down and rebuild again, I'm out. I'll finally watch more of the great product of the rest of the league that I have been neglecting while attempting to remain faithful to this sad sack of **** of a team

[Llevron]

And we have already established 

 

*All together now* 

 

Ernie is the problem. 

 

 

 

I dont think we have to assume anyone is blaming any one player or person more than him. That should be understood at this point. 

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Agree. I dont know how the picks/cap works but if we can use any player to help the situation I'm pretty much down for it, I guess is what I was trying to say. 

 

I feel you, and that's because the NBA cap works like quantum physics, **** can be in two places at the same time level complex and exceptions.  But know, from my many attempts to get out of the Otto contract, we're f'd in that regard, which is why I've tried to convince myself we're better off trying to save the ship instead of intentionally trying to sink it, but it just feels so futile watching them play lately.  I hate watching any of my teams act like they don't care.

[Barry.Randolphe]

6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

People thinking we should move Wall basically think it's time for a rebuild. We understand that means the team gets worse first. We also understand that the team has peaked with it's current group unless something drastic happens. 

 

I've been ready to move on from Grunfeld, and now I'm ready to move on from Wall and start a legit rebuild. We can still get good value for Wall before he falls off the inevitable cliff.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Barry.Randolphe

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

I meant Wall and Beal fighting with each other over who is the leader of this team, when neither can really do it. 

 

 

Ya, you lost me with your analogy when you started mentioning other players coming in and I was trying to keep up.  I still maintain Wall wants to be a leader but doesn't know how to do and no one here seems to be able to show him how to do it.  GD waste of potential, it really is.

[StillUnknown]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ya, you lost me with your analogy when you started mentioning other players coming in and I was trying to keep up.  I still maintain Wall wants to be a leader but doesn't know how to do and no one here seems to be able to show him how to do it.  GD waste of potential, it really is.

 

Organization ****ed him, and now they're positioning him to take the brunt of the fall, like so many before him

 

Leadership is developed, they handed Wall the title the moment he was drafted while supporting him with clowns. Wasted his formative developmental years with a coach who didn't dare to do anything remotely creative. Now bad habits have set in, and Wall seems to have hit a level of apathy, which is he is primarily to blame. I can deal with the regression in skill or lack of jumpshot though it may drive me crazy, but you cannot be getting supermax dollars and look like you would rather be anywhere else than on the court

 

I was listening to Michael Lee on the Wizards After Dark podcast and it was so depressing because of how sobering it was. Michael Lee knows this team, he was the beat reporter when they tore it down to the studs the last time. He sees absolutely no hope in the present construction. He said the team could probably scrape and "talent" themselves to a 7th or 8th seed but said he didn't think they would because the team would hate to play with each other for an additional 4 or 5 games.

 

if that isn't a damning indictment on a GM, I don't know what is.

 

and once again, "bloggers" say what the beat guys wont:

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

@StillUnknown  I can't use two smilies at the same time, so I chose laugh so I don't cry.  The bloggers in this town need to take over the local media perspective, when you watch NBC 4, Alex Smith going down was lead story, they NEVER talk about the Wizards, its like they don't even play here.  Ernie is getting away with murder because nobody is paying attention to the blood spatter on the walls outside a handful of people.

[StillUnknown]

 

[Hersh]

This is precisely why when Minnesota called, you just listen. Not that a trade would've been made with them but maybe a 3 team deal could've developed that gets the Wiz picks and an expiring deal. A realistic rebuild means getting out of Walls contract even if you don't get back much in the way of picks. Beal is the one that probably returns the most given his contract is better than Walls and Beal will fit with more teams. After that, you spend the next couple years trying to get Otto to rebuild his value as a player with hopes of maybe trading him. 

[RonArtest15]

Look, we know the roster is ****ed.  We know the players hate each other.  However, speaks VOLUMES when Ernie Grunfeld escapes any sort of criticism from guys like j. Michael, Buckner, etc.  At some point, the ire HAS to come from someone really plugged into the organization and not from only the die-hards on the message boards, etc.  

 

I honestly don't care.  I'll say this...if EG oversees the rebuild and Wall/Beal are traded, I'm 1000000% done with the Wizards.  DONE.  I'll jump ship to the Knicks.  I can only take so much as a fan.  There is no reason why he should outlast the players when he's the ONLY person responsible for the messes of this franchise over the past 15 years. 

[CRobi21]

Makes it sound like Beal is frustrated with the culture Ernie has established here.

Edited November 20, 2018 by CRobi21

[Destino]

9 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

I honestly don't care.  I'll say this...if EG oversees the rebuild and Wall/Beal are traded, I'm 1000000% done with the Wizards.  DONE.  I'll jump ship to the Knicks.  I can only take so much as a fan.  There is no reason why he should outlast the players when he's the ONLY person responsible for the messes of this franchise over the past 15 years. 

 

Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire...

 

bucks are 76ers are better eastern conference choices.  

[StillUnknown]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire...

 

bucks are 76ers are better eastern conference choices.  

 

feels dirty jumping on a team on the rise

 

gotta come out the mud with someone for it to feel somewhat real

[RonArtest15]

4 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire...

 

bucks are 76ers are better eastern conference choices.  

 

I lived there and my family knows the Ewing's....they suck, have bad ownership, but Wizards have just about lost me, man LOL

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, StillUnknown said:

 

feels dirty jumping on a team on the rise

 

gotta come out the mud with someone for it to feel somewhat real

Why I'd stay agnostic until and wait to see if Wizards ever figure it out.  They might never, so I'll keep an eye on Brad Stevens because of how much respect I have for him.  But be a Celtics fan? Never.

Just now, RonArtest15 said:

 

I lived there and my family knows the Ewing's....they suck, have bad ownership, but Wizards have just about lost me, man LOL

Sounds like your backyard team, I get that.

[RonArtest15]

Once EG goes, I'll come back...there isn't any good reason for him to outlast Beal/Wall AND oversee the rebuild. 

 

[Going Commando]

I'll follow Wall and Beal where ever they go if the Wizards keep Ernie and Brooks.  Not going to be a die-hard for anyone else, but I'll watch their games and pull for them.